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Dramatic Change In my Plants Health!? Please Input Needed!

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
Plants are in 4th week veg. Im planning on doing a 2 month veg cycle. I just got a MH/HPS lamp 400w. Switching from a T5 HO 4bulb, was also using other lights. My plants was nice and perky before switching lighting. Ill show before and after picks. I watered 2 days ago using 4ml Grow and other additives. Also foilor feeding a couple times a day. The one plant which is plant #2 is holding water in its pot. Medium consist of dehydrated compost and manure, peat moss, perlite, and soil. Plant #1 is coco coir/soil. Im also wondering could be from the light source being switched? These changes happened in a hour frame period. Please Help! :Namaste:

Before pics of PLANT #1


Before pics of PLANT #2


PLANT #1 AFTER Its showing signs of Zinc, Manganese, Nickel and maybe sulfur/ which Im using all purpose to foilor feed. Notice how it droops now. Theres also some pale coloring on the new growth


PLANT #2 AFTER. It showing signs of Zinc, Manganese which I am foilar feeding using all purpose to solve problem. The tight nodes is a sure sign of zinc def.



My next move will be to switch into a new soil. I dont want to move to fast this is the reason why im looking to 420 for input. Thanks
 

Jimmycricket

Nug of the Month: Feb 2014
You dont need new soil. Eventually you can upgrade to a bigger pot and the soil in that can be a little richer, but for now keep your soil.

Azomite would work well as it is like a multivitamin for plants.

Also check the soils PH it might not be that some minerals are deficient they may just be locked out. A good range for soil is to fluctuate between 6.0-7.0 if you can keep it right around 6.5 mostly then that is spot on.

I certainly see sulfur deficiency. But we got to check the PH first before the true reason for it being deficient is revealed.
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
I really appreciate you helping me out on this Jimmy. How would I check the PH of the soil? The PH soil tester I have sucks. It doesnt move past 7. And I would have to order the soil tablets offline we dont carry them in my stores out here. Seriously you think I would need bigger pots? I thought I would be able to finish the grow in 3-5 gallon pots? I wanted to get those air pots any way. What do you think about the dramatic change though? What couldve caused it? Plant #2 pot still has alot of weight to it and I read that nickel def is from over watering and if the soil retains alot of moister.

But its weird, I watered them 2 days ago and there now showing these PH signs and it start happening when I switched lights. And if switching soil is out of the equation then what about flushing? But that will cause more water to be in the root zone. 2 inches into the soil is bone dry. Maybe even 4. I dont think the roots have any oxygen getting to them. But back to this PH, what would be the best way to go about this with no soil PH tester or tablets?
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
I just figured if my def. are correct my soil PH is 8.0 Thats where manganese, zinc and others get locked out. But can you lockout your leaves from foilar spraying? Also Manganese gets locked out from dry weather. Its been pretty dry in my tent. I got the humidity back up to 50%. Sulfur gets absorbed best at 6.0 and up. So thats why I think it may have to do with me foilar feeding. Also it says use epsom salt to fix sulfur def,
Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, MgSO4, and so contains magnesium, sulfur, and oxygen. So that should work misting or should I water with it?

And if thats not the case it would be due to over fertilizing. Which I highly doubt. But could be holding to much water
 

Jimmycricket

Nug of the Month: Feb 2014
What is the soil can ya give me percentages?

As for testing soil I just use one of those 5 dollar gizmos from Homie Ds. They do work, you just need to leave them in the soil for a good 5-10 mins, also is best if the soil is either wet or at least slightly damp. The bottom of the probes need a tiny bit of moisture to work right.
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
I can take a guest , so its about 40% organic soil with peat moss, processed pine bark, composted forest products, rice hulls, ground dolomitic limestones ph adjuster, 30% dehydrated manure and compost, 30% perlite. Maybe more of the perlite then what I stated

Ill stick the PH prob in there for 5-10 minutes to see if i get a good reading

OK so PLANT #2 soil is 5.5-5.8 right now. I guess I got it to go down but maybe to low.

Ok back with more info, Zinc is the issue and not sulfur. And if there really is a sulfur def then its not the main issue. Zinc gets locked out of soils when the PH is to high and to much phosphorus levels and lack of nitrogen. If you look at the pictures the lower level of leaves are turning yellow on both plants and also I was scared to feed full strength grow. PH on plant #2 is 5.0-6.0 so If that was truely the issue it will be fixed with in a week on top of me foilar feeding with all purpose added with epsom salt. The other 2 plants are light green showing signs of lack of nitrogen so im going to feed them full strength grow and also add PH down to soil just incase I was slightly wrong about the lack of nitrogen. Of course ontop of foilor feeding twice a day.
 

Jimmycricket

Nug of the Month: Feb 2014
PH below 6, well really below 6.2 is bad for soil. However if you just fed it, then that PH might go up some in a few hours or a day.

Soil stablizers like sulfur and lime do work best when mixed well and evenly into the soil. However they will work just dressed across the topsoil too.
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
Yea I have organic PH up lime and PH down sulfur. Plant#2 got worse, its starting to wither. I just fixed the PH I didnt give that any Grow. Its lights out for them right now so I have to wait until the a.m. to upload pictures. It seems to be getting real dry and withery. Hopefully it perks up with the morning light wait up call.
 

Smokemupm8

New Member
Hey WizHigh:)
Your girls are looking pretty good!! Apart from maybe a PH problem, the rest of how she s growing seemed ok.
I am experiencing possible PH drama s myself. My PH is at about 6.3/4, which ive grown plants well in before without any probs, but it seems i may need to raise my PH a bit more to around 6.6, as according to a chart in my journal, that is where you 'should' be PH wise for the plant to properly intake its nutrients from the soil..
My girl is well into flower, and after Fungus Gnat probs and possible over feeding, my soil is up to shit, and Cindy - my plant - is showing signs of deficiency(s) and im trying to treat them but it seems like nothing is helping.. The only thing ive not tried to give her as yet is Maganese, the symptoms of this Defic. look similar to what im copping??
Just about switching your light, as long as its not really close and causing bleaching or direct burn, you should be ok, it may take the plant a day or so to adjust to the light, but overall they should be fine. I try to have a fan blowing between the globe and plant top.
But yeah anyways, a 5 gallon pot should be fine mate!:thumb: Just dont veg as long as me ( 8.5 weeks ) unless you got room, im crowded!!
Your soil mix may be at hand also, i was just checking a post before and he had composted manure and stuff in his mix, it may be worth looking into to see what exactly youre using as a soil.. Some soil s are totally organic, and they have beneficial microbes,bacteria for your plant..I use a bit of Pea straw mulch,sand, slow release fert - Not too strong - and I use a Humus soil that actively has N,P,K in it as it breaks down over time.. Its a good soil, I had soil-mites galore for a while, before FUNGUS GNATS INVADED AND TOOK OVER:(
Sorry im not able to say mate hit it with this and your probs are over - but youve been steered in the right direction by the guys on here, maybe a quick flush and then start with light nutes later?? Hope all sorts out soon, and as she s still young, IM TIPPING THEY WILL BE FINE:thumb::Namaste: Smokemupm8..
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
Thanks SmokEmUp! Yea Jimmy Crickets good help. Theyve adjusted to the light, and plant #2 perked back up. All is well just the zinc issue with iron def is what im waiting on the results by the end of the week. PH is 6.5 Ill check again later today or tomorrow. I dont want to keep poking my soil hitting roots.

The reason why im vegging for another full month is I just got this rhino skin and I want to use that to its full potential. And when I do put it into flower my 3rd plant would have caught up to the other 2. I rather put 3 in the flower room vs 2 and then end up having to put a 3rd one in and that will throw off timing because hen the others are done flowering then i would be wasting light on 1 plant instead of having a continues cycle of 3 or 4 plants flowering

But it wasnt the PH after all it was lack of nitrogen that caused all of the problems. More pics that will put this problem in stone.

All of the plants after a good water yesterday. Only PLANT#1-3 got 4ml of grow added to them. As you can see there not so yellow any more, Well atleast on PLANT#1


PLANT #3 2 days ago I F.I.M. her. Light green leaves showing lack of nitrogen.


PLANT #2 Light green/yellow leaves on lower half and also showing tight bunches of leaves at the new growth. I just fixed the PH didnt give grow. I shouldve but the question now is should I just wait until next feeding to give grow or should I flush it now using half stregnth even though I just watered yesterday?

Pictures a bit fuzzy but zinc def from lack of nitrogen.

I cut the dead fan leaves off



I added Grow to my spray bottle to foliar feed them until results come in
 

Smokemupm8

New Member
Nice save there mate!!
Glad your PH is stable atm @ 6.5.. I managed to raise my PH to 6.7/8, so now my girl should be able to intake her nutes:):)
Good you were able to locate the Defic. and get it sorted!!
I am trying to keep Cindy in check til i flush her in a couple days, and hoping she will be ok til then.. And then i should be able pull her with some nice buds awaiting to chop chop chop and hang these 2ft stacks up to dry:):) Am keen on toking them!!
I dont know if this burning will spread any further now that the PH is at 6.7, but im hoping so:):)
Her buds are coming along well, pistils in percentage are about 60% orange, and trichs heads are cloudy, with a few clear stalks.. NO AMBERS AS YET THAT I CAN SEE, BUT HOPING TO HAVE SOME IN THE NXT WEEK OR SO..
Im not sure what exactly is at fault with my girl and im glad you were able to sort ur prob out without any harm!
Have a good one mate, and hope all goes well.. Smokemup..
 

WizHigh

Member of the Month: Dec 2012
Thanks SmokemUp. Also the soil I was using for PLANT #2 & 1 sucked. It held to much water. The top would dry out quick but a week later the water would still be at the bottom weighing down the pot.

Is Cindy in your journal thats active now? And do you have pics of the deficiency on there? Im headed over to your journal now. If there not up you should Upload some pics with the deficiency and let me take a look at them. Message me or something to let me know if you upload them. I would like to help the best way I can if you dont mind
 

Smokemupm8

New Member
Hey Wizzy..
Yeah Cindy is the only plant in my journal atm, at seedling stage she had a twin, but i culled it as Cindy was more responsive growth wise..
I have a few pics of the drama s at hand, and yes, some does appear to be her finishing up, but trust me, she s either getting not enough of something or too much maybe?? As the damage looks like a cross of cal/mag defic., Boron or maybe Potassium?? Or due to the lower PH it may be a combo of them all, so now she s at 6.7 hoping it will help her feed?
Here s a couple of pics, some of the sugar leaves among the bud and a pic of just the general damaged area ok..

This last pic looks like a natural yellowing but the rusty pattern damage is what is my concern.. I was told to leave them on as they will provide a type of filter between buds, but i wanna chop em all off!! Probably not a smart move but its tempting...
See what you reckon about my situation.. Do you think that its a better idea to maybe take her down a few days early if its going to stop any further buds from going crispy? MY 600w HPS may be a part of the prob, as i ran a 400w last grows and havent had these problems. But i had to battle fungus gnats this time, and their numbers must have been nearly Volitile and causing more damage than id anticipated..
Ok mate, enough of my dribble:) Have a good one and chat soon.. SMOKEMUP $ CINDY...
 
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