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FFOF/FFHF and a PH of 4.6? Help anyone?

Inthewind

New Member
Not a big poster...more of a lurker, but I'm having a major issue:

Strain - Bubblelicious, Cheese, Papaya (Germ 9 Nov, transplanted 22 Nov)
# of Plants - 9 (3 each)
Grow Type - Soil
Grow Stage - Vegetative
Bucket Size - 3 Gallon
Lights - (2) 1 - 600 MH 1 400 MH
Nutrients - None
Medium - 60% Ocean Forrest 30% Happy Frog 10% Perlite
Runoff PH - 4.6
Water used - RO, PH adjusted from 7.8 to 6.8 using PH down
RH - 55% to 65%
Room Temperature -65 - 78
Room Square Footage - 5 X 8
Pests - None
PH Meter - Oakton PH2

I just transplanted all of them into the 3 gallon pots about a week ago. I recognized slow growth but thought it may just have been due to the transplant. I also know that when I transplanted from sprout to the larger pots and put them under the Metal Halides I picked up a little leaf tip burn because I had the lights a little too close, or so I thought. Its a closed tube system with minimal heat, so maybe over exposure?

When I transplanted I used some "Quick Start" Vitamin B planting and transplanting solution, which I've used before and had zero issues with.

So, the 4.6 runoff is the issue. I tested the FFOF before I transplanted into it and it sat at 6.8, and the Happy Frog was about the same. I even have some of the mix left over that I used for the transplant and when I tested the runoff from that it was 6.4.

I'm baffled.

If I need to put up pics, I can do it tomorrow. The ones I have are just after transplant and not showing the issues.

I tried to do a "PH UP of RO to 9" feed tonight on two of the smaller ones to try to get the runoff PH up, but no luck.

Again, I'm lost. This will be my 4th soil and I have 3 hydros behind me and I've never had these issues. I'm pretty sure everyone will say that Dolomite lime would be the fix, but is that going to correct the issue or be a band-aid that keeps falling off? And, can someone tell me what the best way is to apply it? Add it to the top soil and water over it? I've never used it so I really don't know.:50:

Thanks in advance for ANY help. :Namaste:
 

Inthewind

New Member
Ok, heres the post burn.



I did 3 tablespoons each of Dolomite Lime tonight. They were ready for some water so I scratched in 2 and then watered in 1.

I guess the wait starts to the next watering to see if it's raised the PH to normal limits. I'm not feeding them yet because of the FFOF.
 

Inthewind

New Member
Hey Canabinerd
Thanks for the look. I've calibrated at 7.0 and 4.0 twice just to make sure it is what it is and thats why it has me baffled.

So, you think I should top dress even though I've already scratched in 2 and watered in 1?

Also, I watered today with 7.0, but only did 2 of them. I think I'm going to do the 6.5 flush tomorrow on the rest of them.

Does anyone think it could be something leeching from the containers?

So far I've checked the runoff on the FFOF and the FFHF alone and they were within range. Hell, I even checked the PH on the perlite today! 7.0! :6:
 

canabinerd

New Member
No, sorry missed that, if you've already given 3 of lime I would just flush the shit out of them and try to figure out what was causing it. You seem to have a good setup. I have no idea where it's coming from. I have used ffof with 20% perlite as the base of my mix for over a year now and have never had any issues like yours. I do ammend with about a cup of lime per bag though.
 

Inthewind

New Member
Yeah, I did a lot of reading on FFOF and was confident going in. And yeah, flushing the shit out of them is my only option right now because I've tested everything in the soil and the soil and it's all good.

I think they're picking up some since I did the lime. Well...at least 7 out of the 9. Heres some pics of growth from today.
















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Inthewind

New Member
Ok. I called Fox Farms today to try to get some ideas and ask them if this is something they've experienced before. I talked to Justin, who was really helpful and really gave me a warm fuzzy that he knew what he was talking about.

First he told me testing runoff isn't really the best way to get an accurate soil PH. He said that a slurry would give me a better read. He said to do it twice: Once at a 5:1 soil to RO water and once at 1:1, then average them for an accurate read.

After describing my issues he also said that my issues are more than likely due to Calcium/Magnesium deficiency as the RO water draws it out of the soil. Something about RO water having a memory and thats what sucks the nutrients out of the soil?

I haven't had time to do a slurry, but will tomorrow and I'll post the results. They needed a watering anyway so I did a 1/3 strength feed.

I'm cautiously optimistic.
 

Inthewind

New Member
They're definitely picking up after last nights feeding. :wood: Still keeping a close eye on them over the next few days though.

And I've got the room dialed in (62-night to 75-day and 40-60% RH). Finally got my dehumidifier and of course the humidity levels out! :19:
 

Marzbadrock

Plant of the Month: Sept 2015 - Nug of the Month: Jan 2016, May 2018, Aug 2020
Hope this helps someone!!! Do not PH any of your water or feed water. Do you have small rootballs, pH problem, nutrient deficiencies of ALL kind? Something about pH and foxfarm soils does not work!!!! I beg you to at least try with 1 pot as an experiment. You have to start from the beginning though, one drop of pH down in your dirt your fucked! Add extra perlite if you choose, use no nutrients for two weeks, then bump em with some nitro. 400 ppm. Until starting flower. Go easy on bloom nutes until buds have set. My plants have turned into pigs! The start of flower I'm hitting them with 1400 ppm of nitro and no burn just growth....lots of growth. Once budding i drop my grow to 700 ppm and 700 ppm of bloom. My roots are growing across the drain table now. I am now consistently pulling 1 lb. A month off a 1000w perpetual grow.
 

BudTester420

On Vacation
Hope this helps someone!!! Do not PH any of your water or feed water. Do you have small rootballs, pH problem, nutrient deficiencies of ALL kind? Something about pH and foxfarm soils does not work!!!! I beg you to at least try with 1 pot as an experiment. You have to start from the beginning though, one drop of pH down in your dirt your fucked! Add extra perlite if you choose, use no nutrients for two weeks, then bump em with some nitro. 400 ppm. Until starting flower. Go easy on bloom nutes until buds have set. My plants have turned into pigs! The start of flower I'm hitting them with 1400 ppm of nitro and no burn just growth....lots of growth. Once budding i drop my grow to 700 ppm and 700 ppm of bloom. My roots are growing across the drain table now. I am now consistently pulling 1 lb. A month off a 1000w perpetual grow.

I was going to say the same thing, your problem is most likey the ph down, then on top of that FFOF is kinda hot.

Plants grew great for thousands of years before human interaction and they never need ph down, that's what a good soil is for.

I also add epsom salt to my water 2 weeks before flowing, helps with that cal/mag issue that's usually present with FF.
 
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