Emmie's Vegan Fertilizer, Pineapple Chunk 2020 Celebration: Experimental Soil Grow

[StoneOtter]

It's a good day!

 

[Homer Simpson]

It is nice to be able to get out and about again, but while I was gone the world changed. This is now a new reality, and I don't like what we are seeing, not just in the grocery stores, but in the attitudes of our fellow citizens. People be crazy, and it seems now they have a license to do so. It is just going to get worse too, at least for now... I hear that my county now has 9 cases and they are strongly considering a stay at home order. Great.... just great.

Homer, let me claw back just a wee little bit of that praise with a little scolding. Remember what they say at the GLN website, go for the green and at any sign of damage, pull back.

Do not think of that big number 6 at the top end of the feeding recommendations as a goal... it is a top limit in their eyes, and it should be in yours too. It is going to take a lot of convincing to make me want to give the maximum recommended dosage of any of the GLN products in the future to my plants, no matter how precocious I may believe them to be. The reason for the scolding here is that you are seeing spotting in the upper growth, you made an assumption about the lights, and moved on forward toward that final goal of 6g... plus some more.

Yes, it makes sense that the damage being seen is in the top growth, not just because of the type of deficiency that it is, but also because that is where the most intense light is, so that is also where the most intense photosynthesis is going on too. This is the area that is going to show first signs of a problem.

Since the spotting is occurring in the upper growth, we know it to be a non-mobile deficiency, ie, that resource can not be moved around inside the plant from storehouses, it has to be coming in with each watering. But Ca problems can be deceiving. As you said, the problem picture charts can be confusing but with careful study you can see that not only can deficiencies in calcium can be ugly and result in rust colored, bronzed necrotic areas to form on the leaves, but overages of Ca can also be ugly... resulting in faded yellowing leaves with dark spots on them. With this one especially, it is important to know if you are seeing toxicity or deficiency...

But, always remember the words on the website... any sign of damage, back down the dosage. I strongly suspect that 6g/g is not your optimum level of MC and that now by introducing BE, you are likely to start seeing some interesting additional reactions. Too much Ca also means that you most likely also have too much N and Mg, since they are all balanced with each other in the MC dosage. Each one of these produces an antagonistic relationship with potassium, and now you have introduced more potassium. I suspect that you will now start seeing signs of other lockouts very soon and if/when you do, I want you to strongly consider backing your MC down a half a point to see what happens. I suspect we will all learn from your results.

Regarding drying and curing, I am just a little afraid of tupperware type containers since I have seen how easily this plastic product picks up odors. I am also not convinced about the seal on most of these cheaper containers, and have found that over time many of the Dollar Store containers are not exactly air or bug proof. While I like the idea of the wide mouth and ease of quick drying, I really trust the Mason/Ball jars for a tight seal that will last for years, because some of the pot I have produced 5-10 years ago is still around in jars, stored safely away. For the initial cure and drying, tupperware tubs and turkey bags might be fine, but I am always going to prefer glass. This long slow dry and cure that I am achieving right now has been a bit of a challenge to get dry down to the proper level, but I am very close to the point where it is going to hold at 64-65% for a month or more, with a weekly burp, and this cure is going to be righteously outstanding when it is done.

No doubt, people be crazy, for sure. We are being told to stay home and I haven’t been out of the house in a couple of weeks. I’m trying to take a Zen approach and so far I am doing well but I know at some point I will crack. The Internet sure makes things a lot easier; I am in touch with more people than before I was isolated thankfully (mostly).

Mercy sakes, I was clutching my pearls to see my precious praise being clawed back and receiving a proper scolding because I was under the mistaken impression I was being pretty conservative but I would much rather be scolded and learn something than receive false praise and gloat triumphantly with sick plants. So no need to ever hold back.

Although I think perhaps some of the disparity in our perceptions of what is conservative is due to the fact that I am using the second version of MC and I think you are using the third version? Because I remember vaguely you mentioning in your journal that you were down to about 4.5 g per gallon with one plant and you thought that was because you were using the latest version?

And I believe but I could be wrong that when Greenleaf was selling the version I have that they were recommending a maximum dose of 6.5 g per gallon so I was under the impression that I was still .5 g below the maximum for my version. So I honestly wasn’t rushing to get to that maximum instead I was going by the greenness of my leaves and I thought I was .5 under still. Also I am pretty certain I didn’t notice the spotting on my leaves till a couple watering’s after I increased to 6 g per gallon because my leaves were not that green. I still may deserve a scolding but that is my earnest defence.

I compared the light intensity at the 24 inches where I keep my canopy with my Megalight to actual afternoon sunlight today with a photographic light meter and the difference was three stops so that means the light hitting my leaves is 1/8 the intensity of what they would get outdoors so I don’t think it’s light burn so your theory makes a lot of sense. I know that’s ridiculously low but I grow way more than I need so I just give the plants what they need. My home electric bill last month with my mega light and a 300 W equivalent LED blurple for veg was only $103 and I still got 13oz. I stopped using fans this generation because that was one third of my growing electric cost and the plants don’t seem to notice. My growing philosophy is that of a lazy economical person under the guise of minimalism. But seriously I'm trying to find the cheapest easiest system I can.

In for a penny in for a pound! I will heed your conservative advice and reduce my MC .5 g per gallon. Because I thought I was under the max because of my version of MC I thought I was getting deficiencies but if you think it is toxicity I concede and agree to adjust down. I am only giving .25 g per gallon of BE and I am in week five of flower; would you eliminate the BE also?

Glad your curing is going well. Thanks for the input Emilya. I hope this mess makes sense because I wrote it will a head full of infused oil commanding the attention of a turnip.

 

[Homer Simpson]

"but overages of Ca can also be ugly... resulting in faded yellowing leaves with dark spots on them."

Your Ca overage sounds suspiciously like my recently dropped lower leaves.

 

[Emilya Green]

The version 2.5 that I have is pretty much the same mix as v 2.0, just ground up more, and I think it changed one of the numbers in the NPK balance upward by one. It also was my impression that they moved the upper maximum down after the move from ver 1 to ver 2, but I am not positive about the timing of that.

My plants being able to thrive at a lower dosage no doubt had to do with the Vulx in my soil. With better contact with the roots and better cation holding abilities, my maximum seemed to be much lower than most of the rest of the MC users, but I have seen the same signs of overages in many of our growers trying to push the 6g top, and everyone that I have convinced to lower the base MC down a bit, has seen positive results from that action.

The leaves that you show from the bottom of the plant seem to be damaged in a different way than what we were describing as the signs of a Ca problem in the top growth... this seems to be a different problem. Since we can assume that you are not having any deficiencies at 6g/g we have to consider whether the damage is indicating overages and/or lockouts.

Remember that all of the nutrient needs of these plants are so as to be able to build the buds... so any damage we see in the bottom leaves is a result of nutrients being moved from those bottom storehouse leaves up to supply the needs at the top, using the mobile nutrients that are able to be stored and moved around. There are only a few of these special mobile nutrients, so we know by seeing that damage that the problem is likely to be in the supply of NP or K.

The problem again seems to be all the extra Calcium and Magnesium coming in with the base MC. Phosphorus also has an antagonistic relationship with the extra Ca and Mg, and since it is being locked out and not able to get to the top buds, the plant is trying to cannibalize those lower leaves for what it needs, not realizing that all it needs is already in there. It seems counter intuitive, but I think the solution is not in adding more P, but instead, reducing the base load of the MC that is causing the dangerous overages of Ca and Mg.

 

[Mark Gordan Smith]

And, I am getting very stoned...very stoned indeed.

Christ, I'd like to have seen that......

 

[CADBOY]

Free at last... Free at last! I am officially out of quarantine as of tomorrow morning... and work is closed down due to a stay in place order. What a crazy and mixed up world it all became while I was in bed resting! Please make things all go back to normal.

I think I finally achieved the curing stage with the jars open most of the day again... We have been sitting stable at 65 for several hours now all closed up. I will check it again in the morning. May the curing finally commence!

Glad your out of quarantine. I'm still in mine, mine is voluntary isolation. Weak immune system sooo. Reading over these 45 pages. Like this tread

 

[Homer Simpson]

The version 2.5 that I have is pretty much the same mix as v 2.0, just ground up more, and I think it changed one of the numbers in the NPK balance upward by one. It also was my impression that they moved the upper maximum down after the move from ver 1 to ver 2, but I am not positive about the timing of that.

My plants being able to thrive at a lower dosage no doubt had to do with the Vulx in my soil. With better contact with the roots and better cation holding abilities, my maximum seemed to be much lower than most of the rest of the MC users, but I have seen the same signs of overages in many of our growers trying to push the 6g top, and everyone that I have convinced to lower the base MC down a bit, has seen positive results from that action.

The leaves that you show from the bottom of the plant seem to be damaged in a different way than what we were describing as the signs of a Ca problem in the top growth... this seems to be a different problem. Since we can assume that you are not having any deficiencies at 6g/g we have to consider whether the damage is indicating overages and/or lockouts.

Remember that all of the nutrient needs of these plants are so as to be able to build the buds... so any damage we see in the bottom leaves is a result of nutrients being moved from those bottom storehouse leaves up to supply the needs at the top, using the mobile nutrients that are able to be stored and moved around. There are only a few of these special mobile nutrients, so we know by seeing that damage that the problem is likely to be in the supply of NP or K.

The problem again seems to be all the extra Calcium and Magnesium coming in with the base MC. Phosphorus also has an antagonistic relationship with the extra Ca and Mg, and since it is being locked out and not able to get to the top buds, the plant is trying to cannibalize those lower leaves for what it needs, not realizing that all it needs is already in there. It seems counter intuitive, but I think the solution is not in adding more P, but instead, reducing the base load of the MC that is causing the dangerous overages of Ca and Mg.

I didn’t realize that only a few nutrients are mobile within the plant or in fact that any were; I learn something from every one of your posts.

Your analysis actually makes a lot of sense to me; from some of the charts I have I suspected that my lower leaves were showing signs of a phosphorus deficiency but I didn’t realize that calcium and magnesium had an antagonistic relationship with phosphorus so I was erroneously thinking I needed more phosphorus not less calcium and magnesium.

So yes, I agree now that you have opened my eyes; I think it makes a lot of sense to try cutting back my MC .5 mg per gallon and see if that helps my phosphorus lockout. Thank you again for the pertinent and timely tutelage because today is watering day.

 

[The Physicist]

This is an awesome journal! Lots of good info in here thanks for sharing everyone! Learning something new everyday here! Good luck!

 

[Rickstertp]

Ms. J is already up and bustling about the place, telling me it was nothing. I of course need more pampering than that and to meet my many needs, on my breakfast tray was an Emster's sized, neatly manicured pile of my latest harvest for me to attempt to cure myself with. My lady knows me well. That, a good Yorkshire tea, a toasted English muffin with homemade marmalade preserved with Drambuie on the top and I should be well on the mend.
With my friends on my laptop to keep me company, I am also happy.
Have a great day everybody!

Yorkshire tea? My wife would so approve, being a Yorkshire girl from Hull. I stole her from her family and brought her to this foreign country to live amongst us Yanks. I hope you are both feeling better. Yorkshire tea and cannabis ought to be able to cure anything!

 

[Emilya Green]

Yorkshire tea? My wife would so approve, being a Yorkshire girl from Hull. I stole her from her family and brought her to this foreign country to live amongst us Yanks. I hope you are both feeling better. Yorkshire tea and cannabis ought to be able to cure anything!

Good on you for managing to capture a well bred British girl! My Mum is a good Welsh girl from Swansea and a lot of my family still resides there. If it weren't for the ability to get some good English tea over here, I think I would go insane. Since all they gave me to get over this thing was amoxicillin and a zith pack, it must have been the tea and the Pineapple Crunch that cured me.

 

[Rickstertp]

You guys and your puny lockouts! This is my LSD-25 plant that had a lockout that progressed and progressed. I finally read through all this and cut back on my MC. I think that would have been the right answer from when the problem started. I was doing the whole MC+CM+Si thing which worked great for the plant right next to this, but this strain simply didn't wan't that much and me being a newb misread it. I'll still get an ounce or two of decent bud, but it's nowhere near what it should have been. Again, like Emilya says, learn to read your plant. Different strains can respond very differently. The same regimen in a Blue Dream'matic sitting right next to this has produced a plant that is the best I have grown and I'm sure is going to give me 5 oz of dried bud.

Here is the other plant by the way. With a full size bic lighter for reference:

 

[Deketx]

Just a heads up for those wanting to buy some Mega Crop. I just saw that the small bag, that's all I need, is delayed due to coronavirus and unavailable. But, all the larger more expensive options are still good to go....? Trying to figure that one out. Plus it's now 4-5$ more.

 

[Fudo Myoo]

Just a heads up for those wanting to buy some Mega Crop. I just saw that the small bag, that's all I need, is delayed due to coronavirus and unavailable. But, all the larger more expensive options are still good to go....? Trying to figure that one out. Plus it's now 4-5$ more.

That’s an easy one, taking a page from OPEC.

 

[Rosti]

Just a heads up for those wanting to buy some Mega Crop. I just saw that the small bag, that's all I need, is delayed due to coronavirus and unavailable. But, all the larger more expensive options are still good to go....? Trying to figure that one out. Plus it's now 4-5$ more.

The only “panic” buying I did this far throughout this pandemic is load up on megacrop. Haha I have enough nutrients for the next two years now... as soon as I saw that my other additives couldn’t be delivered I immediately placed my order of MC... if I run out of TP i can start using leaves lol

 

[CagedApe]

I went through and found your journal pretty exciting and scary at the end. Nice bud and nice grow.

 

[Emilya Green]

I went through and found your journal pretty exciting and scary at the end. Nice bud and nice grow.

Thank you Ape! I hope things are going well in your cage.
Things are much better here today as I sit in my favorite chair while doing some work from home and puffing on some of this latest harvest, still curing. The potency of this crop has increased to the point that I can no longer finish a joint before forgetting what I am doing. This pot is definitely in couch lock territory already, and it still is not even close to being fully cured. It is getting closer to being cured though and some more flavor is starting to pop out. As I look over at one of the jars I see that the hygrometer has crept back up to 69% overnight... it is time to burp for a while again today and see how many hours I can keep it in the cure range.

 

[ChefDGreen]

It’s like I’m reading my own narrative. I just burped the cookies n chem last night, it was at 65%. When I jarred it back up it went upwards to 68? Very odd. I think I might be actually tapping into the core moisture finally. My Star Pupil has been sitting at 62 for 3 days now, so that girls good to be forgotten for a month.

 

[Emilya Green]

Yes, being in the magic range of 59-65 is the key, and after about 5 days of finally a very steady 64-65%, everything has changed. Suddenly, I can't finish even a quarter of a joint before getting distracted. The smoke is now incredibly expansive in my lungs and small hits are necessary. The additional denseness to the smoke is noticeable, even on the exhale.

The taste and smell has suddenly changed too. The hay smell is mostly gone and now there is a tangy fruity flavor starting to take its place. It is the same with the taste of the smoke... something has changed and the smoke has become much smoother and more pleasant. The aftertaste is where it gets you... and I clearly taste a hint of pineapple.

The cure has started. In the next month things are going to get even better as all of the conversions take place. As I continue to notice milestones and changes in the cured product, I will continue to document what I find. The major point I am making with this slow ending to this journal is how long it sometimes takes to finally get to this point. How many of our first growers have the patience to wait till they get at least to here before using up all of their product? Keep in mind that right now we are over a month past the harvest date, and I am just now saying that this pot is ready to smoke... and then only provisionally, knowing that it will continue to get better and better.

I imagine that @ChefDGreen is at just about the same point and finally seeing this profound change in his product too. I would like to hear about what you are seeing?

 

[ChefDGreen]

I’ve been a bit more aggressive than you I think, because I burp my jars in refrigeration so it’s a tad more gentle on the outer moisture of the buds. Any jar over 62 got left on a tray in the fridge for at least 3 hours.

today 2 of my jars are at 62%, 1 is at 61, and the last is at 59. The green smell the jars all share is starting to give way. It’s still there a bit but now I can actually get real sense of their aromas. one of the biggest changes, and I think what you’re noticing Em is that our buds have reached a dryness where the plant material is capable of breaking down very fine. with almost no more active water the smoke’s not stifled by water vapor. I’ve noticed the same thing. My bong loads very nearly finish as fine white ash. Also the effects no longer have that steep come down right before the 2 hour mark. I feel myself floaty for 3-4 hours in total.

Terp profiles are starting to come out, but it will take a few more weeks for the depth of flavor to evolve. Now it’s important to open the jars as little as possible. I’ll be separating 15g of each to be going into so that I don’t have to touch the big jars and i can forget about them for a bit.

 

[Fudo Myoo]

Yes, being in the magic range of 59-65 is the key, and after about 5 days of finally a very steady 64-65%, everything has changed. Suddenly, I can't finish even a quarter of a joint before getting distracted. The smoke is now incredibly expansive in my lungs and small hits are necessary. The additional denseness to the smoke is noticeable, even on the exhale.

The taste and smell has suddenly changed too. The hay smell is mostly gone and now there is a tangy fruity flavor starting to take its place. It is the same with the taste of the smoke... something has changed and the smoke has become much smoother and more pleasant. The aftertaste is where it gets you... and I clearly taste a hint of pineapple.

The cure has started. In the next month things are going to get even better as all of the conversions take place. As I continue to notice milestones and changes in the cured product, I will continue to document what I find. The major point I am making with this slow ending to this journal is how long it sometimes takes to finally get to this point. How many of our first growers have the patience to wait till they get at least to here before using up all of their product? Keep in mind that right now we are over a month past the harvest date, and I am just now saying that this pot is ready to smoke... and then only provisionally, knowing that it will continue to get better and better.

I imagine that @ChefDGreen is at just about the same point and finally seeing this profound change in his product too. I would like to hear about what you are seeing?

Well I answered that question on my 1st grow. Zero patience. I couldn’t keep my hands out of the cookie jar and ran out when it was just getting really good. So In order to circumvent this problem, I’m growing 3 times as much lol. I mean I’ll try for moderation but hey, rather have it and not need it...