Email from Keith Stroup of NORML; is this acceptable behavior?

After reading through the e-mails, all I can say is I've lost a little respect for NORML's mode of operation (I still have TREMENDOUS respect for them). Im not saying anything bad about them, just that I think my mind will take them a little less seriously now. I could see by your email that the 'angry tone' wasn't directed at any person in particular, but rather at the lack of action being taken. Legalization is long overdue, and the representation from the advocates shouldnt be so childish. Although, knowing how the world works today, I would still write back and give him a full apology; just for the sake of burying the axe and restarting a dialogue. They read the words as they like to see them.

This post is not meant to offend, insult, flame, or instigate anyone, it is just a written account of my thoughts and views on this subject. It should be in no way construed as instructions or directions for dealing with any entity. Mods, feel free to alter this post as much as you want to make it fit with what you think it should say.
 
PatrizioD said:
This post is not meant to offend, insult, flame, or instigate anyone, it is just a written account of my thoughts and views on this subject. It should be in no way construed as instructions or directions for dealing with any entity. Mods, feel free to alter this post as much as you want to make it fit with what you think it should say.
Click to expand...
no need :grinjoint:
 
I sure hope NORML has someone monitoring this site. Where else could they get a better pulse on the culture?
 
I have also lost respect for normal and HIGHTIMES mag, but Norml , they seem to have lost some integrity. I do support mpp though.
 
Your points were IMHO very valid and I will state that I have long felt the same way. But your language and inflammatory prose sucked, man. If you are studying to become an attorney you really need to take some interpersonal-communication courses along with the legal ones. I am surprised that this is not a requirement. Imagine that you are trying to get your client acquitted of capital murder and you are in the midst of making your closing statement...

...when you piss the jurors off.

Any person is likely to become defensive and combative when they have been insulted - or feel that they have; it amounts to the same thing for all practical purposes.

OTOH, an adult would have responded to your email with a slightly less hostile email and in all likelihood even rebutted your questions, if only to prove you wrong to their own satisfaction. A ten-year old would have responded in much the same way that this person did.

I guess it is true that some MJ users truly are "just stoners."

I thought to write that not all non-profit organizations are made up of unpaid volunteers and that perhaps this person was highly paid and felt unconsiously threatened by your discussion of money or suggestion that they merge with another entity so I did a quick google and hit on their tax return for 2002. It looks like that at least in that fiscal year that NORML had no paid employees making more than $50,000 (although there could be some that made $49,999 lol). It also looks like for the years of 1999-2001 they received $1,119,689 (and I have also never seen a television commercial from them). Their total contributions, gifts, grants, and similar amounts received (direct and indirect public support) for 2002 amounted to $230,258 (less than I expected). One wonders where it goes, what portion is spent on base expenses such as office space, utilities and such. They seem to buy a lot of advertising space in such magazines such as HT (initials only in deference to this site) and others which seems a bit, well, silly to me since I would expect that most readers of such publications are already in favor of legalization whereas television spots tailored to target their particular viewing audience would be much more effective AND reach an audience that will never be reached by advertisements in the MJ magazines. Many people are more likely to act based on audiovisual commercials than print ads and as this country becomes more and more mentally vegetated this trend will only grow.

Oh, just saw in that tax return that Kieth Stroup was listed as an uncompensated Director who devoted an average of one hour per week to his position lol.

My, these non-profit tax returns can be interesting. If I'm reading it correctly they operated at a net loss for the year covered by that return. Not sure as I'm just skimming it because I just took my (non-MJ) meds and they cause problems with my mental abilities.

Here is the address of the .pdf if anyone is interested:
Code: 
https://norml.org/pdf_files/tax_forms/NORML_Foundation_Tax_Return_2003.pdf

I assume other years are available as well.

The tax documents may satisfy your question as to whether or not NORML actually has the funds to wage an effective television ad campaign. One ad isn't going to do it, you know.

Perhaps you should be wondering if what funds they receive are put to the best use - as I am - instead of wondering if they can actually afford to purchase a given amount of television time with what funds they have unallocated and available.

I do hope you manage to at least find the answers to your questions (and to learn to disassociate your temper from your communiques). Good luck!
 
As an addition to my last post:

I guess organizations such as NORML might advertise in your (420magazine) magazine. While I would not wish to see you lose a single cent of your revenue, I do firmly believe that such advertising is pretty much wasted. I mean, you don't go to an NRA rally and try to convince people that guns aren't bad because you'd just be preaching to the choir. You go to other demographics.

Of course if your magazine and "all the other ones covering the subject of MJ/MMJ" donate said adspace, well, it can't hurt anything lol.
 
I think you could have left out the thumb up the ass part.
Keith must have been having a bad day, because he responded in a very unprofessional manner.
He might have taken personal offense because he is NORML's founder.
IMO you were both wrong, but he was more wrong than you.
If you send him an apology; he should respond with an apology of his own.
 
nbk380 said:
see this is why weed IS NOT legal!!!!

smokin weed does not solve any problems!!!!

smokin weed does not cure cancer!!!!!!

smokin weed JUST makes you feel better!!!!

i'll answer the question though.....

damn your firing me huh?
Click to expand...

So you think "weed" isn't legal because it makes people feel better? WTF? There are multitudes that work hard for cannabis legalization and the relief they receive from cannabis makes them able to do so. Is attacking each other the real way to make "weed" legal? I think not. When we work together, much more will be accomplished. We have the numbers, we now must do a full court press on Washington to let them know we want change. Have you written your congressman this week? Have you written the president and let him know how disappointed you were that he didn't take our question seriously in the recent news conference? If we would spend our time more wisely, we would see more change. No time for inner fighting; we are not the enemy.
 
I went back and reread the guy's reply. Notice that he said he didn't want to be contacted again (unless it's an apology) and to leave him alone...

...But he never said that he didn't want your continued donations lol.
 
I personally think that keith had every right to say what he said in that email
and his behavior was acceptable.
You must remember that you sent the first email and not in a very good manner.
I'd probally say about the same thing to you if you sent me that email.
 
Keith was pretty direct about it... but if you piss in someone's Wheaties, I wouldn't expect a polite response. Starting off an email exchange with a rant is a terrible way to communicate... most of us on here know you reap what you sow...
 
obxgardener said:
Keith was pretty direct about it... but if you piss in someone's Wheaties, I wouldn't expect a polite response. Starting off an email exchange with a rant is a terrible way to communicate... most of us on here know you reap what you sow...
Click to expand...

I know that too. And I guess it's just where I'm from or who I hang out with, but to me having one's "thumb up one's ass" isn't really even an insult. It's like a sarcastic way of saying someone's being lazy. He went from an email basically saying they were dropping the ball on pro-cannabis ads, to a reply calling me a rude ignorant ass, a loser and a fool. I certainly would not have responded in the same way, and I can say that with 99.9% certainty.

But it's over now. I apologized a couple days ago (whether I should have or not) and rephrased my questions in a civil and professional way.

I've received no response.
 
Re: Email from Keith Stroup of NORML; typical bullying BS

I posted a comment on their site and in it mentioned my opinion that you really can't rely on NORML for getting stuff done.
The full weight of NORML rained down on me. The website changed A. St. Pierre's first title from Mel Zimmer is Ignorant to misinformed.
Apparently NORML's head (is he really?) is claiming to be infallible. Guess he has a Pope Complex.
Not content with abusing his position, he then had NORML's Outreach guy reach out and condescend to me. Oh! We dumbass stoners, don't we know anything. I wonder if Mr. Belvile is also infallible?
So I think you are right except for one thing. Why the fok would you give your money to these lobbiests who have not got the job of legalization done in over three decades. In my opinion, they have no intention of doing so.
 
Hossua34,

Looks like you still need to finish college, and get some more real life experience, and then work for norml. It is people like you that will get things done.
 

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