Drooping leaves, and it's probably not overwatering

[Tayyar]

Hey 420 family. I'm back with my fourth grow, and I'm encountering some issues I'm trying to figure out. Here are the facts:

Strain: OG Kush feminized
Light: 240W LM301H
Medium: Coco with 50% perlite in a 28 liter (6 gallon) air bucket
Method of growing: Manifolding to 12 branches
Time in veg: 2 months so far
Temp/Humid: 25C (77F) in 50%-60% in tent, 20-22C in 50%-60% before the move to the tent.
Nutrients: GHE Trio + Silica 0-0-4 + CalMag, going to switch over to Advanced Nutrients full lineup with Sensi + additives during flowering.
Almost always PH balance my water to 6, EC values started from 0, and gradually went up to 1.1 the last feeding.
Feeding in the order of Silica, Calmag, Micro, Gro, Bloom.

I manifolded this girl to 12 arms under 60W LM301H chips, waited to see her healthy response between each topping. Fed her perfectly with PH balanced R/O water, alternating between using just H2O, just Calmag, and Calmag + Nutes, no signs of deficiency, overwatering, or underwatering at any stage.

After the last topping, I waited till it grew 2 sets of fan leaves on each stem, then trimmed the lower growth and waited for another week before she recovered, gave her the appropriate amount of nutes in 2.5l of water (2/3 gallon).

And then another feeding at 2.5l 3 days later with only silica (I started giving her silica after week 5 of veg). I noticed some water pushing out of the edges of fan leaves, and topped stems of the plant about an hour after the feeding. This left some white residue on the edges, so I wiped them off gently with a slightly wet fiber cloth. This is the first time I encountered something like this so I thought it was interesting.

Then two days after the last feeding, I moved it under the 240w in my tent. On Sunday 11/21.

On 11/22, I watered her with 5 ml of silica in 4 liters of water (1 gallon), ph balanced it to 6.0, then fed her (3 days after the last feeding). I'm planning to strengthen her up, lower the veg nutes, then move onto flowering 12/1ish.

The day after the feeding, the leaves started drooping. All of them. At first I thought giving her a gallon of water at once for the first time coupled with moving under a new and more powerful light, a new room, and two feedings of no nutes were a bit too much on her. I always check the ph and ec before and after feedings to make sure there aren't any lockouts going on. The reading I got from that 1 gallon feeding was the same if not just slightly lower than what I fed her(0.18EC/6PH) at 0.15EC/5.94PH.

Just as a precaution, and to eliminate the risk of overwatering, I stopped watering her for a few days, weighed the bucket to see if it was lightening down, and it was.

Yesterday the lower leaves seemed to be back up and running, but the top growth was still stunned.

Today I decided to feed her some Advanced Nutrients nutes.
2ml of Rhino Skin
2ml of Dr Marijane dilution
2ml of CalMag
2ml of B-52
2ml of Sensi Grow A
2ml of Sensi Grow B
All in 2.5 liters of water. Ph'd it to 6, EC reading at 0.7. After feeding, the water that came out of the bottom was about 200ml, and the readings were: PH 5.94, EC at 0.65. The lower leaves are looking good, but the top growth is still stunned and lighter green. This makes me think it might also be moving under a powerful light with 12 stems requiring more nutrients, and the fact that the first of the last 3 feedings were low EC, and the last one was 0.7 as a precaution, and this as a whole is causing the plant to have some deficiency. What do you guys think?

Could you guys help me with what might be going wrong? I'd appreciate the help, thank you!

Look at that marvelous structure tho

 

[Bill284]

Hey 420 family. I'm back with my fourth grow, and I'm encountering some issues I'm trying to figure out. Here are the facts:

Strain: OG Kush feminized
Light: 240W LM301H
Medium: Coco with 50% perlite in a 28 liter (6 gallon) air bucket
Method of growing: Manifolding to 12 branches
Time in veg: 2 months so far
Temp/Humid: 25C (77F) in 50%-60% in tent, 20-22C in 50%-60% before the move to the tent.
Nutrients: GHE Trio + Silica 0-0-4 + CalMag, going to switch over to Advanced Nutrients full lineup with Sensi + additives during flowering.
Almost always PH balance my water to 6, EC values started from 0, and gradually went up to 1.1 the last feeding.
Feeding in the order of Silica, Calmag, Micro, Gro, Bloom.

I manifolded this girl to 12 arms under 60W LM301H chips, waited to see her healthy response between each topping. Fed her perfectly with PH balanced R/O water, alternating between using just H2O, just Calmag, and Calmag + Nutes, no signs of deficiency, overwatering, or underwatering at any stage.

After the last topping, I waited till it grew 2 sets of fan leaves on each stem, then trimmed the lower growth and waited for another week before she recovered, gave her the appropriate amount of nutes in 2.5l of water (2/3 gallon).

And then another feeding at 2.5l 3 days later with only silica (I started giving her silica after week 5 of veg). I noticed some water pushing out of the edges of fan leaves, and topped stems of the plant about an hour after the feeding. This left some white residue on the edges, so I wiped them off gently with a slightly wet fiber cloth. This is the first time I encountered something like this so I thought it was interesting.

Then two days after the last feeding, I moved it under the 240w in my tent. On Sunday 11/21.

On 11/22, I watered her with 5 ml of silica in 4 liters of water (1 gallon), ph balanced it to 6.0, then fed her (3 days after the last feeding). I'm planning to strengthen her up, lower the veg nutes, then move onto flowering 12/1ish.

The day after the feeding, the leaves started drooping. All of them. At first I thought giving her a gallon of water at once for the first time coupled with moving under a new and more powerful light, a new room, and two feedings of no nutes were a bit too much on her. I always check the ph and ec before and after feedings to make sure there aren't any lockouts going on. The reading I got from that 1 gallon feeding was the same if not just slightly lower than what I fed her(0.18EC/6PH) at 0.15EC/5.94PH.

Just as a precaution, and to eliminate the risk of overwatering, I stopped watering her for a few days, weighed the bucket to see if it was lightening down, and it was.

Yesterday the lower leaves seemed to be back up and running, but the top growth was still stunned.

Today I decided to feed her some Advanced Nutrients nutes.
2ml of Rhino Skin
2ml of Dr Marijane dilution
2ml of CalMag
2ml of B-52
2ml of Sensi Grow A
2ml of Sensi Grow B
All in 2.5 liters of water. Ph'd it to 6, EC reading at 0.7. After feeding, the water that came out of the bottom was about 200ml, and the readings were: PH 5.94, EC at 0.65. The lower leaves are looking good, but the top growth is still stunned and lighter green. This makes me think it might also be moving under a powerful light with 12 stems requiring more nutrients, and the fact that the first of the last 3 feedings were low EC, and the last one was 0.7 as a precaution, and this as a whole is causing the plant to have some deficiency. What do you guys think?

Could you guys help me with what might be going wrong? I'd appreciate the help, thank you!

Look at that marvelous structure tho

Hello @Tayyar Beautiful garden my friend.
Coco should be fed at 5.8 exactly every time.
Feed every day until you get runoff.
Also do you have a schedule for your nutrients?
Are you following it?
EC .7 is way too low they are starving.
Depending on what chart you use you should be closer to 2.0, 900 to 1200 ppm depending on water quality.
Use calmag every feed, put it into your mix first.
Did you mention temp & rh ?
80 f and under 60rh is your target with lots of air flow.

Stay Safe
Bill

 

[Tayyar]

Hello @Tayyar Beautiful garden my friend.
Coco should be fed at 5.8 exactly every time.
Also do you have a schedule for your nutrients?
Are you following it?
EC .7 is wat too low they are starving.
Depending on what chart you use you should be closer to 2.0, 900 to 1200 ppm depending on water quality.

I'll lover my PH to 5.8

I have a schedule and I'm following it! I worked my way up from 0 to 1.1EC until last week. Only the two before last feeding were RO + Silica, and the last one was at 0.7 with nutes. I did the former two to prep her for nute brand change, but seeing as she might be hungry, I gave her some Advanced Nutes today at 0.7. Oh and, my base ppm is 0.

Edit: I'm gonna up the nutes next feeding and skip only-water feeding.

 

[Bill284]

I'll lover my PH to 5.8

I have a schedule and I'm following it! I worked my way up from 0 to 1.1EC until last week. Only the two before last feeding were RO + Silica, and the last one was at 0.7 with nutes. I did the former two to prep her for nute brand change, but seeing as she might be hungry, I gave her some Advanced Nutes today at 0.7. Oh and, my base ppm is 0.

Edit: I'm gonna up the nutes next feeding and skip only-water feeding.

Hold on did I miss something there?
Only water feeding?
Never give plain water, full strength feeds every time.
Unless you are giving silicate.
I gave mine .5ml/L once a week, by itself after I've fed them.
A couple small adjustments and they will be perfect.
Keep up the good work.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Tayyar]

Hold on did I miss something there?
Only water feeding?
Never give plain water, full strength feeds every time.
Unless you are giving silicate.
I gave mine .5ml/L once a week, by itself after I've fed them.
A couple small adjustments and they will be perfect.
Keep up the good work.

Stay safe
Bill

So here's exactly how I'm feeding it.
I'm giving it one full strength nutes, then another one either just calmag, just silica, or just water. Feeding every other day when the bucket feels on the light side but not as much as feather.

I'm usually trying to go in order like so: Full Nutes, then Calmag, Full nutes, then just Silica, Full Nutes, then just R/O water (all ph balanced to 6). This worked out well for me so far to be honest. I'm giving it R/O water every 5 feedings or so to clean up excess salts.

Thanks for responding! Lemme know what you think.

 

[Bill284]

So here's exactly how I'm feeding it.
I'm giving it one full strength nutes, then another one either just calmag, just silica, or just water. Feeding every other day when the bucket feels on the light side but not as much as feather.

I'm usually trying to go in order like so: Full Nutes, then Calmag, Full nutes, then just Silica, Full Nutes, then just R/O water (all ph balanced to 6). This worked out well for me so far to be honest. I'm giving it R/O water every 5 feedings or so to clean up excess salts.

Thanks for responding! Lemme know what you think.

I think that's part of your problem.
Feed full strength nutrients every time.
No plain or ro water ever.
Only once a week after feeding to give silicate.
Feed them until you get about 10% runoff every time.
This prevents salt build up and you don't need to waste time flushing.
Don't flush your pots.
Keep coco soaking wet at all times.
Don't ever let it dry out.
It's hydroponic and drying will cause everything to just travel right through the pot and out the bottom.
So calmag first into your mix every time.
Micro,grow then bloom nutrients.
1000 ppm minimum.
Set ph to 5.8
Feed every day and keep wet.
In flower it's recommended feeding twice a day.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Bigjake8]

I'm with Bill on feed them baby's

I run advanced 3 part in dwc and average 1.1 in veg then up as high as 2.5 in flower after all the snake oil I dump in

Even if you run your mix the way you have but feed every time your gonna have some monsters think the plain water is whats getting you

Nice info on your post btw

 

[Tayyar]

Noted and noted @Bill284 , thank you so much for the info!
Thanks @Bigjake8 , I'll feed her with nutes every feeding from now on, keeping the numbers in mind.

I'm super excited for this grow. She got to this point perfectly. I'm going to see to it that she recovers within the next few days and send you guys updates. Have a great one!

 

[Bill284]

Noted and noted @Bill284 , thank you so much for the info!
Thanks @Bigjake8 , I'll feed her with nutes every feeding from now on, keeping the numbers in mind.

I'm super excited for this grow. She got to this point perfectly. I'm going to see to it that she recovers within the next few days and send you guys updates. Have a great one!

Get your feeding organized and they will be fine.
No permanent damage so far.
When you get feed and parameters correct this is what they should look like.
Nice and green, leaves all pointing up.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Tayyar]

Understood, sir. I'm on it. What a garden by the way!

 

[Tayyar]

One last thing! Since we're on this topic, I thought I'd mention the current feeding schedule I'm using, and the one I'm planning on migrating on. I'll update the schedule after reading the EC values.


This is what I used for vegging, duplicated the 3rd week 4 times to extend veg period to 2 months.

And this is the one I'm planning on using during flowering, I'll start a new seed with the veg table on the same graphic.
PS: I may or may not do foliar, I probably won't do it but we'll see.

Let me know what you guys think!
For some reason bold letters won't turn off...

 

[Bill284]

One last thing! Since we're on this topic, I thought I'd mention the current feeding schedule I'm using, and the one I'm planning on migrating on. I'll update the schedule after reading the EC values.


This is what I used for vegging, duplicated the 3rd week 4 times to extend veg period to 2 months.

And this is the one I'm planning on using during flowering, I'll start a new seed with the veg table on the same graphic.
PS: I may or may not do foliar, I probably won't do it but we'll see.

Let me know what you guys think!
For some reason bold letters won't turn off...

Don't start checking ph , ec of runoff as the chart suggests.
You will get confused chasing you tail
Concentrate on what your putting in.
Use the chart as a guideline.
You will hopefully eventually be able to read them and give them what they need when they need it.
Start with the chart and adjust your ppm's 900 or so.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Bigjake8]

I get good results with that schedule on the flower side but I don't run all their products I've been adding something on each run to se what gets the big bang

I always ran the 3 part with cal mag with a pk booster and sugaree to replace the bud candy

Then I added b52 and got more potent

Then last round added big bud and overdrive but heat and cal mag issue got me to far behind (because I was putting cal mag in after my base nutes not before and kept upping it with no results just because I was mixing it wrong) but still better results

Think I'm gonna add sensizym next run idk

Looks like a good plan to me

 

[Tayyar]

Hey guys, I've got an update.

Last night I fed her with the AN lineup, second chart, last week of veg + some sensizym to help start decomposing dead matter in the coco at 1.2 EC. Then I went to bed.

This morning, I saw some weird marks on the leaves.

I've been using Dr. Marijane (a great Hydroguard alternative) since day one to help keep the roots happy. It sure can't be some toxicity or lockout I don't think since I haven't been giving her a lot of nutrients, and my nutrient mixing order has always been "silica first, calmag second, everything else after."

It's so weird how in 5 days things look very different. What am I seeing in these photos?

Edit: Underside of the leaves look fine. It's only some of the lower fan leaves that have these black marks, not all of them.

 

[Bill284]

Hey guys, I've got an update.

Last night I fed her with the AN lineup, second chart, last week of veg + some sensizym to help start decomposing dead matter in the coco at 1.2 EC. Then I went to bed.

This morning, I saw some weird marks on the leaves.

I've been using Dr. Marijane (a great Hydroguard alternative) since day one to help keep the roots happy. It sure can't be some toxicity or lockout I don't think since I haven't been giving her a lot of nutrients, and my nutrient mixing order has always been "silica first, calmag second, everything else after."

It's so weird how in 5 days things look very different. What am I seeing in these photos?

Edit: Underside of the leaves look fine. It's only some of the lower fan leaves that have these black marks, not all of them.

Hey @Tayyar How are you my friend?
How often and how much silicate do you put in?
I've always mixed it by itself with just ph,d water.
.5 ml /L once a week after feeding.
Don't put it in your nutrient mix.
Always put your calmag in first.
Monitor those marks for a couple days and post pics.
Those pics where great.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Tayyar]

Hey @Bill284 I'm doing alright, considering the sudden change of events haha. How are you doing today?

I started giving her silica two weeks ago, week 6 of veg, before that I had had mixed some GHE Silica dust with coco and perlites. I've been giving her 2ml/l twice a week for the past 2 weeks. Including yesterday... Do you think that might be the problem?

What do you mean by "after feeding"? Like giving her nute mix in the morning and some silica as a second meal? That got me confused

I'll stop with Silica since it's already a lot more than what you mentioned... Should I be flushing, would that help?

Thanks

 

[nivek]

seems near every time a folk is seeking assistance with plant issues these days it has to do with 'coco' i guess i am loco cuz i am finding it difficult to see why any one would want to grow in loco coco

very high maintenance indeed,,

karma sent friend

i really do not think the 'drooping' was a nute issue,, for sure a 'watering' issue,, now,, the marks on the leaves,, well,, that is only going to get worse,, that looks like a fertilizing issue

i grow in perlite,, similar hydro style like coco, but different,, and, personally, i ph my waterings to 5.6 or so,, the ph drifts up quite quickly i find and i had a steady run of leaf loss till i lowered the ph a wee bit

 

[Bill284]

Hey @Bill284 I'm doing alright, considering the sudden change of events haha. How are you doing today?

I started giving her silica two weeks ago, week 6 of veg, before that I had had mixed some GHE Silica dust with coco and perlites. I've been giving her 2ml/l twice a week for the past 2 weeks. Including yesterday... Do you think that might be the problem?

What do you mean by "after feeding"? Like giving her nute mix in the morning and some silica as a second meal? That got me confused

I'll stop with Silica since it's already a lot more than what you mentioned... Should I be flushing, would that help?

Thanks

Yes after you feed wait a few minutes then give the silicate, once a week is plenty.
Calmag ,nutrients set ph feed everyday.
Try that see how she responds.

Stay safe.
Bill

 

[Tayyar]

Yes after you feed wait a few minutes then give the silicate, once a week is plenty.
Calmag ,nutrients seat ph feed everyday.
Try that see how she responds.

Stay safe.
Bill

@Bill284 Thanks so much! I'll do that from now on.

@nivek tbh I went to bed kinda depressed after reading your message BUT I've got an update!

The last feeding was two nights ago. This morning, I went and checked on the girl and saw that the leaf marks spread onto a few other lower fan leaves but did not move onto higher leaves, and the top set of leaves got darker green and drooping stopped! It's not looking upwards like she's hungry for light, but she looks much better than she did yesterday and the day before! I'm going to stick to Bill's suggestion about silica, and general feeding method and see to it that she recovers. I think she'll be a beast!

Thanks so much for your help, guys, I appreciate it a lot! I'll keep you posted if I see anything happening.

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284 Thanks so much! I'll do that from now on.

@nivek tbh I went to bed kinda depressed after reading your message BUT I've got an update!

The last feeding was two nights ago. This morning, I went and checked on the girl and saw that the leaf marks spread onto a few other lower fan leaves but did not move onto higher leaves, and the top set of leaves got darker green and drooping stopped! It's not looking upwards like she's hungry for light, but she looks much better than she did yesterday and the day before! I'm going to stick to Bill's suggestion about silica, and general feeding method and see to it that she recovers. I think she'll be a beast!

Thanks so much for your help, guys, I appreciate it a lot! I'll keep you posted if I see anything happening.

Don't let anything get you down your doing great.
Personally I think coco is the easiest to grow in.
They grow fast like straight hydro.
You have the stability and mobility of a pot.
You don't have to guess like soil.
Ph to 5.8 feed every day simple.

Stay safe
Bill