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First Aid

Regor

New Member
Hi all, Long time reader, been through a LOT of posts, and just now experiencing my first grow. I've read plenty about it, and seen a lot of examples, but I'm throwing my concern out there for the "pro" Doctors of 420. It seems as though the more I read about the symptoms, the more things it could be. ;)

So, I'm hoping with some pics attached that someone might be able to point me in the right direction.

My leaves are turning yellow from the bottom up, with some brown, and now some curling.

SOIL GROW

Clone from local Dispensary. Have had plant for 2 1/2 weeks. Symptoms started approximately 4 days ago, and I transplanted to it's current medium at that time. When I did the transplant, it was just a little rootbound, but not bad. The heavier yellowing and the curling just started today.

The plant was appx 12" when we got it, and is currently at 15".

Strain - Indica Bubba Kush
# of Plants - 1
Grow Type - Soil
Grow Stage - Vegetative
Bucket Size - 3 Gallon
Lights - (4) 23 Watt (100w equivalent each) CFL running for 14hrs/direct sun for 4 additional hours
Nutrients - Soil - Edna's Best potting soil (70%), worm casing (10%), Perlite (10%), Vermiculite (10%)
PPM - ?
PH - soil is between 6.3-6.5, my "distilled water" is at 7.0
RH - 40%
Room Temperature -70 to 82
Solution Temperature - 70
Room Square Footage - 4' x 4'
Pests - None Known

Thx all !!


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Antics

420 Member
Hey welcome to :420:

Since you have your PH all situated, and assuming the PH has been under control the past week or so, the next thing I look at is nutes. And I see you're just using Worm castings and whatever was in the soil as nutrients.

It looks like you're showing a Nitrogen deficiency now, and you might need to use some additional nutes to supplement the plant. Avoid the time release nutrients whenever possible (the little pellets you sprinkle on the soil), and aim for a nutrient system that requires you to mix up a batch, where you can easily control the strength of the solution.
 

Regor

New Member
Any more details required? She's not looking pretty, and I'd hate to loose her :(

Could the mixture of 14 hours of CFL and 4 hours or direct sunlight be too much of a dramatic change?
PH seems fine. Have not added nutes yet but see my post above for new soil and medium.

Thanks in advance.
 

Antics

420 Member
I don't see an issue with the 14 hours of daylight and 4 hours of sun at all. I'd think your plant would actually love being able to enjoy a little real sunlight.

I'd get my hands on some nutrients to start feeding her. And when growing on a smaller scale you can easily buy the smaller 1 quart size, and it'll last you a long time. I have a 3 part system now, 1 quart size, and you're only mixing 2.5-20ml of it for each gallon, depending on which week of growth you're in. Growing 2-3 plants at a time, It should last me at least 3 years lol.
 

Regor

New Member
Thanks for the advise Antics. She's still struggling, and I don't seem to be making progress, although she is growing slowly. The new growth is coming in a bright green, but it's not taking long for it to be a more mellow green and still yellowing.

I've looked at all the charts that show leaf colors and the known deficiencies, and it just seems it could meet so many areas that I can't nail it down. Leaves curling/twisting, yellowing throughout (not just working from bottom up), most stems are purple, although the base is now green for about 4". It's right now at 15", so it's growing taller (slowly) but not really filling out.

I'm attaching some pics from just now, along with the steps I have taken since initially writing. Hopefully someone can put all my symptoms together from the pics and point me in the right direction.

6-18 Wed: Flushed with 3 gallons water with PH 6.0. Run-off was 6.5
6-22 Sun: Watered PH 6.5 & Dynagrow (1/4 tsp)
6-23 Mon: Foliar spray PH 6.0 & 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag
6-25 Wed: Foliar spray PH 6.0 & 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag

Soil dries on top fine, but when I go down appx 2-3" it still seems moist. I am trying to not overwater, but wonder if the soil mixture is just holding so much water, or if it always just seems moist but it has really dried out more than I think.

THANKS in advance....
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Antics

420 Member
The petiole (or stem) of the fan leaf will usually be a little reddish/purple, especially on top. That's completely normal.


Purple Stems
Now seeing that your WHOLE stem is purple, first we look at genetics, searching Bubba Kush, I'm seeing that purple stems is somewhat common.

If this wasn't the case, we'd look into nutrient deficiencies. So right now, the stem color isn't my top concern.

Perlite/Vermiculite, both are used to improve aeration, but Perlite is used to improve drainage, where Vermiculite is used to actually ABSORB water. IMO, the 10% of each has them fighting each other.

Your plant appears to have some stunted growth. The leaves don't seem to be getting as big as I'd like to see from a 3.5-4 week old clone.

I'd control my watering to start with. You mentioned that the soil is still moist 2-3" down, but how moist? Can you squeeze it and get water out? or just slightly damp? If slightly damp, wait another day or so between watering.

I'd also avoid disturbing the soil too much. You can have roots growing in as little as an inch of soil. Damaged roots can cause stunted growth, and similar problems to what you're seeing.

Next, you can move your lights closer. CFL bulbs can be 1"/2.5cm away, and it won't hurt the plant. If you have a fan blowing on the plants, make sure it doesn't blow any leaves into your bulb spirals, a leaf sitting against the bulb will dry out and that part will die in a very short time.

And it looks like you have a cent nutrient mix. I'm not familiar with NPK numbers and where they should be, but considering you're using soil, plus worm castings, cal mag, as well as dynagrow I would expect to see some kind of improvements soon.
 

Regor

New Member
Soil is slightly damp, as in it sticks to a finger, but not as in waterlogged.

Unfortunately, with the black planter, no way to know what my roots are doing.

Thanks for the help. Hard to sit here and wait it out, part of me is saying to transplant with a different soil mixture now, and to see what the roots are doing,,,, but the other side says be good and wait it out
 

Antics

420 Member
Ok for that nutrient, they suggest 1/4 teaspoon to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon to be used with every watering.

This will also depend on how often you water.. I wouldn't give nutes any more than once a week until you know how much the plant can handle. I'd also start out with the 1/4 teaspoon mix, and slowly increase the dose as the plant gets stronger again and the leaves aren't wilted anymore.

Just keep in mind, once a leaf is damaged, it usually won't repair itself, but when you have fixed the problem, the wilting/color changes of leaves/etc.. shouldn't get worse either.
 

Regor

New Member
Re: First Aid - You'd swear I was trying to kill this plant.

You'd swear I was trying to kill this plant. I guess It's a great learning tool, and I'm learning a lot, although not sure it's coming together for me yet.

It's looking pretty sad. I've let it go a lot longer between watering, and made sure the soil was dry pretty far down into the soil.

Still have to wonder if I should have gone with a smaller pot when transplanting, then step up again. This soil just seems to hold the moisture forever, and I fear my roots may not be healthy enough to handle the moisture from a 3 Gal pot. I also don't find a lot of reading on folks who have used Edna's Best potting soil. The other gotcha from the larger pot is that I don't seem to be able to control/administer water/nutes more frequently, since it only dries out once a week.

I have attached a lot of pics, to show how my lights are hung now, where she's housed, and detailed the watts, temp, etc...

The black planter is sitting inside a red bucket. This has helped to control the temps of the black planter, since it can get hot when the plant gets the free sun light during the day.

The lights are (4) 6500k 23 watt (100 equivalent). 6 hours off during the middle of the night, and a mixture of the lights and sunlight for the other 18 hours.

Temps with the fan running keep it at appx 70-80 degrees.

Here's what I've been doing lately:

6-26 Thu: Watered PH 6.5 & Dynagrow (1/4 tsp)
6-27 Fri: Foliar spray PH 6.0 & 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag
6-30 Mon: Foliar spray PH 6.0 & 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag
7-02 Wed: Foliar spray PH 6.0 & 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag
7-04 Fri: Watered, distilled PH 6.0-6.5 with 1/2 tsp Cal-Mag (per Gallon), From Watering: 75% absorbed /25% runoff @ 7.0 PH

Anyone ???

The CAN in the pics is just there to give everyone an idea of the size.

 

budstud

New Member
In post # 5 you said your phed water was 6 and your run-off was 6.5 which leads me to believe that the root-zone ph was closer to 7 or above, and that tells me your plant gives off hydroxyl ions when it absorbs nitrogen ions, that's why a rise of pH. You should switch nutrients. And, last post you say the run-off is 7, that tells me if your nutrients were phed to 6, your root-zone ph was closer to 8. I can definitely see the effects of the skewed root-zone ph with the P deficit... that doesn't usually happen until the ph elevates to around 7.6 The first two deficits to appear when ph rises is Fe and Mn...doesn't do that in this case due to your nutrients and the cal-mag application, it expresses more of the P deficit. Why Zn isn't showing has to be nutrient relative also. Best thing you can do for your girl is wash the root-zone gently with water and replant to a fresh substrate and better monitor run-off ph.

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachme...sted-leaves-some-tips-curled-down-phchart.jpg
 

Regor

New Member
Thank you for responding to a post for help. I have a question in regards to your advice.... You stated to "wash the root zone". I've searched hi and low but cannot find if you literally mean to remove the plant from its current soil and rinse roots clean then immediately transplant into a "fresh substrate "?

I have access to a really good hydro shop and supplies, just reading and trying to figure out what kind of mix I should switch to. I'm a small (1-2) plant medical user, so I do not need 55 gal of mix, but a nice small recipe to help me control my ph a bit easier.

Thx
Regor
 

budstud

New Member
Thank you for responding to a post for help. I have a question in regards to your advice.... You stated to "wash the root zone". I've searched hi and low but cannot find if you literally mean to remove the plant from its current soil and rinse roots clean then immediately transplant into a "fresh substrate "?

I have access to a really good hydro shop and supplies, just reading and trying to figure out what kind of mix I should switch to. I'm a small (1-2) plant medical user, so I do not need 55 gal of mix, but a nice small recipe to help me control my ph a bit easier.

Thx
Regor

Your initial assumption is correct. Wash the roots by gently plucking them from their pots and wash the medium from the roots. Any medium that's charged with lime and gypsum with no nutrients will suffice.
 

Regor

New Member
Re: First Aid Update

Well, she’s a tall lanky thing, but I’d have to say she’s looking much better since my last post 11 days ago. (7-7-14). Here’s a description of my actions, and pics below.

7-09 Wed: Replanted in ~1.5 gal yellow planter, FFOF 70%, 30% Perlite. I completely removed my girl from her past planter, washed the roots, and transplanted (as gently as I could). WISH I would have taken a pic of the roots, they were not rotted at all, but did not look very strong for the age of the plant.

After transplant - Watered with plain distilled @ ~6.5ph. Runoff - 7% ph

7-14 Mon: Foliar spray with Dynagrow (1/4 tsp p/Gallon), (was looking to inject her with some immediate meds while I was waiting for the roots to grab hold of the new soil and it’s nutes.

7-14 Mon: Watered with 20 oz ~6.5ph - runoff=5, re-watered with 20 oz 7.0ph - runoff=5.5, re-watered with 8.0ph - runoff ~5.5

7-15 Wed: Tested soil, ph=7.0. I was concerned after the CRAZY runoff levels on Monday (7-14), but after doing a soil test and reading about some of the fellow users results, I’m going to let her do her thing and see if she gets happy ☺

7-18: Fri: She’s thirsty and will get a watering in the morning. She definitely dried out a LOT faster in her new FFOF compared to her previous soil.

She is thriving and growing a LOT of bulk in the top 1/3, but she’s not much for putting on the weight at the bottom.

I don’t have a pic of it, but I have moved my lights a bit since my last post. I “had” 4 CFL in a basic X at the top of my plant. I’ve now moved those 4 lights so that I have 2 lights on each side of the plant, spaced so the whole length of the plant gets light.

I also have been putting her into the outdoor afternoon sun for 4 hours.
 
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Antics

420 Member
With proper drainage, that pot should probably last 2-4 days between waterings. You want the top level of soil to look completely dry. Then you want the soil that you cant see to become just slightly moist. Too much water will starve your roots of oxygen.

You should feed nutes about once a week, when feeding nutes, this also counts as watering, so don't add additional water the following day or anything. You've said you're PH'ing your water, and if this is still the case, my focus would be on making sure you have no pests. Little bugs flying around, or visible larva in the soil.

Too much water too often can attract some species of pests.

When did you last feed nutes/water? If it's been 3-5 days, I would mix up a batch at the 1/4 level, water a little, then stop giving water for about 6-7 days. Or until you see signs of wilting from lack of water. If it's been longer than 3-5 days, I'd mix a SLIGHTLY stronger batch, water until you see a LITTLE run-off dripping, not pouring out of the pot. Pour out the water that collects in the tray, you don't want your soil sitting in old stagnant water. And now do the same, just wait a week, or until you see signs of wilting from a lack of water.


You need to set a baseline and find out how quickly your water supply dries up/is consumed.

Cannabis likes an ebb-flow type of watering. It likes to receive a good healthy watering, and then nothing for days until the soil is almost completely dried up.
 

Regor

New Member
Although not a journal, I'm learning a LOT from this grow, reading a TON on 420, and listening to so much great advice !! So I do want to share a bit of what I am learning and where I'm going with this grow.

Got a few toys this week to help me look at my learning experience from a digital viewpoint. Ph & PPM meter. I have a basic ph test where you fill the vial and add drops, but the ph meter sure makes life easier and accurate.

So, it was time for a watering and nutes (listening to advice) and going from weight of the plant, time between watering, soil dampness, and history.

I started with 2 gallons of distilled water:
~ 6.8 ph, 009 ppm
~ Added 1/4 tsp Dynagrow (per gal) - 1/2 tsp total
~ Levels were now 5.4 ph, 108ppm
~ Added Ph up until I got 6.3 ph and 114 ppm

Watered with 24 oz of my mixture, 8 oz of runoff. Runoff was 6.0 ph, and 915 ppm.

Dry weight of plant and planter pre-water: 3 lbs 8.6 oz
Wet weight after watering: 4 lbs 7.5 oz
This should give me a better idea as I feel the weight before and after watering.

Home all day today, so she gets a good 8 hours of natural sun ;)
 

Antics

420 Member
Sounds like you're already starting a grow journal with this last post lol. You might as well get one going, mine was really helpful to me so I had a way to scroll back and see what I did, and change things if needed, and I have a first grow to look at to compare my current grow.

And you're dead on, the first grow seems like you learn the most, it's like a waterfall of knowledge all at once. And every bit you absorb will help make your grow, and every grow after, that much better.
 
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