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Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018
Worm castings (1-0-0) slow release 150g/sq ft
I found it here.N-P-K Value of Everything
Great link otter! For this convo we also need the type of nitrogen since one causes pH to rise over time and the other causes a downward shift.
Shed for helping me out with the blueberry growing!
:thanks: for having that conversation with Doc and posting it here. It's great info. And I would love to be able to grow blueberries. We eat them all the time! You grow down there and I'll grow vicariously up here :).
Insert Bookmark here. Thanks everybody. Such information. Now I have to digest it. OYE
This turned out to be the exact thread I intended when I created it, all because of this great gang of curious thinkers! Like otter said, thanks!
 

stoneotter

Well-Known Member
Great link otter! For this convo we also need the type of nitrogen since one causes pH to rise over time and the other causes a downward shift.

:thanks: for having that conversation with Doc and posting it here. It's great info. And I would love to be able to grow blueberries. We eat them all the time! You grow down there and I'll grow vicariously up here :).

This turned out to be the exact thread I intended when I created it, all because of this great gang of curious thinkers! Like otter said, thanks!
Nice! So Shed. Do you understand the concept enough to put a very short summary together? I understand little of what I read, and I was riveted. You have thought much more on soil than I at this juncture.:oops: If I design an organic soil for me, I need to account for the plants needs through its life including the ph of the soil when it's ready to use and beyond.o_O Using proper organic materials creates an environment that wants to keep its balance of ph.:eek: During the life of a plant if I water without phing things are fine with exceptions. Like prolonged use of extreme hi or lo ph or many other things maybe? Prolonged use being the point.
Is any of that close? I'm wondering about store bought soil. ?? Good topic
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018
You have thought much more on soil than I at this juncture
Excellent English :high-five:.

I'm not sure I can speak to designing an organic soil except to say that most recipes include buffers like dolomite lime or sulfur that will help maintain the pH of the medium over time. That said, my takeaway from this (which does not apply to what Doc calls "hydro and sterile mediums") is that the key is the pH of the medium, not the nutrients we pour in. The pH of the medium can change over time (even HB and LOS) due to the alkalinity of the water we use. High alkaline water will raise the pH over time even if you don't use synthetic nutrients. And the source of the nitrogen in our nutrients (and even our EWCs it seems) can change the pH over time.

pH testing of the substrate is what should be done if you are seeing an imbalance in your plants, not ph testing the nutrients.

I think I got that right but I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed something!
 

stoneotter

Well-Known Member
Excellent English :high-five:.

I'm not sure I can speak to designing an organic soil except to say that most recipes include buffers like dolomite lime or sulfur that will help maintain the pH of the medium over time. That said, my takeaway from this (which does not apply to what Doc calls "hydro and sterile mediums") is that the key is the pH of the medium, not the nutrients we pour in. The pH of the medium can change over time (even HB and LOS) due to the alkalinity of the water we use. High alkaline water will raise the pH over time even if you don't use synthetic nutrients. And the source of the nitrogen in our nutrients (and even our EWCs it seems) can change the pH over time.

pH testing of the substrate is what should be done if you are seeing an imbalance in your plants, not ph testing the nutrients.

I think I got that right but I'm sure someone will correct me if I missed something!
I was mocking one of our grand leaders at the juncture. Ok. How am I going to put this to work for my plants is my question now I guess? If you don't mix your own soil what good is this knowledge? Sorry I feel like a stump, I'm not getting a big part of this whole concept . Am I wrong in thinking that if I use a bought bagged soil it's either made well or not? By the time I'm using it I really don't know if it's been built right and what am I to do but be cautious and ph my nuted water?
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018
Bagged soil or made soil (or soil-less like ProMix), the key is that the alkalinity of the water and the source of the nitrogen in our nutrients (if we're using them) will cause the pH of the medium to rise or fall over time, possibly into a range beyond which our plants can no longer uptake certain nutrients from that medium.

Is that clearer?
 

stoneotter

Well-Known Member
Bagged soil or made soil (or soil-less like ProMix), the key is that the alkalinity of the water and the source of the nitrogen in our nutrients (if we're using them) will cause the pH of the medium to rise or fall over time, possibly into a range beyond which our plants can no longer uptake certain nutrients from that medium.

Is that clearer?
Yes
 

stoneotter

Well-Known Member
Bagged soil or made soil (or soil-less like ProMix), the key is that the alkalinity of the water and the source of the nitrogen in our nutrients (if we're using them) will cause the pH of the medium to rise or fall over time, possibly into a range beyond which our plants can no longer uptake certain nutrients from that medium.

Is that clearer?
I want to believe. I do believe. When I figure what that is in my garden I'll let you know. Whew Shed I'm glad I found this Thread. I'm positive I don't know exactly why but I know there's importance here. Thanks for your energy.
 

Archiweedies

Nug of the Month: Apr 2019
So I did ask Doc
Nice thanks AG! Thats great info there to an already great thread
@stoneotter Ive used Fox Farms Ocean Forest, Roots Organic (707?), and now Mother Earth Groundswell all with non ph'ed RO water. Try an auto out for yourself or something sometime for science!
 

stoneotter

Well-Known Member
Nice thanks AG! Thats great info there to an already great thread
@stoneotter Ive used Fox Farms Ocean Forest, Roots Organic (707?), and now Mother Earth Groundswell all with non ph'ed RO water. Try an auto out for yourself or something sometime for science!
Hehe. I'm going to have to one day. I remember using roots organic on my first grow. It was a nightmare of suffering plants. I didn't own a ph pen. Maybe it was the fungus gnat infestation or me not able to read the plants other needs. Even though after I mix nutes and they ph at 5.1 I'm going to feed this and they will be able to make use of it?
 

Archiweedies

Nug of the Month: Apr 2019
Hehe. I'm going to have to one day. I remember using roots organic on my first grow. It was a nightmare of suffering plants. I didn't own a ph pen. Maybe it was the fungus gnat infestation or me not able to read the plants other needs. Even though after I mix nutes and they ph at 5.1 I'm going to feed this and they will be able to make use of it?
If your in a properly built soil the answer appears to be yes :)
 

Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018
I use FFOF with a little added oyster shell, dolomite lime. Don't PH at all and my plants are flawless. My nutes solution is low 4's . Depending on time of year my water from tap ranges from 6.7 to 7.4 with 150ppm.
I don't use any of the forms of nitro discussed here so maybe that has a part of it. Been a great thread n got people researching n discussing ! I personally don't have much to offer on the topic but thoroughly enjoyed reading n following along . Keep up the good work everyone!
 

MotaFina

Well-Known Member
My takeaway from this is that folks need to know the alkalinity of their source water and adjust the ratio of ammoniacal nitrogen to nitrate in their fertilizer accordingly, or they'll risk pH swings in the substrate. My municipality shows 55 ppm alkalinity, which is low, so I need to make sure my nutrients are primarily nitrate based. Hopefully I'm understanding??
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018

Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018
It's the type of nitrogen that's important, so nitrate-based ones will cause the pH of the substrate to rise over time, whereas ammonium based nitrogen will cause it to fall.
What if you use neither though? Can't find any info about soy protein hydroslate other than it has extra carbon element compared to nitrates and ammonium / urea.
I'm not having any issues but it'd be good to know.
 
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