420 Magazine Background

Embarrassing yields please help me

celticlyle

Active Member
Hi guys and girls hope everyone is doing well this weekend. I have just harvested my 3rd grow which was my 1st grow in over 10 years.
I was growing in coco coir mixed with Perlite 70/30 feeding Advanced Nutrients bottles hydroponic feed for coco using grow & A+B bloom A+B with cal-mag, big bud, overdrive. I am in a 1x1x2m tent with a x2 Vipaspectre 600w R series LED lights (570w at wall ish) it set up with a stable environment usually siting around 18-28C with 40-50%RH. I was not using a PPM meter only a PH pen and was feeding at around 5.8 til week 3 of flower then upped to 6.0 ( i fluctuated in small amounts of PH each time so i wasn't feeding at dead on same PH every feed I also used nutrients every feeding)
I am using extraction system with carbon filter, x3 fans and 1 osculating canopy fan, dehumidifier, heater in case in drops below like 17C and it never exceeds 29C where I stay and that is for a very small period during the hottest days outside of my grow room.
I was using the SCROG technique and had quite a nice even canopy but I did have quite a DEEP canopy so I recon this could have resulted in lessened yields due to the lower sites taking up energy. I did have the plants lollipoped but I guess my canopy was way to deep at around 18".
I also have a slight nitrogen toxicity during week 3 of flowering with one of my strains OGCDK which was recovered but will have still resulted in lesser yields.
I was growing 5 plants all photo-periods in the 1x2m tent 2 of which were small runts and made up the spare corner by themselves. The small runts and 1 of the LARGE plants were OG Candy Dawg Kush from seedstockers. These had the nitrogen toxicity during week 3 so I recon that definitely had a part to play in their yields. The other 2 large plants in the tent where LA confidential from DNA Genetics and also a Banana Glue from growers choice.

Basically I only got 202 Grams of dry bud from this grow the 2 small plants basically produced nothing maybe an 0z between them and the other 4 made up the 6+ that i got.
Banana glue ( 1 plant ) was 40g
OG candy dawg kush ( 1 plant + 2 runty plants )was 87.5g
LA confidential was 75g ( 1 pla

I am not gonna lie I am quite dissapointed with the yields even though It was only really 3 full sized plants plus the 2 runts in a 1x1x2m tent.
I recon Having my canopy too deep height wise was my down turn here as I got heaps of drulshy fluffy buds at the bottom of the canopy so they are all wasted energy. I have also learned my lesson with feeding the nutrients at the recommended doses.
Any advice or help is greatly appreciated as I am just looking to be a better grower. The quality of the bud I have is very good, All the top buds are very resinous THC covered and dense hard buds but the bottom stuff is just going to make some shatter lol.
 

Hrenklin

Well-Known Member
Hi there and welcome back to growing. Don't expect to hit a home run on your first grow in 10 years. 202g is pretty decent. And there could be several ways you can improve for next time.

If you can post a few pictures on a time line during flowering from flip, halfway point and end. We can generate some ideas of what went wrong, and how to improve
 

celticlyle

Active Member
Hi there and welcome back to growing. Don't expect to hit a home run on your first grow in 10 years. 202g is pretty decent. And there could be several ways you can improve for next time.

If you can post a few pictures on a time line during flowering from flip, halfway point and end. We can generate some ideas of what went wrong, and how to improve

I did do a journal of sorts but never really got any good pics of the harvested buds but they did fatten up a fair bit with the top buds showing around 10%+ amber tricomes after a 1 week flush of pure distilled water 2 days of which prior to harvest were in the darkness to promote resin production before the chop.
Thanks very much man I appreciate the reply. i always try and achieve great things and bite off more than i can chew haha
 

Hrenklin

Well-Known Member

I did do a journal of sorts but never really got any good pics of the harvested buds but they did fatten up a fair bit with the top buds showing around 10%+ amber tricomes after a 1 week flush of pure distilled water 2 days of which prior to harvest were in the darkness to promote resin production before the chop.
Thanks very much man I appreciate the reply. i always try and achieve great things and bite off more than i can chew haha

You are on the right track. A bit of a defoliate could have helped. The major part is probably tuning your nutrients.
 

Nunyabiz

Well-Known Member
Looks like you did everything pretty good overall.
If you stick with coco only thing I'd say maybe is a little tweak here and there.
Maybe nutrients at about 1/4 strength watered every day and a bit more light in veg like 20/4 for first 4 weeks.
Try to keep Temps at about 78-82 and humidity at about 65% in veg for your Vapor Pressure Deficit.
In flower drop both down a little, Temps at 74 to 77 and humidity going down by the week from 65% down to 35% during final week or two.
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Don't beat ya self up over a first grow in a decade bud & sounds like you got reasonable good yield.

Growing different strains all at the same time is tricky as in different growth rates & flowering time some are high yielders whilst others seem on the low side then you got phenotypes ... so you can not expect them all to be equal.

Also light source is questionable.
 

013

Well-Known Member
I’m the greenest greenhorn in the land but wanted to chime in...

Years ago I put a 8 catfish fingerlings in a 20 gallon aquarium - they lived but never grew. Reality is one or two POSSIBLY could have survived but there was not ample environment for 8 fish. If I wanted a catfish to not only survive but actually thrive then I needed to put them in a pond not an aquarium. One photoperiod plant that has been properly topped and trained can easily fill a 3 X 3 or a 4X4 tent wall to wall.

My first grow I pulled 930g wet off a single plant trained manifold style in 4X4, that was because of previous failures at growing plus an intense study here at 420 Magazine. The final yield on that 1 plant was just over 8 zips dry weight. Yes I got lucky and the manifold was basically a scrog except I could spin the container & plant around in the tent for maintenance.

Doc used to say 3 most important variables are environment, environment, environment.

I’m a soil grower and I exploit the wet dry cycle heavily by waiting for plants to wilt and droop during veg cycle, plus use up-canning to build massive rootball, that coupled with topping, training, defol & lollipopping all helps. Don’t forget monster croppping and supercropping both help drive yields up.

However since you are coco you need to feed every day is my understanding, coco cannot be allowed to dry out or it becomes hydrophobic so you can’t do the wet dry cycle thing.

There is nothing wrong with the light you’ve got, yes it’s blurple but at 600 watts should be able to produce good bud. I’m not good on the hydro nutes & techniques tho since I’m a soil guy.

You are doing good tho keep studying here! You will drive more & better yields with practice.
 
Last edited:

celticlyle

Active Member
You are on the right track. A bit of a defoliate could have helped. The major part is probably tuning your nutrients.
Sorry for the late reply, life got busy! Yeah i think you are correct in Saying that dialing in the nutrients is probably the part where I went wrong. When you say defoliation do you mean in the first 3 weeks of flower and do you mean at canopy height and within the surface canopy or under the canopy / canopy depth/height?
I currently have another grow of Growers choice White fire Gelato, All 4 have been introduced to the 1x1x2 tent and I have lollipopped them more aggressively this time leaving around 6" on canopy height wise. The are basically in week 1 flower so hopefully I can get some better results with these girls.:yummy:
 

celticlyle

Active Member
Looks like you did everything pretty good overall.
If you stick with coco only thing I'd say maybe is a little tweak here and there.
Maybe nutrients at about 1/4 strength watered every day and a bit more light in veg like 20/4 for first 4 weeks.
Try to keep Temps at about 78-82 and humidity at about 65% in veg for your Vapor Pressure Deficit.
In flower drop both down a little, Temps at 74 to 77 and humidity going down by the week from 65% down to 35% during final week or two.
Sorry for the late reply man and thank you very much for your reply! I have decided to stick with coco/perlite medium as I like the concept, It suits my grow style. I have looked at VPD and I am fairly sure I understand it. Basically humidity is a barrier and I need to control it better. I currently get around 60% RH in veg and anything from 40 -55% RH in flower due to my country being a very humid country outside. I definitely think I was running way to hot for nutrients in this run, every plant had signs on the very tips of the healthy looking fan leaves and the 2 small plants that had the N toxicity the worst has way less buds and higher leaf ratio that normal also their buds were not as dense.
I am currently 1 week into flower with my other run that I had in veg on the sidelines.. using the exact same set up except I have been a lot lighter on the nutrients thus far. I am probably feeding every second day at 50% recommended nutrients, Would I be to late in their life cycles to change the nutrient percentages down lower ? Thanks very much sir
 

celticlyle

Active Member
Don't beat ya self up over a first grow in a decade bud & sounds like you got reasonable good yield.

Growing different strains all at the same time is tricky as in different growth rates & flowering time some are high yielders whilst others seem on the low side then you got phenotypes ... so you can not expect them all to be equal.

Also light source is questionable.
Thanks man, I feel better now Haha. I never really considered that the particular Pheno's that I had could also have been on the lower yielding sides of the strain. I think I also just expected to get more which I guess I should have, however mistakes have been learned from!
I have decided to run a few more grows with my lights just to see if the are worth upgrading or not. I have been very intrigued by the growers choice lights.. But i think i need to get my growing techniques nailed down before I go and make a massive upgrade like that from my blurple bad boys!:ganjamon:
 

celticlyle

Active Member
I’m the greenest greenhorn in the land but wanted to chime in...

Years ago I put a 8 catfish fingerlings in a 20 gallon aquarium - they lived but never grew. Reality is one or two POSSIBLY could have survived but there was not ample environment for 8 fish. If I wanted a catfish to not only survive but actually thrive then I needed to put them in a pond not an aquarium. One photoperiod plant that has been properly topped and trained can easily fill a 3 X 3 or a 4X4 tent wall to wall.

My first grow I pulled 930g wet off a single plant trained manifold style in 4X4, that was because of previous failures at growing plus an intense study here at 420 Magazine. The final yield on that 1 plant was just over 8 zips dry weight. Yes I got lucky and the manifold was basically a scrog except I could spin the container & plant around in the tent for maintenance.

Doc used to say 3 most important variables are environment, environment, environment.

I’m a soil grower and I exploit the wet dry cycle heavily by waiting for plants to wilt and droop during veg cycle, plus use up-canning to build massive rootball, that coupled with topping, training, defol & lollipopping all helps. Don’t forget monster croppping and supercropping both help drive yields up.

However since you are coco you need to feed every day is my understanding, coco cannot be allowed to dry out or it becomes hydrophobic so you can’t do the wet dry cycle thing.

There is nothing wrong with the light you’ve got, yes it’s blurple but at 600 watts should be able to produce good bud. I’m not good on the hydro nutes & techniques tho since I’m a soil guy.

You are doing good tho keep studying here! You will drive more & better yields with practice.
Thanks very much for the lengthy reply sir, Life got in the way this week I have only found time to get back on here this evening. Very nice job on your first grow from only one girl well done indeed! Your words are very wise and also common sense that I have simply overlooked. I guess the main reason I chose 4 plants was because I wanted a higher yield and I thought more was more Haha, however your catfish reference screams common sense. I shall try running 3 or less in my next grow and keep the scrog the same size which will also allow me to up the container sizes they should be able to thrive more individually. Mine are only 16 liter fabric pots but I do up potting and They fill the pots with nice white roots. Like you said I just need to do more reading and get my feeding regime dialed in to perfection.
 

Redcup

Active Member
You had a pretty good first run and now you can certainly do better. I have been growing in coco for a while and getting very good results; its a very easy and productive medium.
Here are some tips for you,

1. Rinse and buffer your coco with calmag before using. Coco will immobilize calcium and exchange it with sodium until the cec points are saturated.
2. Use a cal mag supplement, per item 1
3. Practice high frequency fertigation (fertigatio=irrigation+fertilization) - irrigate with your nutrient fertilizer as often as possible, at least two but preferable four times a day. Treat coco as a hydro media and never let it dry, never use plain water. frequent fertigation pushes oxygen to the roots and makes sure the nutrient balance is correct at the root zone.
4. Fertigate till you get at least 20% runoff each time. That will flush excess salts out of the medium. Your N problem was possibly salt buildup and lockout. You can monitor your runoff ec and if its too high, flush with higher runoff.

If you want to learn about defoliation, there are some good vids on the black dog led site. I have no affiliation with their product but the grow videos are very good.

happy growing, you will be over a gram a watt in no time :)
 

celticlyle

Active Member
You had a pretty good first run and now you can certainly do better. I have been growing in coco for a while and getting very good results; its a very easy and productive medium.
Here are some tips for you,

1. Rinse and buffer your coco with calmag before using. Coco will immobilize calcium and exchange it with sodium until the cec points are saturated.
2. Use a cal mag supplement, per item 1
3. Practice high frequency fertigation (fertigatio=irrigation+fertilization) - irrigate with your nutrient fertilizer as often as possible, at least two but preferable four times a day. Treat coco as a hydro media and never let it dry, never use plain water. frequent fertigation pushes oxygen to the roots and makes sure the nutrient balance is correct at the root zone.
4. Fertigate till you get at least 20% runoff each time. That will flush excess salts out of the medium. Your N problem was possibly salt buildup and lockout. You can monitor your runoff ec and if its too high, flush with higher runoff.

If you want to learn about defoliation, there are some good vids on the black dog led site. I have no affiliation with their product but the grow videos are very good.

happy growing, you will be over a gram a watt in no time :)
Wow thanks very much for the advice. I also believe my N toxicity was because of lockout. Through most of the plants life's I did water to a satisfactory run off but I guess I got lazy mid cycle before flower which bit me in the ass week 3 flower.
I have been hand feeding this whole time but I would easily invest in a drip system with a timer set up if this would be better overall for my coco ? My plants are actually showing slight sighns of calcium deficency in this run so maybe I should up the cal mag however I am in flower with them week 1.
How do you feed as in what method like drip system or watering can? I shall invest in an EC meter I have only been PHing my water.:lot-o-toke:Thanks very much for that list of tips, this is exactly what I am looking for some advice from coco veterans! I am off to look at more Fertigation stuff.
 

Redcup

Active Member
I have an auto watering system using a small submersible pump in a bucket, on a programmable timer, connected with rainbird tubing to some watering halos. The timer runs for about 15s every couple hours. The containers drain down under my grow tables to a bucket. Its not very expensive to set up, and it will change your life :) i fill the feed reservoir once a day, and empty the runoff.
an EC meter is cheap and well worth having, you can make sure your runoff ec is not excessive, so you know if you need to flush.
 

Manchester2020

Well-Known Member
Hi guys and girls hope everyone is doing well this weekend. I have just harvested my 3rd grow which was my 1st grow in over 10 years.
I was growing in coco coir mixed with Perlite 70/30 feeding Advanced Nutrients bottles hydroponic feed for coco using grow & A+B bloom A+B with cal-mag, big bud, overdrive. I am in a 1x1x2m tent with a x2 Vipaspectre 600w R series LED lights (570w at wall ish) it set up with a stable environment usually siting around 18-28C with 40-50%RH. I was not using a PPM meter only a PH pen and was feeding at around 5.8 til week 3 of flower then upped to 6.0 ( i fluctuated in small amounts of PH each time so i wasn't feeding at dead on same PH every feed I also used nutrients every feeding)
I am using extraction system with carbon filter, x3 fans and 1 osculating canopy fan, dehumidifier, heater in case in drops below like 17C and it never exceeds 29C where I stay and that is for a very small period during the hottest days outside of my grow room.
I was using the SCROG technique and had quite a nice even canopy but I did have quite a DEEP canopy so I recon this could have resulted in lessened yields due to the lower sites taking up energy. I did have the plants lollipoped but I guess my canopy was way to deep at around 18".
I also have a slight nitrogen toxicity during week 3 of flowering with one of my strains OGCDK which was recovered but will have still resulted in lesser yields.
I was growing 5 plants all photo-periods in the 1x2m tent 2 of which were small runts and made up the spare corner by themselves. The small runts and 1 of the LARGE plants were OG Candy Dawg Kush from seedstockers. These had the nitrogen toxicity during week 3 so I recon that definitely had a part to play in their yields. The other 2 large plants in the tent where LA confidential from DNA Genetics and also a Banana Glue from growers choice.

Basically I only got 202 Grams of dry bud from this grow the 2 small plants basically produced nothing maybe an 0z between them and the other 4 made up the 6+ that i got.
Banana glue ( 1 plant ) was 40g
OG candy dawg kush ( 1 plant + 2 runty plants )was 87.5g
LA confidential was 75g ( 1 pla

I am not gonna lie I am quite dissapointed with the yields even though It was only really 3 full sized plants plus the 2 runts in a 1x1x2m tent.
I recon Having my canopy too deep height wise was my down turn here as I got heaps of drulshy fluffy buds at the bottom of the canopy so they are all wasted energy. I have also learned my lesson with feeding the nutrients at the recommended doses.
Any advice or help is greatly appreciated as I am just looking to be a better grower. The quality of the bud I have is very good, All the top buds are very resinous THC covered and dense hard buds but the bottom stuff is just going to make some shatter lol.
I'm anew grower but could it possibly be a light issue maybe not enough light for them to share
 

013

Well-Known Member
Hey Manchester,

He’s pumping 600 watts of blurple in a space that’s slightly bigger than a 3 X 3 so that’s not bad. The 930g harvest I mentioned was done with single plant plus one 315 watt cmh. He is using good genetics and has ample setup - I could be wrong but I think he’s looking to up his game without shelling coin for new equipment.
 

Manchester2020

Well-Known Member
Hey Manchester,

He’s pumping 600 watts of blurple in a space that’s slightly bigger than a 3 X 3 so that’s not bad. The 930g harvest I mentioned was done with single plant plus one 315 watt cmh. He is using good genetics and has ample setup - I could be wrong but I think he’s looking to up his game without shelling coin for new equipment.
You got 930g off one plant?
 
Top Bottom