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Emmie's Vegan Fertilizer, Mega Crop, Pineapple Chunk 2020 Celebration: Experimental Soil Grow

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
i Have been feeding this girl 6g/g at 5.8/6.2 ph in coco loco at the first sign of cal-mag d deficiency I piped up the .5g suggestion that is common the deficiency did not soread and seems contained but now the plants seems to have hit some other form of defficiencies wich looks like nitrogen to me. I am a bit confused as to hats actually going on. The leaves seems a nice deep green with bearly any burning. I was actually going to scale back the dose but am now a bit worried since the yellowing has occurred.any advice ?
unfortunately, your problem looks exactly like what we have been seeing all around the forums, it appears to be a potassium lockout caused by giving way too much MC. You called that a nice deep green... no, that is an alarmingly too deep of green, showing that you are having a Nitrogen overload, and it definitely is not MegaCrop green.
Since you are overloading the plant with N, you are also overloading it with Magnesium and Calcium, which are coming in at the same percentage of overage as the N is. Too much Mg and Ca will lock out Potassium, and that is what your leaves are showing you... a potassium deficiency. Since we know that there is plenty of K in the MC mix, we know that it is not a typical deficiency, but instead, that which is there is being locked out.

My monster plants are getting along fine with 4.5g of MC. I suggest that you immediately cut your MC dosage to 5g and maintain that for several waterings to see if the plant can recover from this over fertilization quickly. The damage you now see will not go away, but if you act now, you can keep it from getting a whole lot worse, but also keep in mind that your plant now is loaded up with 2 or 3 days worth of 6g MC, and its effects will not go away until the plant has had a chance to process all the nutes you last gave it... any changes you make now are not going to be seen for at least a few days.
 

Buds Buddy

Well-Known Member
Lookin' Good ! Gotta lotta reading to do to catch up.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Hiya @Buds Buddy ! Glad to have you here reading the truth instead of a bunch of conjecture that is not being backed up by any observable facts at all. Sorry you got in the middle of that, but I only spoke up because I have known you for a long time and I really wanted to help you not get in the same trouble I got in following the advice from the good old boys club. Now I am highly ticked off, and I am working on my response... so please put on any available kevlar... it is about to get hot up in here.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
[QUOTE @MrSauga said, while misspelling harassing:]Seriously @Emilya? Are you going to troll every member that is about to use Megacrop? If they want to visit your journal and the inaccurate information they will. Please stop harrassing members. They know how to reach you if they choose to. [/QUOTE]

Now I have done it. I have upset Mr Popularity himself. Because I hold an opposing opinion, I have been told to stifle myself. I have been told to stay on my own threads. Ladies, this is what I have been fighting since I came on these forums... the good old boys club.

@MrSauga, I challenge you right here and now to come in here and explain in your own words for one and all exactly what inaccurate information I am putting out. Until I started the pull back from your abundant and horrible advice on the threads to solve EVERY problem with yet more MegaCrop, you were pushing people, including me, to that 6g limit and beyond. Only now have you started calling for more restraint because you are seeing that several people have come around to my way of thinking.
Next, you seem to be totally unable to explain the problems people are having with their grows, while I have helped several wean themselves back from the excess while being able to explain what it was causing. Please explain to me and the others the reasoning you have in insisting to me several times now that it is not a calcium overload, mixed with a magnesium overload, that is causing the lockouts we are seeing... or are you insisting that these are not lockouts, but deficiencies, needing yet more MC? Explain to us why so many are having problems, yet I have solved mine.

So far I have seen you solve no one's problems in their bloom time gardens. Instead, I see all you good old boys slapping yourselves on the back for finishes with dying leaves, saying that is how you like it... yep, I planned it that way. Yeah... right. You can't tell me that a plant that finishes out needing potassium so bad that all of its sun leaves have crisped out is going to be as good as it could have been if it had been fed properly. So explain to me why all these problems are occuring for so many people following your advice, many with the same exact problems after ramping up to your recommended amounts, so please explain so that your adoring crowd can hear your words of wisdom about this matter and why it is that the little girl from Missouri is so terribly wrong when she explains the mechanism that is causing the problems.
Another observation my dear... When one person can take the products produced by a company and make them work well together, simply by following the directions that came with the product, and the other insists that supplements the company makes are poison and harmful to the grow, because in his opinion, it is all in there and unneeded... who logically has figured out how to use the product as produced? One person here is right, the other is terribly wrong... logic can help us figure out who is who.
How about asking intelligent questions when contacting Megacrop that would answer the questions at hand, instead of designing a question and answer trying to disprove my calcium theory? Are you afraid of the answer you will get if you phrase it as I suggested? Of course you are. What would happen to your tiny male ego if you were shown up by that formerly mentioned little girl in Missouri?

I am not going to put up with being called a troll over and over by your minions every time I wish to jump on a megacrop thread and make a comment. Come on Sauga... you have been officially challenged. If you think I am going to stifle myself and head off to the kitchen so that you can hold court over anyone and everyone wanting to experiment with Megacrop... you have not figured out the type of person I am. That is too bad for you. Back up your words now... everyone on the board now knows that this has come down to you and me and the deck seems to be stacked solidly against me. Now is your chance. The crowd is on your side. Take your best swing. I will wait.
 

MrSauga

Photo of the Month: Sept 2018, Nov 2019 - Member of the Month: Feb, Dec 2019
Oof..
 

Cannygrow

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your sound advice and speedy answer Emy Unfortunately I to gave in to the hype of ramping up to the famed 6g/g and have learned a lesson. If only I would’ve been more disciplined in reading your thread I could’ve avoided the problem altogether, this new technology sure is tricky and for someone like me that doesnt have much experience the guidance of people such as yourself and other is literally priceless...
unfortunately, your problem looks exactly like what we have been seeing all around the forums, it appears to be a potassium lockout caused by giving way too much MC. You called that a nice deep green... no, that is an alarmingly too deep of green, showing that you are having a Nitrogen overload, and it definitely is not MegaCrop green.
Since you are overloading the plant with N, you are also overloading it with Magnesium and Calcium, which are coming in at the same percentage of overage as the N is. Too much Mg and Ca will lock out Potassium, and that is what your leaves are showing you... a potassium deficiency. Since we know that there is plenty of K in the MC mix, we know that it is not a typical deficiency, but instead, that which is there is being locked out.

My monster plants are getting along fine with 4.5g of MC. I suggest that you immediately cut your MC dosage to 5g and maintain that for several waterings to see if the plant can recover from this over fertilization quickly. The damage you now see will not go away, but if you act now, you can keep it from getting a whole lot worse, but also keep in mind that your plant now is loaded up with 2 or 3 days worth of 6g MC, and its effects will not go away until the plant has had a chance to process all the nutes you last gave it... any changes you make now are not going to be seen for at least a few days.
 

The Celt

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE @MrSauga said, while misspelling harassing:]Seriously @Emilya? Are you going to troll every member that is about to use Megacrop? If they want to visit your journal and the inaccurate information they will. Please stop harrassing members. They know how to reach you if they choose to.
Now I have done it. I have upset Mr Popularity himself. Because I hold an opposing opinion, I have been told to stifle myself. I have been told to stay on my own threads. Ladies, this is what I have been fighting since I came on these forums... the good old boys club.

I am not going to put up with being called a troll over and over by your minions every time I wish to jump on a megacrop thread and make a comment. Come on Sauga... you have been officially challenged. If you think I am going to stifle myself and head off to the kitchen so that you can hold court over anyone and everyone wanting to experiment with Megacrop... you have not figured out the type of person I am. That is too bad for you. Back up your words now... everyone on the board now knows that this has come down to you and me and the deck seems to be stacked solidly against me. Now is your chance. The crowd is on your side. Take your best swing. I will wait.
[/QUOTE]

Well said Emilya, science and observation will always win out over popular belief. If not, we would still be viewing the earth as flat.

RC
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Thank you everyone! ... we now move on.
Final Bloom, Day 42
Today I want to show you something. As you all know, following the popular advice I ended up with a potassium deficiency right in the middle of stretch. I have shown you the crinkled leaves in my upper canopy that were the precursor of all those grows we are seeing where the sun leaves end up crispy critters at the finish. Since reducing the MC back down to the needed values, a remarkable thing has happened. Those sure to be gonner leaves are repairing themselves. They are starting to flatten out and be a larger part of the system again. Sure, they have battle scars, but the point is that they are coming back. How often have you seen that? Clear proof that we have isolated the cause and the solution.
DSCF7921.JPG

Also please note that right on time, at the beginning of week 7, we are entering the last stage of bloom. The clear indicator I have been waiting for occurred during this watering cycle, just a few of the very tip top white pistils have now started to curl over and change color. We are in the finish now!
DSCF7908.JPG
DSCF7907.JPG

Speaking of that finish, let me show you something else. All formerly damaged leaves on the plant are still there, horizontally aligned and happy to be alive. I have not lost one leaf. Not one. Nothing is yellowing, nothing is dying. This is the proper way to grow a weed. I give you shots all over the plant of happy MegaCrop green leaves... nothing in distress.
DSCF7919.JPG
DSCF7915.JPG
DSCF7920.JPG

This is using microbally speaking, dead mineralized soil, given superior contact with the roots with @Vulx, never once even thinking about checking pH of my soil or my nutrient solutions, using tap water for gosh sakes, with no worries about chlorine... basically doing everything wrong. Megacrop obviously.... let me repeat that for those with blinders on, obviously does not care.

Here are the big beautiful tight trichome packed buds that obviously are happy that I am their gardener
DSCF7916.JPG
DSCF7911.JPG
DSCF7910.JPG
DSCF7909.JPG
 

Bush Doctor 77

Well-Known Member
Late to this party, and have one concern. I always operated on the assumption that more N in the final product is bad. Oxidation products of N can have a negative impact on health. I am sorely tempted to try MC, but what about the fact that N is never reduced through bloom, as almost all other nute schedules do? Does that lead to higher N levels in the final product. I was also under the impression that higher N makes burning harder. Haven't read all the posts, so sorry if my post is redundant.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Late to this party, and have one concern. I always operated on the assumption that more N in the final product is bad. Oxidation products of N can have a negative impact on health. I am sorely tempted to try MC, but what about the fact that N is never reduced through bloom, as almost all other nute schedules do? Does that lead to higher N levels in the final product. I was also under the impression that higher N makes burning harder. Haven't read all the posts, so sorry if my post is redundant.
No problem Doc, I did cover it a while back, mentioning that I was planning on reducing the MC even more here in late flower, for close to the same reason as you give. I am pretty confident that a good cure will remove any chemical tastes or health impacts, but the jury is still out on all that. I do feed my plants right up to the end so that they can finish with all the power mother nature gave them the capability to produce. I do reduce N at the end because the plant doesn't need a lot of it at that point because it is done growing green leaf. I want my plants to concentrate on finishing the buds, and that requires a lot of P and K, but not massive amounts of N. I will be reducing my MC to 4g next week, while maintaining the extra PK and other stuff by using the supplements.
This knowledge shouldn't preclude you from trying Megacrop in any way. I am proving over and over again in this thread that the amount of MC you give should depend on many factors, always keeping one eye on the nutritional needs of the plant at that stage of life, but that you should absolutely not go by the suggested rates either on the website or in popular discussion. Read your plants, noting the color especially, and respond accordingly.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone! ... we now move on.
Final Bloom, Day 42
Today I want to show you something. As you all know, following the popular advice I ended up with a potassium deficiency right in the middle of stretch. I have shown you the crinkled leaves in my upper canopy that were the precursor of all those grows we are seeing where the sun leaves end up crispy critters at the finish. Since reducing the MC back down to the needed values, a remarkable thing has happened. Those sure to be gonner leaves are repairing themselves. They are starting to flatten out and be a larger part of the system again. Sure, they have battle scars, but the point is that they are coming back. How often have you seen that? Clear proof that we have isolated the cause and the solution.
DSCF7921.JPG

Also please note that right on time, at the beginning of week 7, we are entering the last stage of bloom. The clear indicator I have been waiting for occurred during this watering cycle, just a few of the very tip top white pistils have now started to curl over and change color. We are in the finish now!
DSCF7908.JPG
DSCF7907.JPG

Speaking of that finish, let me show you something else. All formerly damaged leaves on the plant are still there, horizontally aligned and happy to be alive. I have not lost one leaf. Not one. Nothing is yellowing, nothing is dying. This is the proper way to grow a weed. I give you shots all over the plant of happy MegaCrop green leaves... nothing in distress.
DSCF7919.JPG
DSCF7915.JPG
DSCF7920.JPG

This is using microbally speaking, dead mineralized soil, given superior contact with the roots with @Vulx, never once even thinking about checking pH of my soil or my nutrient solutions, using tap water for gosh sakes, with no worries about chlorine... basically doing everything wrong. Megacrop obviously.... let me repeat that for those with blinders on, obviously does not care.

Here are the big beautiful tight trichome packed buds that obviously are happy that I am their gardener
DSCF7916.JPG
DSCF7911.JPG
DSCF7910.JPG
DSCF7909.JPG
Amazing info into final bloom, mine should be reaching this stage if not already then throughout this week they should. I do see pistils starting to peel back and curl as well! I do notice your watering has stayed consistent at every couple days. Im finding more days in between my waterings without the need to top because half inch down still quite damp. Im listening to the girls instead of a set watering schedule.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Amazing info into final bloom, mine should be reaching this stage if not already then throughout this week they should. I do see pistils starting to peel back and curl as well! I do notice your watering has stayed consistent at every couple days. Im finding more days in between my waterings without the need to top because half inch down still quite damp. Im listening to the girls instead of a set watering schedule.
I am going to have to go back through my watering guide and put in bold the parts about how I change my watering pattern at the end of stretch. It's my belief that while in veg we should tease out the water, enticing the roots to grow, but once we hit bloom it is time to use those roots, from then on pushing water at them as fast as they will take it and not caring anymore if the soil stays a little damp. On that day I forced the plants to go from a root growing three day wet/dry cycle to a let's see how much they will take, two day cycle.
 

The Celt

Well-Known Member
@Emilya,

I know from past conversations with you, when I was here a few years back, you were quite up on organics and soil science research.

Your post about teasing out the roots with your watering made me think of an article I read some time ago in regards to phosphorus, root development and mycos. The gist of the article was about soil phosphorus levels. It found that soils with high phosphorus levels promoted better root development and mycos were less prevalent.

This got me to thinking about a 2 tier soil, in the pots, with low phosphorus making up the center and high phosphorus at the bottom and around the edges to promote root expansion. Not something I have had time to try, maybe next grow if I get caught up on house renos before I go back to work.

Have you ever come across similar info? And what are your thoughts?

RC
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
@Emilya,

I know from past conversations with you, when I was here a few years back, you were quite up on organics and soil science research.

Your post about teasing out the roots with your watering made me think of an article I read some time ago in regards to phosphorus, root development and mycos. The gist of the article was about soil phosphorus levels. It found that soils with high phosphorus levels promoted better root development and mycos were less prevalent.

This got me to thinking about a 2 tier soil, in the pots, with low phosphorus making up the center and high phosphorus at the bottom and around the edges to promote root expansion. Not something I have had time to try, maybe next grow if I get caught up on house renos before I go back to work.

Have you ever come across similar info? And what are your thoughts?

RC
Hi @The Celt ! It is good to see you again, and yes I remember some excellent conversations in the past.

Yes, P is a funny one and it takes some good understanding of the plant biology to understand what is happening to allow a plant to use P that is stored in the soil. For some good reference, check out the works of Lynch J (1995) Root architecture and plant productivity. Plant Physiol 109:7–13 and ↵ Smith SE, Read DJ (1997) Mycorrhizal Symbiosis. (Academic Press, San Diego, CA).

P in soil is hard for the plants to get to and roughly 80% of it is going to be immobile and in an unusable form. The problem becomes worse because the microbes also release an immobile form of P and in general, P is overall in low availability in most soils.

So the trick to getting better P response is to do as you are suggesting and have multiple forms of P available in different zones in the container, for this allows for specialization in those areas. The best way to increase the availability of mobile P is to increase your root size, as more surface area allows for more overall absorption. The biggest factor you can easily change to allow for natural P mobility and mobility into the plant is in the development of myco all through the container. These fungi effectively increase the surface area of the roots, allowing for more interchange, and more ability to use the P that is there.
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
DSCF7910.JPG


I just wanted to make a side observation here about the tomato cages. Portable 3 tiered trellises are perfect for supporting this plant and I am sad that I had never tried this before. I was just looking at my bamboo collection and my strings and clips, realizing that these heavy buds would have been all over the place with most every other support system I have tried. Nothing would have still been vertical unless somehow I had strung the drooping buds up to a strong pole.
Look at this crop. OMFG. These plants have never experienced vertical hardship... always having the support they needed. The results of using these cages, along with the silica in MC making them strong and the good genetics of these seeds, is astounding me in many ways during this stellar grow... never before have I been able to achieve this sort of vertical strength, naturally.
Note to myself: Do this again.
 

780grow

Well-Known Member
DSCF7910.JPG


I just wanted to make a side observation here about the tomato cages. Portable 3 tiered trellises are perfect for supporting this plant and I am sad that I had never tried this before. I was just looking at my bamboo collection and my strings and clips, realizing that these heavy buds would have been all over the place with most every other support system I have tried. Nothing would have still been vertical unless somehow I had strung the drooping buds up to a strong pole.
Look at this crop. OMFG. These plants have never experienced vertical hardship... always having the support they needed. The results of using these cages, along with the silica in MC making them strong and the good genetics of these seeds, is astounding me in many ways during this stellar grow... never before have I been able to achieve this sort of vertical strength, naturally.
Note to myself: Do this again.
Just happen to pick up 2 tomatoe cages plus random bamboo sticks last week for $7 :)....will be putting it to use for sure! When do you typically have the tomatoe cages attached to pot, during veg or around stretch?
 

Emilya

Member of the Month: Mar 2019 - Grow Journal of the Month: Jan 2020
Just happen to pick up 2 tomatoe cages plus random bamboo sticks last week for $7 :)....will be putting it to use for sure! When do you typically have the tomatoe cages attached to pot, during veg or around stretch?
Once I am in my final container, anywhere around the 6th week of veg they are still pretty manageable and it is easy to slip the lower parts of the cage around them as you drive the legs as deep as they can go into the soil. I am in 5gal smart pots, but I wouldn't want to go any smaller than that with them.
 
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