First CFL Grow Using 30 Watt CFLs

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

also is special kush the same as royal kush cuz i got my for herbies head shop, fast delivery as well n the special kush seed was in its own cardboard holder and it had royal written on the top and special kush on the back with the picture, i had to rip open the cardboard to get to the foil press pack holding the seed, the cardboard piece was printed and had writing on it so it was done properly, the orther seeds i bought came in a white like pill box and in seperate small bags inside this pill box, just didnt know if the special k was the same as royal k

 

[Aaron Quix]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

so as i cant seem to get the pics on my profile, my plants all look healthy, the only concern i have is with the nl x bb fem as it seems to be not growing much its broke the soil but hasnt got much height to it, its leaves as growing small as well, formed properly but small, maybe thats the fem side of it, the bb and special k are growing well, stopped stretching now lights have been lowered, missed my delievery yesterday of 2 new lights so gota pick them up from sorting office so will be fitting those tomorrow morning, cant wait, n if i can get results as half as good as the ones ive just head the pleasure of c in under my journal, ill be chuffed

Remember...Patients The plants are establishing roots. You may not see the growth, but its happening...

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

Hi all, happy birthday to me today, the 13th, your right it is going to take time, but the difference from yesterday is huge, ive been out all day n got back a couple of hours ago and they have all grown loads, well i say loads, they have grown more today then they have over the last few days, had to raise the lights, also added more daylight bulbs now so its a lot brighter, just need to make a reflector to keep the light shining where i want it to, had to raise the lights as well, also the leaves looked a bit droopy so watered as the top but if soil was really dry, im thinking the routes maybe filling out a bit now, how long can i keep them in these small pots before putting them in bigger pots?

ive also ordered them mylar emergency blankets to line the walls and floor with as ive heard this reflects light better than just white paint, plus i can make my reflector out of this mylar as well so im hoping that should reflect the most light, i also think the plants have stopped stretching as they seem to be building the leaves more now, i cant believe how quick they have grown since last night, the difference is huge, well i think so, ill post the pics ive took tonight on here in the morning as its 1:30am and ive been up all day and took the dog for a run, well he ran n i rode my bike, n im more shattered than he is, anyway just thought id give an update, tonights pics will be on here in the morning and ill take pics tomorrow as well and if their is much difference ill post the pics as well.

now for the reason i watered the plants, the big bud plant looked like the leaves had dried out, now not sure if this is due to the light been so close or because i hadnt watered if for 2 days, i checked the heat from bulb and could hold it in my hand for as long as i liked, my temp gauge said the heat by the plants is about 20c so think thats ok, humidity is running between 45 and 55% so i think this is ok also, as its my birthday im stopping at my moms from tomorrow after noon for a few days, the timers are on and have ben working without problem so my timers will be ok for the lights, ill give them a good watering tomorrow and that should keep them going for the 2 days im away, ill raise the lights and make sure their not going to touch the plants,

could their be another reason why the big bud leaves looked limp and slightly shrivled, it looked to me as if it was drying out so thinking its lack of water, also when would you start giving nutes, not sure if the compost has got any added else it would say in teh back, all it says on the bag is contains john innes, now im not sure if this is the maker of the compost or added nutes, but i think if it had added nutes then it would give you a break down of whats in the comp,

is their any home made compost about tha i could make myself, i have heard fish food is good to use as compost additive, you know the fish flakes you can buy, well i read somewhere that thats is good for the plants, im unsure, prefer to buy nutes but if i can go totally organic then surely this has got to smoke better,

any advice, thanks

 

[jandre2k3]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

... picture 4, is my aerogrow system with one bulb in it, thats the black hood off the top of the aerogrow, i will be taking this out when i get more bulbs and will probably use this to veg clones while i flower the others off, i think the aerogrow is a tad to small to use to flower as well, the hood raises up but from the base to the light you only get about a ft and a half in overall height, ive never used the aerogrow it was given to me, it has the base with it that you put the seeds or cuttings into but dont know how to use it or anything like that, the other bulbs you see are 2 x 6700 30 watt cfls and 1 x 20watt 2700 for extra light spectrum, these lights will be added to as soon as i pick my new bulbs up, not sure if im gaining anything by mixing the lights but as the sun gives out both spectrums through the plants whole cycle then surely its got to do it more good than harm, or if im wasting my time and would be better sticking to 6700 only and then use only 2700 for flower then give me a shout back.
<snip>

Hehe. It's funny you should mention the AeroGrow. I have an AeroGarden Classic, which I bought some time ago. I removed the basin and only use the stand and lights for the very reason you mentioned. Cloning made simple.

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

thats exactly the same as mine, does yours have the built in timer that lets you choose tomatoe setting, exactly my idea, is the timer on that the same for all the settings, ie 18-6, i think i read somewhere that it has built in timer, i cant believe you have got exactly the same one as me, n were miles away, even countries away from each other, the bottom part had a pump in it that meant you didnt need to grow in compost but i wasnt sure where you get the round fittings that fit into the plug holes in the bottom part so im going to do the same as you and remove it, in fact ive wired up the top part without the bottom part so i can hang the hood and use it for extra lights for my plants, how wierd is that, never thought id hear of anyone else having one of these.

im just uploading todays pics in the next few minute, ive given them a good watering till it runs out the bottom of the pots, the water seemed to drain out really quick so ive placed them in bowls to stand in the water for a while but they wont be left in teh bowls just so they got time to soak water up cuz im going away for 2 days so need to make sure their watered properly,

would it be a good idea to add nutes at this stage, not sure whats in the compost im using

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

those are todays pics,
pictures 1 to 3 are my big bud, the leaves the bigger ones look like their wilting a bit, checked temp and its not high near leaves, also i watered the plant but not sure if i had watered it enough 2 days ago so today i watered it so i had water dripping out the bottom of the pot so hopefully it will pick up, its still looking healthy and better than it did yesterday so im hopinh its just a water problem.

pictures 4 and 5 are nothern lights cross big bud femenised

pictures 6 7 and 8 are of the special kush

picture 9 is the lighting set up im using at the moment, more lights will be added as i get them

all plants look healthy apart from the big bud, it looked like it was wilting yesterday so raised the lights and watered, looks better today but still not really happy with it, possibly due to not watering it enough, so gave them all a big drink today so im hoping while im away for 2 days it will pick up and be nice when i get back.

ill be online but away from home so wont be adding any pics for 2 days, hopefully their will be a big change in the 2 days, ill probably notice it more than looking at it every day

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

hi all, ive just been having a good read about the lighting schedules ie, 24-0 or 18-6, now it goes into depth about the pros and cons of the lighting schedule, but what it all came down to was this, plants that are grown under 24-0 tend to produce more horizontal growth where plants under 18-6 produce more vertical growth, now the argument was that the plants stretch more due to the lights being off and this causes the plants to grow tall, where as 24-0 prevents this so called stretch period and promotes more horizontal growth and keeps the plant lower to the pot,
so if thats the case, would a mixture of both mean you could say start with 24-0 for few weeks then change to 18-6 for next few weeks before turning to veg, surely this should then make the plant bushy during first few weeks but then it will grow more under 18-6 and produce bigger buds, does anyone see this as been a good idea,

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

switching your plants to a 24/7 light cycles shouldn't shock the plants too much. I'm using 24/7 right now and just switched from the 18/6 cycle and my plants didn't miss a beat. You shouldn't see any decrease in growth during the switch. You might see an increase in in lateral growth and apical dominance fading. This is because Auxin (a plant growth hormone) is produced in the dark portions of your plant. Auxin inhibits branch growth and promotes apical dominance while reducing apical dominance in root systems. In conjunction with other hormones like cytokines they really dominate and direct how your plant will grow. Auxins/cytokines are responsible for why LST and other forms of training work.

Here is a little more detailed bit about Auxins and Cytokines:

You can think of Auxins and Cytokines as being similar to our sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous response. Auxins encourage apical dominance in the shoot portion of the plants and inhibits it in root growth. Cytokines have the exact opposite effect. These two hormones are directly responsible for growth patterns in all plants, and it is through their manipulation that we can control plant growth.

Auxins:

Auxins are usually produced in apical portions of the plants and are then transported via the xylem to different portions of the plant binding with specific receptor sites (for those that simply need to know; Auxin hormones work by targeting members of the Aux/IAA transcription repressor proteins. These repressor proteins degrade and Aux/IAAs derepressed allowing for Auxin responses to occur). Auxin's effects are seen in both cell growth and cell division. Auxin causes cells to release Hydrogen Ions thereby lowering the surrounding pH. The lowered pH causes the cell walls to weaken. With this weakening of the cell wall the plant's cells are affected by turgidity more so than normal and expand much faster (--> Acid growth hypothesis).
Production of Auxin occurs in the darker portions of plants and even on shady sides (that's why you get plants bending towards the light......not quite sure about the molecular explanation of this, guess I should have paid a little more attention in class). In root structures this causes growth in all shoots (once again I'm not too sure about the molecular biology of this, but it is what the hormone does).

Cytokines:
Another family of growth hormones in plants. These hormones tend to promote auxiliary shoot growth and inhibit Auxin expression. These hormones tend to promote apical dominance in roots and inhibit apical dominance in the shoot portion of the plant. Cytokines are produced by from recycled tRNA. It is said to play a pleitropic role in vascular plants, meaning it has multiple, phenotypical effects on the plant itself, making them a hugely important family of hormones. Cytokines are produced constantly and production is only inhibited by Auxin.

So what does all that mean??????
Well, to me (keeping in mind that this is all just book knowledge and not applied knowledge; anyone who has some applied knowledge and experience in this manipulation should know a whole lot more and I would love to hear from them and I would take their word over mine probably. Nothing beats applied knowledge) it means that during your light cycles you will see greater nodal growth and less apical growth. Plants with significant dark cycles should produce much taller plants and even cause some stretching while keeping nodal growth to a much more minimal level. On the other hand, the plant should have much wider/spread out root system. The opposite should be true for plants growing with little to no dark cycle. Hermies shouldn't really occur since sex hormones haven't been secreted yet (unless you have some signs of flowering during vegg, I know it happens). Hence my switching from 18/6 to 24/7. I feel that I got the height I desired and hopefully achieved a strong root system which should cover a large surface area. I want to now reduce vertical growth and encourage nodal growth so I switched them over to 24/7. The first day I didn't see any noticeable difference (probably due to hormone build up), but the second day saw a significant reduction in vertical growth. I went from at least 3/4 of an inch to 1/4 to 1/2 in vertical growth. My nodal growth however, has increased dramatically. I'll have new pictures of the girls in a day or two for my grow log and you should be able to see the difference.

Now this was a very limited and somewhat half assed explanation of how hormone levels effect growth patterns (didn't feel like doing a whole bunch of research and fact checking, so this is all off the top of my head), but it should give you some idea on what to expect from your plants.

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

thats some info i came across so dont think its me been clever i just copy n paste it so every1 can read it

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

here is the actual specific info it relates to, how are your views on this and does it sound like it could be right. to me if thats sounds like its right then by me usin 20-4 that should meet somewhere in the middle shouldnt it and still give me height and width, i hope, lol

well i wont see my plants till the day after tomorrow so im hoping the watering i gave them will last till then, ive bought some bigger pots to plant them in when i get back, is their any reason why i should keep them in small pots till they get bigger or is it ok to transfer them this early, the nutes i bought sed add 15 drops to a litre of water so instead i only added 4 drops to 2 litres of water and then gave the plants a drink, i kept it as weak as possible to prevent nute build up in the compost, are their any good home made nutes i can make as i dont have a wide choice in my country

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

ive just had a thought, what about if a day didnt have to be 24hours, i wonder if say 24-4 or even 36-8, would it work, its giving the plant load of light hours and less dark but its still giving the plant some dark every 36 hour,

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

here is some results i actually managed to find

We did a lot of experiments with light times a few years back using known sat and sat dom clone lines.

With Vegging ie under hid lights.

20/4 produced the most sturdy growth and the most bulk. Best final yield, taken as 100%.
22/2 Less of both. yield 88%
18/6 Studier than 22/2 but slightly less bulk. yield 87%
24/0 Much lighter in all aspects than 18/6. Yield 79%
16/8 The weediest plants. yield 67%

 

[Aaron Quix]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

One thing I can tell you, is that environment is of FAR greater improtance than the timing of your veg cycle. Your temperature, Relative Humidity, lighting type and intensity, soil, nutrients and air flow factors will play a much greater roll in the production of your plants. I'm impressed at the amount of research and reading you're doing, and give you much respect for that. I just think for your sake, you may want to focus more on the basics of keeping healthy plants, than the manipulation of lighting cycles; 24/0 will work GREAT for you for now. Get the other things dialed in first, then play with things like 18/6, 11/13(for flower) etc...

I noticed the pots you have are a little small, but will be fine until you come cack in a couple days. You will want to transplant them then...

You're doing a great job, keep it up!

Oh, and sorry I can't be of more help with the nutrients. Making your own can be a funny fickled thing, I'd stick to store bought if you can. Possibly look into ordering some online that are specifically made for our needs.

Hope you are well, see you around

 

[Aaron Quix]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

Oh, and GLR is supposed to be good too, never tried it myself, but one day I will. Buuuut, for now, stick with KISS....

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

thanks, problem is the nutes where i am are not designed for this plant specifically so id need to find out what type of nute i need for veg and for flower, ie what type of stuff it should have it and the amounts of each, n p k i think from what ive read is the type of nutes i need to focus on, not to well informed about nutes yet, i only ever used miracle grow with jock flash years ago and it seemed to work but ive heard its not the best and can harm the plant, looks like google will help me with that as well,

as for pot size ive got 3 big pots ready to transplant into so the plants will all be at same height ish meaning i wont have to build stuff up below the pot to bring on plant closer to the light, so ill get that done when i get back, it will make it a bit easier when raising and lowering the lights as well as i wont b adjusting old video and cd cases to build the floor up to raise the plants,

i think my humidity is about right running at between 50 and 55, my temp is also right i think running between 23 and 28c as its colder where i am so dont think temps will get to high at the moment, ive wired up 2 12v computer fans just to circ the air and cause the plants to move slightly so this should make the stem stronger, i will be using a bigger fan when the plants are slightly bigger, the only thing i have no control over is the co2 levels but the room their in is slightly open when the lights are on so as to let fresh air in and door closed at night to prevent any lights, i need to read about co2 levels and how best to control that.

my problem is im trying to do the best i can using cfl's so just trying to figure out whats going to produce the best results, im running at 20-4 at the moment and think im going to keep to that until it goes to flower and once i have got a few cuttings ill set up 2 or 3 seperate grom rooms and try the lighting schedule to see whats best, to me it sounds like the roots have a lot to do with the overall yield but im only going to find if i get some trials up and running, thanks for reply

 

[Aaron Quix]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

thanks, problem is the nutes where i am are not designed for this plant specifically so id need to find out what type of nute i need for veg and for flower, ie what type of stuff it should have it and the amounts of each, n p k i think from what ive read is the type of nutes i need to focus on, not to well informed about nutes yet, i only ever used miracle grow with jock flash years ago and it seemed to work but ive heard its not the best and can harm the plant, looks like google will help me with that as well,

as for pot size ive got 3 big pots ready to transplant into so the plants will all be at same height ish meaning i wont have to build stuff up below the pot to bring on plant closer to the light, so ill get that done when i get back, it will make it a bit easier when raising and lowering the lights as well as i wont b adjusting old video and cd cases to build the floor up to raise the plants,

i think my humidity is about right running at between 50 and 55, my temp is also right i think running between 23 and 28c as its colder where i am so dont think temps will get to high at the moment, ive wired up 2 12v computer fans just to circ the air and cause the plants to move slightly so this should make the stem stronger, i will be using a bigger fan when the plants are slightly bigger, the only thing i have no control over is the co2 levels but the room their in is slightly open when the lights are on so as to let fresh air in and door closed at night to prevent any lights, i need to read about co2 levels and how best to control that.

my problem is im trying to do the best i can using cfl's so just trying to figure out whats going to produce the best results, im running at 20-4 at the moment and think im going to keep to that until it goes to flower and once i have got a few cuttings ill set up 2 or 3 seperate grom rooms and try the lighting schedule to see whats best, to me it sounds like the roots have a lot to do with the overall yield but im only going to find if i get some trials up and running, thanks for reply

Yep, 20/4 will work just fine too. Just stick to it and don't worry about researching too much about the other regemines for now. Temps and humidity are good, and your 12v fans are perfect. Don't worry about Co2 right now either. Trust me, you wont do as well with this grow as you will with the next, or the one after that. And you certainly won't get as much from this grow as you will on future grows. Thats just the way it works.
Oh, and about the nutes....Those pics I posted here the other day, were grown using MG for tomatoes....Not the best stuff, but better than nothing!! Yes, it can burn the plants if you go too strong, but it will grow them just fine in lower doses. For flowering, it may be a good idea to read up on how to make a lower N, higher P additive.
I use Fox Farms nutes, and the flower NPK is 2-8-4.
Other brands have their own formulas, and they all work. But keep in mind that each company's "Grow" nute, is designed to work with that company's "flower" nute, and so on...BUT, my first grow, I used MG tomatoe for veg, and the Fox Farms "Flower" nute (Tiger Bloom.).
Are you able to order something online?

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

possibly, but the problem is delivery cost due to the country im in as im not sure you can buy those exact products where i am, i drove past a hydroponics shop the other day and its the first ive seen, im going to pop in their find out what products the sell, im hoping they sell those products or something similar, thanks for your info though i need as much as i can get.

my last grow 8 years ago i wasnt really concerned about what i was doing wrong or right, the place i was living even got busted and i managed to get the plants out and they grew outside for a week or so till i could get them back under lights and i didnt really think to hard about it and i got amazing results but that was using a proper light, so im trying to do all i can to make this as good as it can be.

also about the nutes, you say NPK 2-8-4, how would that read on the back of a bottle of nutes, is it % or how would it look if i looked on the back of a bottle, also do these values change for veg cycle and flower cycle, i only used miracle grow from start to finish 8 years ago and it turned out really nice and it was jack flash strain which is one of my favs as i loved the tangy smell and the tangy taste when it was smoked,

 

[Aaron Quix]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

Yes, the N-P-K on Flowering nutes are different than the N-P-K on a vegetative nutrient. My Veg(Grow) nute is 6-6-4....Here are the ones I use...Notice how the N-P-K is listed toward the bottom....Most brands that I have seen are pretty well labeled in a similar fassion...

 

[donpaul.p]

Re: first cfl grow using 30watt cfls

right ok, i know what im looking for now, i didnt know it would be exatly the same on the bottle as that i thought maybe it would break it down into %, im going to my moms local garden center to get sum activated carbon so ill have a good look through their nutes n see what they got for sale, so by the looks of it i need to lots of nutes at least one for veg and one for flower, ill write down the numbers you have listed and see how it compares to what i can get where i am, thanks a lot makes it a bit easier for me,