Ebb & Flow #2

[BTzGrow]

I took some clone cuttings a few weeks ago and have already started one group of 4 clones on their journey.

The second set of 4 I did some meditation to toss or keep. I couldn't make up my mind right away, which in effect was actually making up the mind. It was kinda a "Well lets see how they do in these little solo cup sized Stadium Cups.

IMG_4708.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Jul 25, 2019

So I had them going along in the propagation tote under a single 2' 2bulb T-5 with 6200K as the blue spectrum. They began to slowly and very tightly grow very close nodes. I like tight! They have been in that happy place since a couple days after I put the other Clones in the Ebb&Flow system.

I moved them into the big girl veg tent this morning and took along their friend the T5 light fixture. Put the 2nd bulb in and now they are watered and settling in.

Aug4th TentMove.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Aug 4, 2019

A little close up to show just how tight the nodes and growth is.

Aug4th.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Aug 4, 2019

They are actually spreading out quite a bit, shorter and fuller than the other girls.

Grow Plan:
I intend to make a second Ebb&Flow tray that will fit in the elevated veg tent and put a reservoir underneath in a food bucket with a pump and return.

Growing media will be 100% Perlite.
Containers: Currently in small SoloCup size Stadium Cups. To be moved up into a 1gallon painting bucket. Hempy Style
Nutrition: Currently still finishing off the Clonex Solution mix I made. Will mover them over to the same mix as the other Ebb&Flow system is using. That consists of Ebsom Salt, CaliMagic, DynaGro Protekt, and DynaGro Grow.
First Light: Currently using the 2foot 2bulb T-5 fixture with 6200K blue bulbs.
Second Light: I will change the light source over to a 100watt LED HLG Quantum Board system to finish veg.
Third Light: Just before flip a change will be made to a Perfect Sun Mini rated at 120watts.

That's all for now. Happy growing.

 

[WankirA]

Found it.
Hey fella, hope it goes well, incidentally, lots of low draw lighting there, is that by design or just what you got?

 

[BTzGrow]

Hey glad you found it.

If by low draw light you mean low intensity it is by design. I have often started my grows by and extended exposure to the T5 lower intensity blue light. I have found it intentionally causes slower grow vertically while still filling in and bulking up. I have found that it still produces several node just very tightly stacked.

With this one, It's also allowing me some time to prep my next Ebb&Flow Tray for this grow. I'm also kind of interested to see just how it will continue to stack and spread. Stay tuned for sure.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Way to go, with ebb and flo
Bro

 

[BTzGrow]

I'm working on getting the second Ebb & Flow system put together. Should be running nicely by the time you get here on Thursday.

 

[CattleTurd]

Nice.. I need to start cloning in order to preserve some nice strains I’ve acquired, and put them to seed eventually.

 

[BTzGrow]

Yep, part of this process is I'm hoping the Triple Cheese I cloned it a great strain. I know I enjoy the UK Cheese I grew the end of last year. So I'm hoping to pull another few ounces out of the original grow that is in flower currently. I'm considering making a mother plant and do a Dwarf/Bonsai plant. I have to work the logistics of where to grow it though.

First World Problems.

 

[Barney86]

Hey glad you found it.

If by low draw light you mean low intensity it is by design. I have often started my grows by and extended exposure to the T5 lower intensity blue light. I have found it intentionally causes slower grow vertically while still filling in and bulking up. I have found that it still produces several node just very tightly stacked.

With this one, It's also allowing me some time to prep my next Ebb&Flow Tray for this grow. I'm also kind of interested to see just how it will continue to stack and spread. Stay tuned for sure.

I use 130w 14000k CFL to start them for that very same reason mate.
Most growers will tell you that spec is useless but it'll grow a dozen plants to the 4th node in 2 weeks. they turn out perfectly proportioned, sturdy plants every time .

 

[Barney86]

Heya buddy would you mind explaining to me what exactly an ebb n flow system is? I'm a little confused.
Done most things hydro just not that, are you handwatering or is that automated?

 

[WankirA]

@Barney86 morning fella, can i pick your brain on pm (my coco plants giving me some gyp?!)

And yeah , @BTzGrow spill

 

[Barney86]

@Barney86 morning fella, can i pick your brain on pm (my coco plants giving me some gyp?!)

And yeah , @BTzGrow spill

Fire away buddy. Im rough as toast so be on the couch for the forseable future

 

[FelipeBlu]

Heya buddy would you mind explaining to me what exactly an ebb n flow system is? I'm a little confused.

From BTz other Ebb&Flow thread:

Here you can see them placed in the clear tray that sits above the reservoir. The first shows the tray empty and ready to fill. The second shows the tray completely full to the overflow drains.

The pump will fill to that level and actually only one drain is enough to drain without filling any higher. The second one is basically a little over protection. Wouldn't want only one drain and it have a clog. Oh the mess! Besides making a huge mess, it could also create an issue where the reservoir would empty itself before shutting off and I would have to make more at perhaps a most inopportune time. Let alone the idea if I go away for a few days and don't have the ability to check on it.

 

[CattleTurd]

There’s also ebb n flow with siphons. I’ve seen it done outdoors with drums cut in half, filled with gravel. A pump fill the barrels and the siphon drains it. Pretty good for cucumbers and tomatoes.

 

[FelipeBlu]

 

[BTzGrow]

Heya buddy would you mind explaining to me what exactly an ebb n flow system is? I'm a little confused.
Done most things hydro just not that, are you handwatering or is that automated?

Ebb and Flow for my purpose is a process that I call Hydro Lite. The plants are in a growing media in pots with holes in the bottom and lower sides. The pots sit in a water tight tray with Ebb & Flow Fittings. The fittings are connected to a reservoir that contains the water/nutrient mix and a submersible pump on a timer.

In my case I'm using 100% Perlite. I have the plants in what are called Hempy Buckets. I have successfully used the Hempy process for well over a year and extremely happy with it. Perlite wicks moisture up approximately 8inches. Here you can see the Hempy buckets sitting in the water tight tray with the fill and drain fitting in the middle.

IMG_4755.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Aug 4, 2019

The fittings are actually called Ebb & Flow on Amazon.

Here's a couple of pictures of the tray filling.

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• BTzGrow
• Jul 18, 2019

IMG_4637.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Jul 18, 2019

Whenever the pump is turned on by a timer it fills the tray to a level of 3inches. At three inches the feed water gets to the top of the overflow stand and it drains back down into the reservoir.

Think of it like the overflow drain in your bathroom vanity sink. The reservoir that contains the water/nutrient mix with a submersible pump on a timer is below the tray for gravity return of overflow and drain.

Because the Perlite wicks to about 8inches and the water level in the tray reaches 3 inches the pot that is 9inches tall received moisture all the way to the top of the Hempy bucket. Theoretically! Seems to be working that way.

Once the pump turns off the water drains almost completely out of the tray through the input fitting the water was filling.

Here you see all of the system parts together.

IMG_4673.jpg

• BTzGrow
• Jul 18, 2019

I use a 27 quart storage tote and a smaller under the bed storage clear storage tray. With the Ebb and Flow fittings, tubing, and pump all total is perhaps under $50.

These pictures are from the first Ebb & Flow unit. For this grow I have a Clear storage tray with the Ebb & Flow fittings inside a small 2x2x4 tent with a 5gallon paint bucket underneath. Submersible pump inside the reservoir bucket with tubing up to the fittings and a return tube back into the bucket. Both systems are what might be called a closed system. I do have a fitting down at the bottom of each with a short hose and a valve to drain when want to change and clean the reservoir every couple of weeks.

I would be happy to provide a list of materials I used. Specifically the pump and fittings. The reservoir and fill tray might be more customized to your specific needs and space requirements.

Summation: Currently the water/nutrient mix I have in my first Ebb & Flow effort Triple Cheese Clone Grow w Ebb&Flow is almost two weeks old and still feeding very nicely. I have the timer set on every 4hours. I haven't added any liquid during this period. I have been monitoring the pH and it has been staying around 5.75. The ppm level is staying stable around 750.

The interesting part is if the pH or the ppm changes then you need to pay attention to what is happening with the plant. My understanding is as long as it remains stable the plant is drinking what it needs in a balance process. As it consumes nutrients and water the water level does reduce but so does the ratio of nutrients. Currently the other system I'm using holds about 7gallons of liquid and has used about a gallon and half in the last 10days.

My brother @FelipeBlu turned me on to this idea and process. He's using it for when he is away from his plants for a few days. This is also one of my reasons. I would like to get this process refined and then I can take off for a long weekend and not be concerned about the feeding of my plants.

A I finish this second ebb & flow system for this grow I will post some pictures from both systems in a short DIY journal and place in my signature. I'm hoping to have it operational by the middle of this week.

Hope this answers your questions and gives you some ideas that you might use. So far I'm extremely pleased with the lack of needing to water every day or two and all that entails.

 

[BTzGrow]

I see that @FelipeBlu has added an excellent picture diagram that visual shows all the parts in the process. Well done Bro! Between my long winded dissertation and his picture I feel you should be able to work from here. Let me know if you would like recommendations for parts. I will say I'm using a submersible that has a bottom feed sump attachment. It should allow for less liquid in the smaller bucket reservoir.

2E351A61-9750-441A-AEEC-7E870E79C346.jpeg

• BTzGrow
• Aug 11, 2019

This is a 250gph pump and it has the ability to pump water up about 5feet. That is an import part of the process.

 

[BTzGrow]

I use 130w 14000k CFL to start them for that very same reason mate.
Most growers will tell you that spec is useless but it'll grow a dozen plants to the 4th node in 2 weeks. they turn out perfectly proportioned, sturdy plants every time .

Barney, nice to have a little confirmation regarding the light level and blue spectrum.

 

[HydroRed]

Hey @BTzGrow
Great setup. My kinda stuff! I love Hydroponics and love inexpensive DIY stuff even more. You sure we aint related? haha
Glad I found your spot on here.

 

[WankirA]

How many times do you flood the upper tank a day BTzG?
Gussing if its on a timer you averaging a couple feeds a day and increasing going into flower?
Does the risk of suffocating the roots in air go up drastically ?
I'm using coco so know it isnt same but essentially the pearlite is acting as the sponge for nutes and water and releasing over time to plant.
This is another highly oxigenated water method, guessing yields are above avg with this method?
Btw if you have plans, lets us have them, even if we squirrel them for later.

 

[Barney86]

Ahh, now i get it. Thanks for that mate. Its just one of these things ive never learned about.
My methods are similar.
In coco, i get them propperly rooted up in 10-12l fabrics then sit them in a 4inch tall tub. I water untill the tub is full then let them absorb the lot. Takes 24 hours by the time they hit bloom.
I also grow NFT, which is a 4inch rockwool balanced very precariously on a shelf that gets fed about 600 litres a day on a 24/7 drip but never gets more than a few mm deep.

One of thems a constant flood and the other is a constant drain
Are their any downsides youve found with the ebb and flo method?
Am i right in thinking its mostly passive hydro? By that i mean that the plant isnt feeding directly from the res so the ppm and ph shouldnt really change much?