First Indoor Grow

[seraphoguz]

I have a fireplace in an empty room that is suitable for a stealth grow,I mean I don't have to think of ducting for exhaust fan and no odor problems I hope.Max. growbox size can be 60/60/100 cm (23,6''/23,6''/39,3'')
I saw lots of people growing in PC boxes.I've tried outside before and kept the plants around 80 cm (31,4'') height.
I know that topping,fimming or lst is mainly for indoor growing.Hope to keep the plants a bit shorter.
Or forget the box and try to use the total fireplace structure after I cover the walls and the base with reflective material.The measurements of the fireplace are something like that,100 cm (39,3'') width,65 cm (25,5'') depth,and the height is 130 cm (51,1'') but begin to reduce the width from both sides after 80 cm (31,4'')

My set up will be simple;
Totaly 500W of mixed spectrum CFL lights (with 26W and 45W bulbs/6500K and 2700K for veg,2700K,6500K and 4100K for bloom)
An exhaust (maybe one or two PC fans)
An intake (again with a PC fan or maybe a passive intake hole)
Two small fans inside,not diretly to te plants (At the top and at the bottom)
A timer for the lights
Reflectors or a DIY hood for the bulbs
Flat white for inner walls

if I won't build a box do I still need the exhaust fans or the chimney of the fireplace will be enough ?
Here are some pictures below

 

[Garage Grower]

That's a cool idea. just need to box in the front (or just put a door on it) and line it with Mylar or some other reflective material. The only thing that I can think of that might cause a headache (depending on how handy-DIY you are) would be rigging your lighting.

I'm very interested in seeing how this progresses

 

[seraphoguz]

That's a cool idea. just need to box in the front (or just put a door on it) and line it with Mylar or some other reflective material. The only thing that I can think of that might cause a headache (depending on how handy-DIY you are) would be rigging your lighting.

I'm very interested in seeing how this progresses

Thanks... Much appreciated

But I've give up the idea using the whole fireplace in order not to build a door to the front.As you mentioned before realised that I am not handy-DIY to make a proper sealed door.Can be something else but not that type of a door.That curved shape discourages me so much
I found it easy to put a small box into the fireplace and without ducting,simply put my exhaust fan to the top of the box and let the air go out from the chimney by itself and use the room's fresh air with another fan at the bottom of the box.
From the readings I've done before in here or in other pages,they're saying that it's not correct to re-use the same air while exhausting from the top and use it again from the intakes.I'm saying that because if I go out from the fire place I can build a bigger grow box in that empty room but I don't want to struggle ducting my exhaust fan even to the fireplace.
I've buyed some CFL bulbs
2x65W(6500K-3900Lm-60 Lm/W)
4x45W(6500K-2790Lm-62 Lm/W)
2x26W(2700K-1690Lm-65 Lm/W)
Totally 362W and 22340 Lm
Electricity is a bit expensive here at the country according to the city (I've noticed that after I moved here) and I want to keep my bills payable
Because of that I want to keep my growing area simple and small and handle the grow with that lights maybe add a few more after flowering.
Or let me ask what's the max. grow box size can you advice with these lights ?

 

[Garage Grower]

doesn't have to be anything fancy... just a sheet of thin plywood or builder foam lined with Mylar to cover the fireplace opening... cut a single intake hole in that sheet to install an intake fan, then let the exhaust flow naturally up the chimney (just make sure the flue is open). line the fireplace with something reflective, and you'll be set to grow. you'd just have to rig up some sort of stand or other means to suspend your lights. The lights you listed should be good for the size area of your fireplace. as the plants grow if you find dark/shadowed spots on the foliage, you can always add a couple more lights (or swap the lower wattage for higher)

doing it that way would be the least amount of work while still keeping it somewhat out of sight.... and no ducting to run - it's already there

 

[seraphoguz]

Thanks for the support,stick in sealing the light at the opening.
Maybe you're right I'm doing things harder by thinking so much,I've already have a 0,2'' (0,5 cm.) plywood that's quite bigger then the opening and two 6'' PC fans.
By the way don't afraid to build something for the lights,rather easy then to make a proper door.Screw something inside both sides at the top and use some chains to adjust the DIY hood.And some clamp reflectors around the plant.
A little light and wind coming from the chimney but no rain for sure.
Thanks to make my mind clear again

 

[nhtoker]

That would make a great stealth grow space. It looks like the fireplace has never been used. This will be interesting.

 

[seraphoguz]

Hello again everybody,I’ve given a break for some personal issues but I’m back again.
As a summary;I’ve covered the walls of the fireplace with reflective materials and put a plywood to the entrance with 2 PC fans at the bottom for intakes.Nothing for exhaust,just using the original chimney,new air is coming down in some strong windy days.There is also a little weak fan for air circulation,in fact it’s an insect trap,I’ll buy a little but stronger desk type fan later.
I was planning to order feminised seeds for this grow but then decided to try again my regular bag seeds that I’ve tried outdoor this summer.Probably a sativa dominant hybrid.Lots of people saying that sativas are not a good choice for indoors but I’ll try.
Germinated 9 seeds directly in the soil at solo cups 7 days ago,first I put 3 and the other day I added 6 more seeds for to germinate.But I’m planning to go on growing just with the healtiest 4 plants after a week.Two of them sprouted 3 days ago,the other two one day later and finally today the last two ones.I guess I won’t wait for the other 3 seeds to sprout as I said I’ll just grow 4 plants.Let me give you the dimensions again;100 cm(39,3 in.) width,65 cm.(25,5 in.) depth and 130 cm (51,1 in.) height.
I made a DIY hood with two 65W bulbs inside and now 6 seedlings are under them 24/0 light cycle and 4 inches far away.I borrowed 4 desk type reflectors from a friend’s office and will use 45W bulbs in them but will wait at least for a week to put on that 45W bulbs.Totaly will be 310W actual.They are babies and I think two 65W will be enough for the first week.
I have a digital temp. and hum. meter.Temp. is fine with only two bulbs,around 78 F(26 C),but I’ve made a try with all the bulbs on and it went up to 89F(32 C).Humidity is bad,changing around 35 to 40 and while all the bulbs on down to 25.Next week it will begin to get colder and I hope that will be better.
I want to share some photos of my ghetto with you and hoping some feedback about what I’m doing.

 

[Garage Grower]

Fantastic job!

at some point between now and when you flip to 12/12 lighting, you'll need to figure some way to light-seal the edges of the plywood and the fan openings. The edges can be as simple as a heavy cloth (sort of like drapes) to cover the gap between the plywood and the brick... for the fan openings, you can build a makeshift light trap out of cardboard and duct tape. basically you'll want to build a sort of duct for air to come in that takes a few 90 degree (or sharper) bends to block the light from entering the fan intake.

Another thing I like is that using the chimney, there's pretty much no need for odor control... once the exhaust comes out, it's above roof level where even a slight breeze should take it away and disperse it pretty well... even if someone DOES catch a whiff of it, there's really no way to tell where it's coming from - unless you're the ONLY house in the area

Best of luck

 

[seraphoguz]

Fantastic job!

at some point between now and when you flip to 12/12 lighting, you'll need to figure some way to light-seal the edges of the plywood and the fan openings. The edges can be as simple as a heavy cloth (sort of like drapes) to cover the gap between the plywood and the brick... for the fan openings, you can build a makeshift light trap out of cardboard and duct tape. basically you'll want to build a sort of duct for air to come in that takes a few 90 degree (or sharper) bends to block the light from entering the fan intake.

Another thing I like is that using the chimney, there's pretty much no need for odor control... once the exhaust comes out, it's above roof level where even a slight breeze should take it away and disperse it pretty well... even if someone DOES catch a whiff of it, there's really no way to tell where it's coming from - unless you're the ONLY house in the area

Best of luck

Thanks... Much appreciated

I'll buy a new piece of plywood for the entrance,that one was what I've found at home.About the light trap you're absolutely right,I'll have to do it before flowering.By the way I'll keep on going 24/7 till to flowering.

 

[seraphoguz]

One week passed and I transplanted them to 2 Gal. pots this morning.45W bulbs are on each plant about 2 inches far and the 65W bulbs in the hood are about 4 or maybe 5 inches far away.The hood is big enough to cover all the bulbs so I didn't need to extend the desk type reflectors.Maybe after the plants get taller I'll do.
My soil is a kind of humus ammended with mycrobacterias.I also added eggshell powder and banana peel powder to my soil (I learned and copied that from someone else on my last outdoor grow) Instead of perlitte I added pumice stone to my soil mix.(Same effects like perlitte but they say it doesn't go upwards after each watering)
I put on all the bulbs three days ago and under the hood it's about 32C(89F) and very low humidity,35 to 40.Using bottled water so PH must be fine but I'll have to get a PH meter,nutes are on the way.I will use an organic soil nutrient on veg.with 3-1-6 NPK ratios,have some worm casting extract and blackstrap molasses too.
They seem growing very slow to me but in my outdoor try it was the same at the beginning.
If I'll add 90W to my total 310W,will that make any difference or can I keep it like that in veg?
Have tried and succeded in topping before but I'll try to FIM this time.This is becoming a really fantastic hobby for me : )

 

[seraphoguz]

My soil is a kind of humus ammended with mycrobacterias.

Mycroelements I mean...

 

[Garage Grower]

Looks good. at this point, if energy savings is an issue, you COULD shut the desk lamps off and just lower the hood another inch or two. Then once the plants start to grow and fill out, you can turn on the desk lamps to help fill in any shaded areas. My only other suggestion would be (if you have room in there for it) to pick up a small cool mist vaporizer (humidifier) to help get the humidity up somewhere to the 50-60% range, at least during the veg period. Then turn it off to let the RH drop in flower... and maybe a small to mid sized fan blowing upward to help get air moving up the chimney. 89 F isn't HORRIBLE... Cannabis will GROW in temps ranging anywhere from 50F to around 100F at least for intermittent periods - though the extreme highs and lows does affect photosynthesis to a point and will slow or stunt growth. Ideally, you'd want no higher than 80-85 and no lower than 60-65. Most try to keep it steady in the 70-75 range.

Good luck

 

[seraphoguz]

Looks good. at this point, if energy savings is an issue, you COULD shut the desk lamps off and just lower the hood another inch or two. Then once the plants start to grow and fill out, you can turn on the desk lamps to help fill in any shaded areas. My only other suggestion would be (if you have room in there for it) to pick up a small cool mist vaporizer (humidifier) to help get the humidity up somewhere to the 50-60% range, at least during the veg period. Then turn it off to let the RH drop in flower... and maybe a small to mid sized fan blowing upward to help get air moving up the chimney. 89 F isn't HORRIBLE... Cannabis will GROW in temps ranging anywhere from 50F to around 100F at least for intermittent periods - though the extreme highs and lows does affect photosynthesis to a point and will slow or stunt growth. Ideally, you'd want no higher than 80-85 and no lower than 60-65. Most try to keep it steady in the 70-75 range.

Good luck

I'll primarily have to buy a PH meter but you're absolutely right about the humidifier for veg. I'm now using a bigger fan for air circulation and that's also helping for heat too.
If I'll turn off the desk lamps that will be great but do you think only 130W will be enough for 4 seedlings and for how long ?
By the way subbed to your thread,you're doing great there
And PH is a mystery for me,my soil is balanced between 6/6,5 but the water I'm using is 7,4.
I know some household items like citric acid with specific ratios lowering the PH one point but after I'll begin to use nutes I don't know what to do.Is that really important to buy a PH meter and calibrating liquids or can I go on doing nothing about it ?

 

[seraphoguz]

Sharing some photos below,as you can see the leaves are yellowish rather than green.
Heat becomes the first issue or is that mostly because of low humudity ? Hope the new big fan will help.It’s running all day long turning to both directions and a little upwards to the bulbs inside the hood.
I lifted up the hood 1 inch and desk reflectors a little bit far.Lots of people saying that they are using that 65Ws even 1 inch close to seedlings.
The ones in the 2 gal. pots are in day 11 and the others in 2 liter pots are on their 9th day.
I am keeping the ones in small pots as spares as if something will happen to others but probably too small for the whole growing process,so I’ll throw them away at some point.

 

[seraphoguz]

I am in doubt over watering the seedlings.Only watered them once after the transplant,4 days later and it was really dry.In fact for seedlings lots of people watering only once a week.Maybe I made a common mistake.
I was also in doubt about the reflective material on the walls and in the hood so I changed all to white.Hope they'll recover soon,whatever,I'm just a beginner.

 

[seraphoguz]

Third week begins yesterday for the ones in bigger pots but I guess they’ll not recover as you can see clearly.I arranged a photo below,four of them in one.
I mostly want to share the ones in smaller pots that I kept as spares.Although they are two or three days younger,they are looking pretty good according to others.They must be 12 days old and transplanted them to 1,7 liter pots from solo cups just four days ago.Until that time they were getting small amount of light and stil I didn’t raise the pots to the big ones’ height.
Probably I will go on with them but first I wish to clear the problem about the others,in order not to make same mistakes.
Hope I won’t bore you if I’ll write a quick summary and my opinions what I’ve done with them till now.
They were sprouted early according to others and looked healty in their regular pot soil and perlitte mix.I was spraying small amounts of water daily while they were in solo cups.And only two 65Ws were over them about 4 inches close.And I have to mention that I was using a smaller fan for air circulation and some signs of yellowing began at these days but that was not so strong.
I preapered a mix for the new 2 gallon pots,like % 60 potting soil(ammended with mycroelements,PH 5,5-6,5), % 40 pumice stone,egg shell and banana peel powdery.I watered each empty pot before transplant with 1,2 liter bottled water (still using that water 7,0 PH )
Everything was happened after all,I transplanted them so early I guess,only five days later and they were not totally dry while I was doing that.And as a result of this I couldn’t hold the soil properly and damaged root structure a little bit.The yellowing and drooping increased every day..I watered them again after four days (they were dry) and a week passed but still didn’t watering,hoping them to recover.
And for the healty ones,I waited ten days for them to transplant and they were totally dry in their solo cups while doing that.Watered only once after transplant,four days later(yesterday),used quarter percent grow nute,and a teaspoon of molasses per liter.In fact I just used a liter for 4 plants,250 ml. each.
So I am not sure if the problem is over watering,heat stress or PH.And I didn’t use any nutes for the ones that have problems.
Thanks for reading

 

[Subnoise]

If you don't think they're over watered, it could be calcium deficiency making them yellow and limp. My clones in my drip system did the same thing looked just like over watered but not really possible in hydro. Then started yellowing ended up being high ph locked out the calcium. Do you check your run off ph? Try some cal-mag or maybe tap water next watering if ph looks good. Dig the fire place set up looks nice.

 

[seraphoguz]

This is how it will go from now on.
Cancelled the grow with the ones that has problems.Now I have only 4 plants that are in 1,7 liter pots with all the lights on 310W in total.Two 65W are 8 inches far but I didn’t measure how far the 45Ws.
I couldn’t realize what happened to others but I’m trying to keep the lights in a secure distance and be carefull about overwatering,didn’t buy a PH meter yet.
They are now at the beginning of week 3,lights are still 24/7.
In week 4 and 5 will switch to 18/6
And in week 6 I’ll switch to 12/12
Planning to top or FIM next week and continue with LST while flowering.
I will upgrade the grow nute from ¼ strenght to ½ on the next feeding.
2 gal. pots will be their final place and recommended to transplant two weeks before flowering as I’ve read.
Is that mentioned when I’ll switch to 12/12 or real flowering ?
And finally how many watts will you suggest for 3x2 dimensions in flowering 400,500 or more ?

 

[seraphoguz]

If you don't think they're over watered, it could be calcium deficiency making them yellow and limp. My clones in my drip system did the same thing looked just like over watered but not really possible in hydro. Then started yellowing ended up being high ph locked out the calcium. Do you check your run off ph? Try some cal-mag or maybe tap water next watering if ph looks good. Dig the fire place set up looks nice.

No I didn't check PH cause I don't have a PH meter yet.Whatever,I cancelled that ones as written above.Over a week I didn't water them but nothing happened,I turn off two 65Ws and still nothing happened.I only didn't check the PH and you maybe correct about it.I have to buy a digital one for these ones as soon as possible.Thanks for stopping by

 

[seraphoguz]

From the beginning I'm talking about the actual watts for sure not the equivalents.
Now in veg. as I mentioned above,using 310 actual watts (two 65W/four 45W) in 6 feet square over 4 plants.And usually the amount of light is getting more in flowering,so according to that I'm asking the amount of watts with CFLs.I never had a plan going on with HIDs but maybe LEDs (probably will continue with 2700K CFLs)
In fact I need two answers,first,is the amount of light that I'm using now in veg. matched with my growing conditions and second,if so how much do I have to upgrade in flowering ?
I know most people using 23Ws but beside that there is a huge amount of growers using bigger watts even bigger then me.
Finally I'm not clear about all this stuff that I've written above,some do like this and the others do like that and newbie growers mostly recomended to find their own way.
Growing indoor is quite a nightmare comparing to outdoor I guess

Simple is the better