First Grow Ever! Please Give All The Advice! Aurora Indica, Coco Coir, Indoor, 2018

[BlackThumbofDeath]

I just looked at your plants. their amazing. I'm curious about the pH you prefer. do you ever get any cal mag uptake issues or any deficiencies? In no way would i ever question such beautiful grows, but i am curious since it really goes against everything i've read lol.

Thanks for your input and stopping by! I honestly appreciate it very very much! This kind of took off while I was deep in the 420 forum rabbit hole hahaha.

So that’s great news to hear (that you think my plants look great)! Honestly I think I’m too intense and have a case of helicopter parenting haha. I’m just all up in my plants space all the time and over analyzing every detail. I just spent the last 4 hours reading 420m’s various grow journals and forums and my plants are definitely not doing bad comparatively. I think the tacoing is a non issue. I’m still unsure about the cause of the purple stems, but I’m not concerned any longer.

I will say I’m starting to wonder about my pH and the purple stems. I just read a couple forums with coco grows and the soil pH actually ended up being around 6.7 even though his water was pH’d to like 5.5. He ended up having to flush many many gallons (30 I think he said?? Can’t remember haha) before his ppm and pH went back to normal.

You think they’re looking good though so I think I’m going to leave them for a bit and let them talk to me. I’m on my cell phone or I’d cover all your posts. Thanks again!

 

[farside05]

@BlackThumbofDeath I can relate to over analysis. I am very analytical in nature. Just look at the spreadsheet thats the first link in my signature (if you have Excel) and you'll get the idea of how far I've gone. LoL. I read a ton, and still do. It is a blessing and a curse. It's easy to get paralysis from analysis and I made a lot of incorrect assumptions when I was just getting started. When you finally get it down, you wonder why the hell you made it more difficult than it really is.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

I'm not sure where all the "purple stem" stuff comes from. I've read it places too but damn near every plant I've grown has a purpleish stem, or in some cases striped. I do not worry about stem colors, read the leafs, they will give you a far better indication of what's going on. I prefer to pH to 6.2-6.5 for soil-less mediums like peat and Coco. Tacoing can be heat related but your temps seem fine from the info you've provided. I'm not really seeing tacoing in the pics, perhaps a different angle? From what I'm seeing, things look to be progressing nicely.

@farside05 thanks for stopping by and helping me out! Very grateful!

So you pH your water/feedings to 6.2-6.5? Or you keep your soil in that range? I understand pH and all the concepts of why it effects different nutrients. I think I’m confused about which pH everything actually needs to be at.

So I’ve seen the charts which you’ve discussed with Remy, with the various pH levels and nutrients absorption ranges. So I want my soil to be in those ranges? Or the water the nutrients are in needs to be pH’d to those ranges and they’ll be good? From more readings I’m thinking that the soil is usually alkalinitic and causes a pH increase. So I need to actually use a more acidic solution to have the absorption of these nutrients. Idk I’m overwhelmed at this point haha.

I just looked at your plants. their amazing. I'm curious about the pH you prefer. do you ever get any cal mag uptake issues or any deficiencies? In no way would i ever question such beautiful grows, but i am curious since it really goes against everything i've read lol.

I started out using pH of 5-7 fu(*ing unknown really haha. My pH meter was crap and I didn’t know what I was doing. Ordered a fancy pH meter and started with around 6.2 pH then read a few dozen articles and decided I was too high and started with 5.5-5.85 pH. Then recently I looked around and thought maybe the purple stems were a mg or K+ dificiency. Which those needed a higher pH so I started with 6.1-6.3 pH waterings and that’s where we are today. But apparently my plants are good and I’m being paranoid hahaha. Sooooo I’m happy and grateful and thankful for you making me feel good about my grow! Look forward to you helping me in the future if an actual problem arises.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

@BlackThumbofDeath I can relate to over analysis. I am very analytical in nature. Just look at the spreadsheet thats the first link in my signature (if you have Excel) and you'll get the idea of how far I've gone. LoL. I read a ton, and still do. It is a blessing and a curse. It's easy to get paralysis from analysis and I made a lot of incorrect assumptions when I was just getting started. When you finally get it down, you wonder why the hell you made it more difficult than it really is.

Oh my god man! I am a super nerdy dude. I actually love excel and making spreadsheets and analyzing data hahahaha. So yeah I’m about to be all up in that shiiiiii....stuff! I found some other person on here that had INSANE graphs and charts and data and I wanted to give him kudos but he’s been dormant since Jan 2018 and you can’t comment on his stuff or send DMs. Oh well....anyway, I look forward to reading your posts and nerding out with you in the future!

 

[farside05]

Coco is rather neutral in pH, whereas peat moss mixes are more acidic and this have to be balanced with lime. I'd just focus on what you're putting in. I haven't bothered checking run-off in quite a while. So add your nutes to your water, then pH that mix to 6.2-6.5 and feed to your plants. I also believe in feeding every watering (nutes in water).

 

[farside05]

Oh my god man! I am a super nerdy dude. I actually love excel and making spreadsheets and analyzing data hahahaha. So yeah I’m about to be all up in that shiiiiii....stuff! I found some other person on here that had INSANE graphs and charts and data and I wanted to give him kudos but he’s been dormant since Jan 2018 and you can’t comment on his stuff or send DMs. Oh well....anyway, I look forward to reading your posts and nerding out with you in the future!

You'll probably dig my spreadsheet then cause there's lots of pretty colors. Lol. I think you have to have 50 posts to be able to PM, or vote in the monthly contests. If you get into my spreadsheet and want to discuss calculations, meanings, or usage, hit me up. I work midnights so I'm usually around from 11 PM to 7 AM EST.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

@farside05 hey brother being lazy still haha but needed a quick question and I can’t fogure out how to direct message.

1st) I’m seeing mag deficiency (yellowing between veins of leaves and some spots. I’ll post pics Tomorrow) I’ve been using tap water and Cali-Magic so I feel like I have sufficient mag. Guessing my coco is for some reason too low. Which doesn’t make sense. I’ll screen shot my watering notes so I don’t have to transcribe them. Anyway I think I’m going to flush with pH 6.5 water with zero nutrients (my tap water is 140 ppm) then see if that helps? Or think I should add some Cali-magic and other nutes with the flush?

Thought behind this is that mag pH should be higher and since I’ve been giving plenty of Cali-magic that it’s a pH problem.

2) my plants are insanely bushy haha. Not a bad problem to have I think. That being said they’ve really just blown up. So I always put off reading about trimming and training thinking I had time. Now it seems I’m really in danger haha. I’m scared to cut branches and leaves because I have tons of bud sites right now. I’m leaning towards scrog or lst. I know you can’t make an opinion without a picture and some info but what is your normal operation? I have 3 plants so I was thinking of leaving one alone. Then playing with the other two.

Ok thanks for your help man! It’s time the student becomes the teacher hahaha! I did many years in the military and I always loved watching soldiers teach a class for the first time. They think they’re not ready and then when forced to perform they always do amazing and makes them more confident in their own performance. Not calling you a rookie, just saying be my Mr.Miyagi. Hahaha ok I’m done brother. I’ll send some pics to show these bushy bitches

 

[farside05]

@BlackThumbofDeath

I don't think you get Private Message permissions until you have 50 posts, so that is most likely your answer to that question.

I haven't used your nute line before but lets examine. Grow has an N-P-K of 2-1-6, Micro 5-0-1, Bloom 0-5-4, and CalMagic 1-0-0. Your feeding on 12/17 was 2.5ml each of the trio, and 5ml of CalMagic.

Last NPK.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

Your blended N-P-K was 2-1-2, which I am cool with, but is it enough?

LastNLoad.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

Your total nitrogen load was 59. My experience is that plants do their best between 90-125 parts nitrogen. Your 59 is well below that. I say you are starving them. Also, since your nutes are not a complete 1 part fertilizer, certain elements are only in certain bottles. If you omit any of the parts, you are failing to give your plants any of the elements from the bottle(s) you left out. So on 12/10, when you only fed CalMagic and Bloom, you left out all the elements that are in the Micro and Gro bottles which could lead to all sorts of deficiencies.

My proposal... Use 5ml of Gro,Micro, Bloom, and CalMagic

NewNPK.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

The new N-P-K is 2-2-3. A fairly common ratio. Nothing too far out of balance here.

NewNLoad.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

New Nitrogen load is 106. About in the middle of the 90-125 N range. I'd feed this for the remainder of the grow unless you see yellowing from lack of N (plants are hungier), or if you see a little tip burn (plants are nitrogen sensitive and want a little less). Add 5ml of each product to a gallon of water then pH to 6.2ish. I wouldn't bother flushing. Just take em to the tub and feed them the new mixture until there is about a 25% runoff from each pot.

If I'm going to top a plant, I normally do it around the 4th node. If I'm not topping and doing LST. I'm probably starting that about the same time (4th node or around 21 days). I tend to leave may of the leafs on until after the plant is done stretching and buds have begun to form. Until that time I want the leafs as a source of mobile nutrients that the plant can draw from if needed. After that, then I'll defoliate and bowl train (LST) to spead the plant open and allow the light to get to those lower bud sites.

 

[Remystemple]

@farside05 hey brother being lazy still haha but needed a quick question and I can’t fogure out how to direct message.

1st) I’m seeing mag deficiency (yellowing between veins of leaves and some spots. I’ll post pics Tomorrow) I’ve been using tap water and Cali-Magic so I feel like I have sufficient mag. Guessing my coco is for some reason too low. Which doesn’t make sense. I’ll screen shot my watering notes so I don’t have to transcribe them. Anyway I think I’m going to flush with pH 6.5 water with zero nutrients (my tap water is 140 ppm) then see if that helps? Or think I should add some Cali-magic and other nutes with the flush?

Thought behind this is that mag pH should be higher and since I’ve been giving plenty of Cali-magic that it’s a pH problem.

2) my plants are insanely bushy haha. Not a bad problem to have I think. That being said they’ve really just blown up. So I always put off reading about trimming and training thinking I had time. Now it seems I’m really in danger haha. I’m scared to cut branches and leaves because I have tons of bud sites right now. I’m leaning towards scrog or lst. I know you can’t make an opinion without a picture and some info but what is your normal operation? I have 3 plants so I was thinking of leaving one alone. Then playing with the other two.

Ok thanks for your help man! It’s time the student becomes the teacher hahaha! I did many years in the military and I always loved watching soldiers teach a class for the first time. They think they’re not ready and then when forced to perform they always do amazing and makes them more confident in their own performance. Not calling you a rookie, just saying be my Mr.Miyagi. Hahaha ok I’m done brother. I’ll send some pics to show these bushy bitches

pH 6.5 is WAY too high for coco. start at 5.5 let it work it's way up to 6.5. then 24 hours later water with pH 5.5 again. this is how you let the plant get all the nutrients. look at the chart here.. Start at 6.5 and you won't get any cal into the plant no matter how much calmag you add.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

@BlackThumbofDeath

I don't think you get Private Message permissions until you have 50 posts, so that is most likely your answer to that question.

I haven't used your nute line before but lets examine. Grow has an N-P-K of 2-1-6, Micro 5-0-1, Bloom 0-5-4, and CalMagic 1-0-0. Your feeding on 12/17 was 2.5ml each of the trio, and 5ml of CalMagic.

Last NPK.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

Your blended N-P-K was 2-1-2, which I am cool with, but is it enough?

LastNLoad.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

Your total nitrogen load was 59. My experience is that plants do their best between 90-125 parts nitrogen. Your 59 is well below that. I say you are starving them. Also, since your nutes are not a complete 1 part fertilizer, certain elements are only in certain bottles. If you omit any of the parts, you are failing to give your plants any of the elements from the bottle(s) you left out. So on 12/10, when you only fed CalMagic and Bloom, you left out all the elements that are in the Micro and Gro bottles which could lead to all sorts of deficiencies.

My proposal... Use 5ml of Gro,Micro, Bloom, and CalMagic

NewNPK.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

The new N-P-K is 2-2-3. A fairly common ratio. Nothing too far out of balance here.

NewNLoad.jpg

• farside05
• Dec 20, 2018

New Nitrogen load is 106. About in the middle of the 90-125 N range. I'd feed this for the remainder of the grow unless you see yellowing from lack of N (plants are hungier), or if you see a little tip burn (plants are nitrogen sensitive and want a little less). Add 5ml of each product to a gallon of water then pH to 6.2ish. I wouldn't bother flushing. Just take em to the tub and feed them the new mixture until there is about a 25% runoff from each pot.

If I'm going to top a plant, I normally do it around the 4th node. If I'm not topping and doing LST. I'm probably starting that about the same time (4th node or around 21 days). I tend to leave may of the leafs on until after the plant is done stretching and buds have begun to form. Until that time I want the leafs as a source of mobile nutrients that the plant can draw from if needed. After that, then I'll defoliate and bowl train (LST) to spead the plant open and allow the light to get to those lower bud sites.

I just wrote out a reply and it deleted haha stupid cell phone. Anyway so you think my yellowing could be a N deficiency? After reading your post I think I might have been under watering and under feeding. I haven’t been watering the pots until I get any run off. I moved them to the 5 gallon cloth pots and for some reason stopped watering until I got runoff.

So I’m just confused why I’d get mag deficiency symptoms if I’m giving tons of mag compared to other nutes. Oh well! I’m going to follow your advice though because damn you present a nice clear conscice case haha. The ladies are getting their beauty sleep or I’d take those pics I promised.

I topped them all at the 4th node about a week or two ago and all have responded well. I’ve git two main stems on all 3 plants and all 6 new mains already have fan leaves. I’m going to just do the LST with some string for now. Might make a screen if I get time.

As always you’ve come in clutch! I feel like I should pay a monthly fee for this level of customer service hahaha!

And those damn excel spreadsheets! never had a man crush but this might be my first hahaha.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

pH 6.5 is WAY too high for coco. start at 5.5 let it work it's way up to 6.5. then 24 hours later water with pH 5.5 again. this is how you let the plant get all the nutrients. look at the chart here.. Start at 6.5 and you won't get any cal into the plant no matter how much calmag you add.

Hey! Thanks for the help I appreciate it. My reasoning for the 6.5 was because the only reason I could think of for a mag deficiency was a pH to low in my soil. So I was going to water on the high end to try and get the soil pH up. Although I don’t actually know my soil pH because I don’t have distilled water to do a slurry test and I haven’t tested runoff.

I am confused what you mean by letting it go up to 6.5 then watering again. Do you mean testing my soil again? Sorry, I’m newer and something probably obvious isn’t obvious to me haha. Because I think my pH is too low so I thought I’d want to water at the high end in order to bring it up? Also like I said before this is all a theory of mine. I need to get some distilled water and do a slurry test to know(this is the only way I’ve read to test soil pH. Open to new ways of you know one. Seems like a pain.) thanks for your help brother !

 

[Remystemple]

Hey! Thanks for the help I appreciate it. My reasoning for the 6.5 was because the only reason I could think of for a mag deficiency was a pH to low in my soil. So I was going to water on the high end to try and get the soil pH up. Although I don’t actually know my soil pH because I don’t have distilled water to do a slurry test and I haven’t tested runoff.

I am confused what you mean by letting it go up to 6.5 then watering again. Do you mean testing my soil again? Sorry, I’m newer and something probably obvious isn’t obvious to me haha. Because I think my pH is too low so I thought I’d want to water at the high end in order to bring it up? Also like I said before this is all a theory of mine. I need to get some distilled water and do a slurry test to know(this is the only way I’ve read to test soil pH. Open to new ways of you know one. Seems like a pain.) thanks for your help brother !

Yeah the pH rises after you feed. for me i'll feed at 5.5 and the run off will be 6.2 - 6.5.
even if you pH water down to 5.5 and let it sit it's gonna rise back up to where it was eventually.

 

[farside05]

pH 6.5 is WAY too high for coco. start at 5.5 let it work it's way up to 6.5. then 24 hours later water with pH 5.5 again. this is how you let the plant get all the nutrients. look at the chart here.. Start at 6.5 and you won't get any cal into the plant no matter how much calmag you add.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. You want to point to the get chart on the left. There's a shit ton of these charts out there and the one on the left is definitely an outlier. Below is a link to a Coco article that has good info and a completely different chart. It shows that Ca and Mg intake start at above 6.

Coco article

Royal Queen seeds also gas a good article and they say pH to 6.

Royal Queen article.

There's plenty of others running 6.2 in Coco and killing it. (Pennywise, Eastcoastgoast, etc).

 

[Remystemple]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. You want to point to the get chart on the left. There's a shit ton of these charts out there and the one on the left is definitely an outlier. Below is a link to a Coco article that has good info and a completely different chart. It shows that Ca and Mg intake start at above 6.

Coco article

Royal Queen seeds also gas a good article and they say pH to 6.

Royal Queen article.

There's plenty of others running 6.2 in Coco and killing it. (Pennywise, Eastcoastgoast, etc).

So are we treating it like hydro or soil ffs? i'm starting to think the best way to learn is without "help" and just figure it out on my own. I came to 420 because google searches lead to contradiction after contradiction. seems to be what i'm running into here now constantly.

 

[farside05]

@Remystemple There's the $99 dollar question. There's been plenty of debate on that topic, and here it is again...lol. The link above for the Grow Weed Easy article says hydro/soil-less mediums are the same (but their chart looks totally different than the one you posted). The nute company I use would lump it in the soil category. It's been a contention of mine that each nute company has a different idea and it's based on how they've formulated their nutes. There are 2 basic forms of Nitrogen used in fertilizers (ok, really 3 but most decent fertilizers stay away from urea, but really it acts like one of the other 2 anyhow). There's Amonical Nitrogen and Nitrate Nitrogen. One, when the plant uses it, causes pH to drop. The other when used causes pH to rise. Some companies blend the two to offset each other. So if you started on the low end, your fertilizer uses a Nitrogen source that causes pH to drop over time, you're screwed. Start high and your fertilizer causes pH to rise, screwed again. Thats an incredibly simplistic synopsis by me (not a horticultural PHD like the dude that wrote the super complex article I'm drawing that info from).

 

[farside05]

I just wrote out a reply and it deleted haha stupid cell phone. Anyway so you think my yellowing could be a N deficiency? After reading your post I think I might have been under watering and under feeding. I haven’t been watering the pots until I get any run off. I moved them to the 5 gallon cloth pots and for some reason stopped watering until I got runoff.

So I’m just confused why I’d get mag deficiency symptoms if I’m giving tons of mag compared to other nutes. Oh well! I’m going to follow your advice though because damn you present a nice clear conscice case haha. The ladies are getting their beauty sleep or I’d take those pics I promised.

I topped them all at the 4th node about a week or two ago and all have responded well. I’ve git two main stems on all 3 plants and all 6 new mains already have fan leaves. I’m going to just do the LST with some string for now. Might make a screen if I get time.

As always you’ve come in clutch! I feel like I should pay a monthly fee for this level of customer service hahaha!

And those damn excel spreadsheets! never had a man crush but this might be my first hahaha.

You won't really need to water to the point of runoff each time. I suggested a heavy feeding this time as kind of a mini flush/charging your coco with some nutes since you've been feeding on a lower level. In a 5 gallon pot you're probably looking at a gallon to a gallon and a half or so per plant to get decent runoff. Then after that you'll probably be feeding maybe half gallon a day each. Of course those are rough estimates that can fluctuate a lot with temps, humidity, plant size, where the plant is in its life cycle, and airflow in your tent.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

So are we treating it like hydro or soil ffs? i'm starting to think the best way to learn is without "help" and just figure it out on my own. I came to 420 because google searches lead to contradiction after contradiction. seems to be what i'm running into here now constantly.

I can understand how it’s frustrating to get contradicting information. You have to understand where you’re getting the information from to be able to determine its credibility against another argument. If all of your information comes from, let’s say a forum like this one, where its just people saying you should do X,Y, or Z simply because they’ve done it and you should trust them. Then obviously that wouldn’t hold much ground against maybe a research paper or a statement from a source who lists credentials and publishes in a scientific journal. So you just have to be able to decide what you believe is accurate or good advice.

That being said @farside05 was respectful and gave some sources (granted not published papers in journals) in order to present a logical argument. I don’t think your response is the kind I would like to see on my journal any further. I’m always open to a logical and respectful debate. I don’t believe your response was much more developed than a 6 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

 

[BlackThumbofDeath]

Ok I was babying these plants with the nutrients and the last feeding I was frustrated and did something I thought I would regret and slammed it with nutrients (>1000ppm) and used 2 gallons (only been using maybe a half gallon for all three). I thought it was going to be bad. NOPE haha them girls were hungry and thirsty as hell cause they are bushy and green. Very short it seems. But they look pretty!

I’m about 5 weeks since germination.

You can see that there’s no more purple stems on the new growth too.

@farside05 i think you were definitely right on my underfeeding and watering! Hahaha thanks man!

 

[farside05]

Ok I was babying these plants with the nutrients and the last feeding I was frustrated and did something I thought I would regret and slammed it with nutrients (>1000ppm) and used 2 gallons (only been using maybe a half gallon for all three). I thought it was going to be bad. NOPE haha them girls were hungry and thirsty as hell cause they are bushy and green. Very short it seems. But they look pretty!

I’m about 5 weeks since germination.

You can see that there’s no more purple stems on the new growth too.

@farside05 i think you were definitely right on my underfeeding and watering! Hahaha thanks man!

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, on my first grow. Not nescessarily the under watering but under feeding. Had numerous "deficiency" issues and made all the wrong assumptions on how to correct it. 5 plants and yielded under 5 oz total. Took a couple grows before I got it down. Now it all seems so simple I wonder why I made it more difficult than it was. Things are looking good. How long are you thinking of vegging before you flip them to bloom? Your plants are in the zone where they are ready to explode. They'll put on maybe an inch a day and a new set of leafs every couple. Then when you flip they'll stretch and double or tripple in height. Exciting times.

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

Hope all is well in your world.

Is this grow still alive?

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Sending you lots of love and positive energy.