Medical Grow

[Doc Bud]

Coco can be a little tricky if you do not understand its cation exchange properties. It has an affinity for Mg and more so for Ca. Ca & Mg can be managed more easily with ph and light supplementation. Coco is not for everyone but for those that understand the CEC coco is pretty much the ideal medium. Thorough rinsing and pre-charging coco before using it are essential. It is probably the most eco friendly medium as well.

Doc, you seem to have a better sense for how to grow in soil - glad to see you won't be using coco again.

I might try it again someday. In the meantime, i'm happy with soil and hempy.

I tell you what....the grow room smell amazing! Much more smell than with perlite hempy's.

 

[slimm]

Some people stick with coco until they learn it's idiosyncrasies because it is unique among media in that it's water retention/aeration properties are
singularly excellent.

Coco growers who learn to work with it seem to never go back to anything else.

I'm not at all discouraged by the issues I've had with it, because there is a learning curve and I'm willing to put the effort into it.

The fact that many growers have learned to use it successfully and with better results than they've had with previous media, means to me that it's a viable product that takes a bit more effort to learn to use, but again, I'm willing to put the footwork in.

Until I learn to use it, however, I won't be using it exclusively.

My issues with coco are due to my lack of experience with it, and not anything fundamentally wrong with coco.

I do, however, completely respect yoiur decision to abandon it, as we all have different perspectives and needs.

For me, the reason coco has lost a bit of it's appeal is that apparently it gives the best results by being watered more frequently than soil, and decreased watering frequency with near-hydro growth and yield was it's main attraction for me.

If I have to water it more frequently than soil to get significantly better results than soil, it's of no use to me, but I'll have to do a few grows with it first to determine that.

It's best defense is that a significant number of commercial nursery growers have made the switch, and, of course, all the pics on the Internet of huge and beautiful cannabis plants grown in it.

SS,

It's best defense is that I love using it and it works well for me =) It is true that coco gives better results when used hydroponically. But that is true of hydroponics in general - growth rate is better than soil. I do not think that you can make the logical leap that it performs worse than other media if watered conventionally. In that case it still performs as well as, if not better than soil.

Take a look at orchid bark if you like coco but do not like its affinity for Ca and Mg.

 

[SnowBender]

Take a look at orchid bark if you like coco but do not like its affinity for Ca and Mg.

Nice tip!



I bet it wont be long till someone figures out how to precharge rinsed coco and sell it in bags....

or scotts makes a coco version of OC+ with all the mg and cal needed.

 

[slimm]

BTW, I just want to air some thoughts I never got to finish in an earlier exchange with DocBud. Doc, I reacted to your statement that good nutrition is how good flavor and aroma are achieved. My point was that I do not believe that there is necessarily a positive relationship between good nutrition and the flavor / aroma of the finished product. As far as I know, it's all conjecture at this point. I can point out some interesting facts that will serve as food for thought.

It has been found that by denying water to various crops, that taste can be improved - wine grapes and dry farmed tomatoes are examples of this. Often the most healthy thing for the organism is not what will not result in the best experience for the consumer. Otherwise, stronger free range veal would be superior in taste to, the less fit, conventionally raised veal. Great foi gras can only be achieved through force feeding geese with large amounts of food. This can hardly be considered good nutrition for the goose.

There are anecdotal reports that organically grown cannabis has superior flavor and aroma. I believe it, but I'm interested in what is really going on there. I believe there is an organic process that is contributing to these properties but it is more complicated than "good nutrition". We already know how to make cannabis produce more trichomes, through environmental stressors, regardless of the plant's nutritional state so it stands to reason that aroma and taste may be similarly manipulated.

This is all conjecture on my part - I would love to hear any other facts and opinions on the subject.

 

[slimm]

Nice tip!



I bet it wont be long till someone figures out how to precharge rinsed coco and sell it in bags....

or scotts makes a coco version of OC+ with all the mg and cal needed.

It's already been done. Canna comes fully rinsed but not charged. I'm sure Miracle Grow coco would come fully charged with some crappy nutrients. I would not want it charged by anyone but myself. Charging it is easy - fertilize with no plants and let it sit to dry.

 

[slimm]

I might try it again someday. In the meantime, i'm happy with soil and hempy.

I tell you what....the grow room smell amazing! Much more smell than with perlite hempy's.

Yeah I know Doc, you are making me envious. However I am determined to figure out what it is that does this and incorporate that into my coco grows.

 

[Grower Z]

Nice tip!



I bet it wont be long till someone figures out how to precharge rinsed coco and sell it in bags....

or scotts makes a coco version of OC+ with all the mg and cal needed.

I think the Canna coco is, but it's hard to find in the US. Around here I can only get coco in bricks. One of them is the Sunleaves Peace Coir, of which I may have purchased a bad batch cause it wrecked havoc. And the other one is way too fine. Bcuzz is another very good one if you can find that, just as good as Canna.

 

[Doc Bud]

Great discussion guys.

I was being a little negative....I don't like coco, because I don't know how to grow with it. Soil is quite easy to understand, imo. You just have to play around a bit and find one that works really well in your environment.

BTW, at about 6:15 my wife and I had a few hits of some really fine Flo, and went to a yoga class. She's all into it...been doing it for a while. It was my first formal yoga class....best thing ever!

Flo charges you up....makes you want to do stuff....the yoga is perfect! I highly recommend it.

 

[SnowBender]

im aware of the rinsed stuff... just saying it wont be long till its good to go with cal/mg, right out of the brick/bag. thus eliminating the coco learning curve.

i guess thats one good thing about the 'free market' economy.

 

[Doc Bud]

im aware of the rinsed stuff... just saying it wont be long till its good to go with cal/mg, right out of the brick/bag. thus eliminating the coco learning curve.

i guess thats one good thing about the 'free market' economy.

Yep. Kinda like premium soil. Good to go out of the bag.

 

[Setting Sun]

Roots organics potting soil is coco based and good to go right out of the bag.

 

[Doc Bud]

Roots organics potting soil is coco based and good to go right out of the bag.

Yep. But there's much more in it that just coco. The stuff I'm using has more coco than I wish it had. The stuff I'm using is just coco, worm casting, glacial rock dust and mycorhyzal cultures.

If I'm not mistaken, Roots has a good deal of peat in it.

 

[MountainHigh]

Roots organics potting soil is coco based and good to go right out of the bag.

I really like it too...so I second that. Has a better smell, feel and ease of working with than the FFOF did...and they add thistle...while maybe a great source of something, thistle makes handling your soil a slightly negative experience with the tiny little pokers....

Just bought another bag of Roots this morning...funny story, couple months ago I asked my local Garden Center if they had any and they said no and I told them they should get some...he looked it up and said he might but doubted it (supported FFOF) as they had to order a whole pallet...my "Organic's" store I have been going to and supporting (til now probably) as a startup business carries Roots...well the clerk/wife has a horrid attitude and comes in when she wants.

Well at 11:30 this morning, the store was still closed (stoners obviously) and wanted to get my soil percolating with my bene's (have to plant in 3-4 weeks), I begrudgingly opted for FFOF and went to the local Garden Center I prefer anyway, and lo and behold...holding the door open is a stack of Roots Organic...How fortunate for me! (Happy Ending)

 

[Supernova]

I love your set up! Perhaps one day I can have a epic set up such as yours. And your plants... don't get me started on those plants... just too godly.

 

[Velodrone]

Doc, I just saw those last shots. They look good, really good. Even with the MG issues. +rep brother.

 

[Doc Bud]

I love your set up! Perhaps one day I can have a epic set up such as yours. And your plants... don't get me started on those plants... just too godly.

Thanks bro!
I'm a perfectionist....in a positive way. I'm always looking to do better. Keep checking in....the next grow will get underway as the first plants are harvested...3 weeks or so from now.

I'll be avoiding coco for the forseeable future, so the plants under my care should do even better.

My challenge for today is to untangle and stake up the rest of the buds. They're getting bigger, and the plants can't hold them up anymore.

Doc, I just saw those last shots. They look good, really good. Even with the MG issues. +rep brother.

Thanks bro.....there is plenty of green left on those plants to take them all the way....I just don't like making mistakes that result in classic deficiencies....there's no excuse for that.

Hopefully, it won't happen again.

 

[Munki]

I disagree that there is no excuse for deficiencies in your case. You have been working with a new medium along with all else that is new in your garden. The essence of learning is to try new things; with that will come mistakes.

Grant yourself the pleasure of being human, Doc!

 

[CaneyeBus]

The babies look spectacular as always Doc!!!






"Keep It Green & Keep Toking"

 

[slimm]

im aware of the rinsed stuff... just saying it wont be long till its good to go with cal/mg, right out of the brick/bag. thus eliminating the coco learning curve.

i guess thats one good thing about the 'free market' economy.

I see your point SnowBender. However, pre-charging won't solve that problem for you. Eventually you will bump into the coco CEC. But it is easy to manage by manipulating the ph, not just supplementation. Anyway, I won't post more on this since this more of a soil thread now. I have posted somewhere on this site on how this is done; look for a quote from knna in my post.

 

[Grower Z]

I think Knna is wrong about that, considering what we know about Total alkalinity vs water pH in terms of the affect on substrate pH and the research from Bill Argo on CEC in containers.

I have honestly never seen anything like what is going on Doc's garden with that coco plant. My only problem with coco is not being able to locally find a good product locally. Otherwise, it's great if you want a reusable and easily disposable medium. The Sunleaves peace coir that I had a problem with created instant nitrogen deficiencies - not anything related to Ca or Mg. Nitrogen drawdown is what it's called and it was probably caused by the coco not being fully decomposed...

Someone else said:

It is probably the most eco friendly medium as well.

I don't know about that. It's moved from Sri Lanka, India and the Phillipines on cargo ships to California, Canada, European ports, etc. and than moved across countries on planes, trains and trucks?