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DWC Waterloo Scrog - Recirculating Reservoir - DS-200 LED

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
This is my attempt to beat the summer heat using daily changed frozen water bottles... The tubing will be insulated with split foam pipe insulation when it warms up.... We've already hit 90*f on 3-28, but are dropping back into the 70*s... The igloo build can be found in my diy thread in diy forum... There are changes in this one from the one in the diy thread... 420 Magazine ® This grow is a 24"x 30" scrog screen...
The seed is sprouted in a paper towel, then put straight into the hydroton... No need to start the seed in anything else.. This method has never failed me, and it's faster... Pics from end of day one... I'll post more pics every few days....


The big girl is in a stand alone igloo scrog that was used as a waterfarm, no external reservoir, 24"x 42" screen... It was a winter grow so no heat problems...
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
It's an Advanced led.... First time with an led.. Trying to cut down on my elect bill and heat.. I only use one fert, Flora Nova Bloom... and a little cal-mag because I use ro water... The big girl was fed FNB only, no cal-mag... Trying to follow the Scottyballs tech.. Never go over 1000 ppm....
 

RandomEighty8

New Member
Yea I'm looking at lowering costs. But I'm stuck on which led sponsor to spend money with. And l I used canna aqua Flores a + b but I'm going to try vitalink easy bloom because its a one part nutrient. I have all sorts of deficiencies when using 2 part.

And my current grow was taken from cutting and the mother plant was a bonsai beast that was slowly ramped up to 2000 ppm. So my plants now in bloom are showing no signs of burn sat at 2400 ppm. A bit silly but I'm testing this strains limits with high stress. WW x BB.

Is your system shop bought or d.i.y. And can you show any pictures of the innards?
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
Gonna close this thread.... Was gone for a week on a 2200 mile round trip and just returned this last weekend... The air feed to the pumping column came loose and the plant died... Can't start a do over because there's a repeat trip in about 3-4 weeks.... Will try again first part of June....
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
You're right, it is time to restart the Waterloo and the DS-200.. Last time was from seed, this time I'm going right from the cloner to the Waterloo.. Really don't know what to expect from a 185 watt led.... What I don't expect is 400 watt hps results....
Will add reflector panels and the scrog screen to maximize the light as soon as the roots are through the basket.., and like i said before, the only fert. will be Flora Nova Bloom... If you read the label you'll realize this is not as crazy as it first sounds... I've used it for years simply because it's cheap, and it works....
google: Scottyballs pineapple express seed to harvest : The man showed me the way to large yields, minimum work, short turn around time.... I've only tried to improve on the waterfarm plumbing setup, not Scottys method....
My cheap 5 gal cloner and some Ice and ak48 clones.... The 2 week old clone in it's new home, 6-23...... I'm thinking it's an AK48.. Will be veging for the next 4-5 weeks... Split foam pipe insulation was used on the tubing...



The scrog screen with reflector panels is in the waterfarm pimp thread...
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
It's been two weeks since i pulled it from the cloner... Should have let it stay in for another 5 days for more roots... Took 10 days to get roots out the bottom of the basket and start growing...... Running Flora Nova Bloom 425 ppm... The plant does like the light at this stage.... The real test will come when the plant exceeds the lights claimed core footprint... After all the claims of what an LED can do, i'll really be disappointed if the light isn't equal to at least a 250 hps.. I'll be giving the plant it's one time topping in a couple days..... I figure the screen will go down in a couple weeks.....
 

tucker99

Active Member
Fish, looks like you're following scottballs principles. Thanks for suggesting to me that I read that thread, just finished it up yesterday. Still can't believe what I read. I'm canning the DWC and have a waterfarm on the way. Flora Nova Bloom came yesterday and reconfiguring my cabinet now. I'm using the Mars Reflector 3 X 98 LED's. Don't expect the 3-week veg like Scotty did with that 400 watt MH, but it would be nice. I do remember reading in the thread that he didn't intentionally top, he bent a stem and it broke. How come you're topping? Looks like you got 3 or 4 branches. How close do you have your light? Thanks.
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
The topping worked so well for that grow, so i kinda adopted it as standard practice... I wont need any more side branching than you see in the cleaned up under screen pic in Scottys grow... Most of that exists now... Topping will stop the main growth and allow the side branching to grow out and up to the screen, where it will be pulled back down and moved out to another hole...Like Scottys grow, half the colas will come at the 12/12 switch.. Some of the lateral branching nearest the screen will stretch and finish filling the screen with colas... Everything that wasn't selected to be a cola is removed from under the screen... I hate to be redundant, but it's important to remember the screen will finish filling with the 12/12 stretch from selected growth on all the main branches.... Those main branches are not allowed to grow above the screen before the 12/12... [The best example is the side view pic of Scottys screen before cleaning under it.... Nothing is above the screen...] All the plant stretches at flowering so the ones near, but still under the screen, shoot through and keep up with the main branches... The ends of the main branches don't stretch any faster that the rest of the plant.... Every thing stays about the same height as they grow above the screen...
I was using a 24"x30" screen with a 400 hps.... Scotty only had a 19"x 29" screen... To be realistic i've dropped the screen size to an 18"x 24" screen for this 3wx100, 185 watt draw led...
Reading Scottys thread is almost a prerequisite to getting a handle on what i'm trying to emulate.... No way i can say it better....
One thing about waterfarms and all rdwc, it's best if you can keep the water temps below 70*f.... I've been able to keep it in the upper 60f*s with my frozen water bottles..... I'll be getting a chiller when do more than one grow... For sure..
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
So far i haven't seen any cal-mag problems, i usually don't...... FNB has cal&mag added, 3&4%... I add a little ph down when needed at reservoir change... The 3% citric acid buffer that's in FNB will take care of mild ph problems...
My hydro store told me that Monsanto, who bought the maker of FNB, will stop making it as it is now formulated.... it must be that it is to good at what it does.... I know i'll be stocking up with a few gallons...
 

tucker99

Active Member
Good stuff Fish, thanks. Shit, that's bad news about discontinuing the Nova series. I just got a quart but I'll be ordering a couple gallons. Does it have a shelf life? It appears to be mineral based vs organic so I don't see why it won't keep. Yea, my tap water's PH is 6.5 so I need to bring it down a bit. Glad to hear the FNB keeps it there. Also, good news about the cal/mag. I was concerned that the FNB didn't have enough supplements. Got to tell you, the scottyballs thread is an inspiration. I was freaking out reading about all the shit guys add plus bleach, peroxide, molasses, WTF? Also, looks like you're having a problem with short veg time. I'm re-reading scotty's thread; there's so much bullshit in there, I'm making notes of only his posts. It looks like he went 12/12 at day 25; which is freakin' incredible when considering that's from germination (unless I missed something). Yea, I hope I'm getting filling the screen correctly. It's important in my case because I'm in a 72" cabinet and stretch is a concern. Add to that, the Mars LED instructions say keep the light 18"-24" above the foliage. So in a nut shell soon as a stem reaches a couple inches above the screen tuck it again correct? So when going 12/12 nothing should be above the screen and I should get a consistent stretch, do I have it right? Also, scotty mentioned several times that he checked water quality daily. Unless your PPM is 0 you have to do math each time. For instance, my PPM is 140 out of the tap so I have to subtract that amount from my daily reading to get a true reading of my nute level. Is there a meter than can be zeroed at the level of the water right from the tap? Am I thinking right? Thanks again for the help.
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
Change the nothing above the screen, to very little above... a couple inches is fine.. when you move them out they will still be an inch are 2 above the screen and will grow more..... Take your ques from the pics and dates.... The ends of your main branches are the only ones at and above the screen a little when you start 12/12... some of them may need to be moved again as they stretch.. And as Scotty says you can knock off a few fan leaves to slow down the faster main branches, they sometimes grow faster and need to be moved out again.......
Just subtract your start ppm from your ppm reading after adding fnb... Don't put the WF on the floor, makes it hard to drain.... When the plant is at 4-5 weeks in flower it'll be drinking a gal. a day.... If you modify the waterfarm with a standing water column you can add a reservoir and circulate it.. The waterfarm mod thread still needs a pic of the water column pass through cone..... With that added you can lift the wf grow basket to inspect the roots.... at least until the screen goes down when the main branches reach it.... Adding an active or passive reservoir will let you check the water level, ph, and ppm there..
After the pics of the finished roots, Scottys thread descends into BS, pissing contests, and opinions of whats needed... Bleach and peroxide have their place in small amounts when the water temp gets out of control, and things start to go to shit.... When the water temps are kept down in the mid to upper 60s*f there never seems to be any problems, at least i've never had any....
My led has a veg and bloom... ran it on veg for a week, then switched to both veg and bloom, 185 watt draw... Running it at 24" now and will go down to 18 as it grows into it... Any closer and i'd lose the core footprint of the light...... I ran several scrog grows until got it right using hps...... I was letting the plants grow to big..... The secret to the faster time is that the screen finishes filling during the stretch and not the veg...... I'm not saying you can't use a huge screen,veg longer, and take 5-6 weeks longer to finish.... Scottys fast tech. suits the way i grow... 1 plant 1 container, one light.... This led grow is more a lark than anything else, just had to see how true the claims are... It vegs as well as any light i've used , including my T5s...
Finished paying Paypal pay later for the led... Ordering a SunSystems 315watt lec and a chiller fri...
Pick out the smallest hydroton and use those in the center if you do the sprouted seed method..
You'll see a small aluminum trough that runs from a drip hole to very near the new planted seed root.... I usually use two, one on each side at the start to keep the seed wet for only a week or so, or till it gets growing...
Find a drill bit the size of the holes in the WF grow basket and drill twice as many as are already there.....

The hydro guy said it was only the FNB formulation they were changing... and he couldn't get it anymore... that was enough to get me to stock up, even if it isn't true... I'll keep it cool like i do my dog food, in a mini-fridge
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
4 days later' she seems to be growing fine.... Moving her up to 500 ppm..The more i look at this plant the more i think it may be Ice, from Nirvana, and not AK-48.... either way, i'm happy with it
 

tucker99

Active Member
Looks good Fish!. How are you handling nute changes and makeup water? Scottyballs method (post59) was to add tap water as make up water; then do a complete nute change when make up water equaled res capacity (2-gals). This seems to waste a lot of nutes but it takes the guess work out of it. Thanks!
 

Dr Fish

Well-Known Member
With my reservoir i have about 8 gal total... The water level drops much slower than a WF with only 2-1/2 gal cap. I start with plain PHed water then bring it up slowly by adding to the reservoir... First week or so just plain water.... When i start to feed i add some to the reservoir, let it circulate a couple hours to mix then check again for the ppm i want... I'll replace in the reservoir with plain water when it starts to drop, and change out when it gets growing, every 10-14 days... At change out i'll mix in another container, set the ph and bring it up to the ppm i want before before draining and refilling.... No waste for me, it drains to my melon patch... With an unmodified WF you are tied to it at least once a day, more if it's growing really good.... When it's drinking heavy, miss a day and it'll be nearly empty, miss two and it's probably gonna be near dead...
Some growers add back with a weak solution to bring the ppm back up and only change out a few times a grow....... Risky with a small WF since plants feeding heavy take what they need, and you never know what they're using.. A passive reservoir would be better than none... Fill in with plain water, or a weak solution... you would still ck your ppm and ph at the WF... A 5 gal black bucket, a couple 1/2" grommets and barbs and tubing to connect to the waterfarm and you've got a reservoir... A 13/16 spade bit will cut the right size hole... Hydro may not work for you if heat is an issue... Just keep at it :thumb:
 
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