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First Post - LED For Grow Tent

purpcaper

New Member
Hello,
Everyone I am new here and am needing some help.
Trying to keep this as simple as possible.

To general agreement I am looking for 1000w for my 5 x 5

Can someone please god clear this up for me.

Do I need a led light advertised as 1000w
Or Do I need one with actual 1000w pull

I have read that the advertised watt is the equivalent: Like a 1000w led = a 1000watt hps and uses only half watts , thus saving the money.

Is that just UNTRUE

Because it makes no sense, if you have to match the actual consumption than 1000w of actual led consumption is no better than 1000w of hps consumption.

Someone please help

Thank you so much
 

1greenthumb

Member
Most led lights list a coverage area...most people recommend getting two lower wattage led for ability of placement choices
 

purpcaper

New Member
Most led lights list a coverage area...most people recommend getting two lower wattage led for ability of placement choices
Thank you for your reply, do you happen to know the standard though , as to whether or no advertised watt is comparable.
How Many LED Watts Are Required Per Square Foot of Grow Space? | LED Grow Lights Depot

This confused the hell out of me
I get all of the charts, ideas, concepts, w.e except the lingering thing is are the watts, real draw, or advertised.

Thanks a lot
 

Agemon

Creme de la Creme Photos of the Year: 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Aug, Sept, Oct & Nov 2017 - Photo of the Month: May 2018, Mar 2019
Advertised id comparable. The other post is suggesting you get two 500 watt LED's. If youre going cheap get a viparspectra. Ive got one and im impressed as are many others ive spoken too.
 

purpcaper

New Member
Ok so advertised is comparable.
Meaning a 1000w led is relatively equal to a 1000w hps despite only pulling 500+-watts
And then the other guy said to use two lights to achieve that and that will be using a better footprint.

I have looked at the viparspectra and kings on amazon.

Which one did you get exactly? Size room? Plants?

Thanks for the reply.
 

DukeO

Well-Known Member
If it was me I would want 1000w pulled from the wall of led.

I run 950w in my 4x4. I also agree about getting two lights for better coverage.

35 to 50w psf is what most of us here use.
 

purpcaper

New Member
Yea, the only thing is and I don't mean to be a pain but really. I still do not have a definitive answer.
It kinda sucks
Out of all the "experts", videos, books etc.
I mean this is science and math
Why can I not get a black and white, 1/0, yes no answer

Is an led's advertised wattage mathematically comparable to any light with x wattage of the same value?
-If not then isnt it total bullshit?
-If not then matching real wattage would thwart money savings correct?
So please have some kind of support - i.e (Of course wattage is comparable, why else would they save money and be so popular)or (fuck no wattage pulled is wattage pulled no magic light will change that)
Anybody?
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
35 to 50w psf is what most of us here use.
^^That^^

...and if you aim toward the 35 watts per ft.² end, better make sure it's a high-quality LED panel. With the usual generic Chinese product, probably better aim... high.

Is an led's advertised wattage mathematically comparable to any light with x wattage of the same value?
In general? Nope. That stuff isn't written by scientists, lofl, it's crapped out by the ad/marketing department.

Look for the actual electrical figure. This might be stated in watts, or you might have to do a little third grade math and multiply the amperage by the voltage.

If not then isnt it total bullshit?
Now you're catching on ;) .

You can pretty much take those "equivalent to n watts of HID" statements with a grain of salt, too. Or an entire truckload of salt. Remember when people first started using CFLs, and they'd buy a 23-watt CFL that had "Equivalent to 100 Watts!!!" on the package, and some of the newbies got all confused? Yeah... Someone ought to invent a disease that only affected ad men (and women), that caused them to... every single time they opened their mouths, a fountain of runny diarrhea came spewing out. Because then you'd know they were talking sh!t, lol.

If not then matching real wattage would thwart money savings correct?
<SHRUGS> Unless you live in rural Alaska, the upper Northwest Territories in Canada, or some other area where they have to haul generator fuel in on trucks (or 65-year old cargo planes), I probably wouldn't base my light choice on how much it's going to cost each month in electricity. And that's advice from a poor man :rolleyes3 . I mean, sure, electricity costs money. But if you go out and price even a halfway decent lid these days, you might be looking at $300 to $400 - and I assume most home growers don't set out to grow halfway decent bud, lol. It's been quite a few years since I sat down and even tried to guesstimate how much I had in an average harvest - but when I did, I came up with something like $27.50/ounce. I figure everything is more expensive now, but not so much more expensive that I'm wondering whether it's cheaper to grow or buy cannabis...

I was just thinking earlier - or maybe that was yesterday, I CRS any more - that, in practical terms, an LED could actually turn out to cost a person a little more electricity for the same wattage, because it restricts the choices for ventilation runs to "vent the entire room instead of just the light(s) most of the time. Again, it's probably not a significant thing (more of a PitA and... well, I hate to use the words "p!ss poor way to move air through one's grow," but...).

5'x5' is a bit much for the average LED panel. Even if the power is there, they tend to be somewhat compact in the illumination pattern. It's a bit unwieldy for a lot of air-cooled HID reflectors, too. You'd need something that was capable of throwing light evenly throughout the space. A rectangular (non-square rectangle, I mean ;) ) reflector is going to throw a rectangular pattern. There are reflectors that throw a square light pattern. Or one could go with a more rectangular pattern, one that is set so that the long side matches one dimension of the tent, and use a (short) light-rail type mover to slowly move the reflector back and forth the entire time the light is on.

If you really want to go with LED lighting, there are several DIY threads about building your own, using COBs. Some of them are pretty potent, so to speak, and it's a scalable thing - both in the ability to control the wattage per COB and in being able to add more to one's setup. This won't be real cheap, BtW. Expect to pay somewhere between the cost of those panels that still use the little LEDs instead of COBs and the higher-quality and -wattage COB panels. Possibly towards the upper end, IDK. Folks who have gone this route sure seem to be happy. You could probably do a search and find some of their grow journals. Speaking of which, looking through our journal forums would be a good way to learn how a lot of panels perform in the real world without actually having to buy a lot of panels....
 
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purpcaper

New Member
I appreciate your response. Truly I do. Unfortunately it still doesnt scratch my itch. I mean that in the most respectful way.

35 - 50w is a very general common amount of light used in common grow. For every light. Its a standard.

Leds draw usually half.
So:
5x5=25x lets say 40 =1000w
Ok so now if what everyone seems to be saying is true. it works out like this.

I technically need 2000w of led
which:
-would cost a lot of $$$
-would draw exactly as much
and completely opposes every documented case of videos, people using leds, and the entire industry making them and succesfully growing with them.

Now the other side is.

1000w.

bam 2 x 600w leds, good foot print.
cost less than the huge light
draws about 650 actual watts.
Produces more lumens at the correct kelvin than the hps counterpart and makes a ton of sense according to what everyone is saying.

That makes sense to me.

Look Im not trying to be difficult
That is often mistaken when a super analytical oriented mind needs concrete. I am not sure if it is the military mindedness that refuses to let it go. Its just.

Everyone knows exact ph leves
lucas methods
hempy buckets
flood drains
scrogs and lst
light sensor levels
humidity
fan math to airate rooms in 2min
co2 math
chemical feeding schedules

After looking at how much we all delve in and learn it makes my CRAZY that it isnt just like.....

HEY IF YOUR GOING TO BE USING LEDS HERE IS THE CHART TO CONVERT FOR THE PROPER CONGRUENCY OF WATTS

ROOM SIZE HPS LED
3X3 400 250
4X4 600 300-350
5X5 1000 600

and I have found this

but I dont know if its true
and that is what Im asking
ahhhhh...
 

purpcaper

New Member
I just want to say again I appreciate everyones responses more than you could know I am just on a search for hard close ended facts so from. here on out in order to make this a bit accurate.

Please

Answer if you have:
-Done an led grow
-Have dealt with these issues
-Understand my dilemma

What did you use?
Did you have the same problem?
What did you try vs what happened?



Thank you for your help in advance.
 

Methods

Well-Known Member
I just want to say again I appreciate everyones responses more than you could know I am just on a search for hard close ended facts so from. here on out in order to make this a bit accurate.

Please

Answer if you have:
-Done an led grow
-Have dealt with these issues
-Understand my dilemma

What did you use?
Did you have the same problem?
What did you try vs what happened?



Thank you for your help in advance.
Im wrapping up my first grow with just one "300" watt led light. Only had a space about 2 by 4. Though I knew it wasnt enough I wanted to see what I could do with just the one. Though for veg it was more than enough I will for sure add a 600w to add more light.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
35 - 50w is a very general common amount of light used in common grow.
That's because the quality of LED grow light panels across the board varies from pretty good to piles of steaming horse dung. They are NOT all the same, so a range is given.

For every light. Its a standard.
It may be your standard. For flowering cannabis with HID lighting, I'd consider 50 watts per square foot to be my useful minimum, and that's with HPS; I'd want more with MH. And, again, that's my minimum. I like sativas and sativa-dominant hybrids, so my maximum wattage is governed more by how much heat I can remove than how much the plants will take, lol. But 62½ to 70 or 75 watts per square foot would not be unreasonable, and I would still not expect indica-style super dense buds. Equatorial sativas like their sun.

With CFLs, generally speaking, I'd want to double that. With tube-type fluorescent bulbs, nearly so.

Leds draw usually half.
Lolwat?

5x5=25x lets say 40 =1000w
Makes sense so far. Hope that's a good quality LED setup, something from Amare Technologies or other top-shelf manufacturer, rather than one of the generic Chinese "bunch of little dot LEDs" panels.

I technically need 2000w of led
Uh, no, you don't. Not technically or otherwise. That'd be 80 watts per ft.². A minute ago you figured up 40 watts per. Now you're arbitrarily doubling what you calculated. I mean... Are you growing one of those 100% sativas from the equator that flower for like 18 or more weeks, lol? If so... Well, at that point you've got other factors besides the power consumption of your light to think about. With more mainstream strains, you won't be trying for 80 watts' per square foot of lighting. Well, not with strong lights. CFLs, OtOH, maybe you would. But I am assuming you're thinking of LEDs.

Look Im not trying to be difficult
It's purely coincidental, then? ;)

Seriously, though, I cannot help but feel that you must be missing something basic. It might be time to do a little reading. There are approximately 32,768 threads on sizing - and building - LED products. And it seems like every time I look, there are 420 new grow journals that feature LED grow lighting. Check out a couple - or a couple dozen. Considering the cost of the products, on average, any time that you spend reading can be thought of as insurance against the possibility of wasting your money. You might even find a few that utilized a grow tent of the same size as yours. Seems like 4'x4' and 3'x3' are more popular, but there are a LOT of grow journals, lol, so...

Good luck with your grow!
 

purpcaper

New Member
It is certainly a shame this keeps happening. I imagine I will just close this. I keep getting messages touted with condescention and talking down like wtf?

First the range I stated is not "my" standard it is something that can be sourced online many places and IS generality.

Secondly "leds draw usually half" responded with an lolwat?.
Yes led's usually do draw about half of what they advertise. i. e 1000w usually 450-550 actual draw. Again many sources. Most ads for leds list actual watts. Hence one of the basis for my question.

Third. I said In the context of: Needing the actual draw watts of leds vs advertised : i. e my situation of needing 1000w then to that account I would need 2000w because actual draw would be close to half. It seems truly someone is not following a long. Its still 40 a ft because of actual draw. Again another integral part of the problem which lies my question. There is not arbitrary doubling, THAT IS MY POINT that is what I am saying and trying to figure out lol.

The fourth taking true politness and just being rude.

Seriouly though I can not help but to feel that you must be missing something basic. "It may be time to do a little reading?" For real? Awesome candor on a forum. I obviously have read a ton, you werent even succesful with my single post. Considering you A. Didnt answer my question. B. All of your quotes and responses to mine were 100 percent out of context and incorrect. C. Stated no actual led grow experience, instances of seeing the same information, or anything remotely constructive. 32,768? Well good since you are so intimate with the collection and think it is relevant and ignorantly assumed I did not search said information, please show me 1 out of that lot that answers the simple question.

What is the conversion rate of advertised led watts to actual consumption draw?

It is amazing how much work one will go to make someone feel bad or get a tiny jab in. I feel so bad for anyone like that.

I am a human reaching out to my peers. This is one of the coolest things thst people do with eachother. Learn grow and help and to think thats what you did with it. Thats the true lol out of all the ones you so kindly put in.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
I'm sorry that you equated plain-speaking and an honest attempt to help with rudeness. I don't do politically "correct" BS, though, so...

I thought "don't pay attention to imaginary numbers" had already been covered. If I'd realized that you completely missed that and based everything on something that didn't actually exist in reality, I'd have tried to explain it... IDK, with smaller words? Something. Because it really is important, lol. That was why - even thinking that you got it already - that I mentioned the BS "equivalent to" that used to get mentioned (and beat to death) where CFLs were concerned. It doesn't matter if one of the LED (et cetera) companies advertise their product as being a "Ten Bazillion Watt Planet-Heater," FFS. I could give you a long, somewhat involved explanation that included things such as the "class" of different individual LEDs and how that doesn't really even theoretically matter these days, but it's far easier - and more useful - to just type "don't pay any attention to made up shit." If you want to print that out and draw a big heart around it so that you can read it without feeling like we're being mean to you, feel free. But I don't see a button to do it on my end, and to be honest with you I probably wouldn't use it anyway because this isn't a therapy group, it's a cannabis awareness forum. Which is not to say that I'm going to start being rude to you or anything - it just means that I'm not going to go to any unreasonable lengths to wrap every word in its own little cloud. That's what cats are for, lol; pet one and it'll purr. Not much for useful conversation, but boy can they make you feel good. Got one somewhere around here, myself. Probably chillin' in the grow room, wishing I'd go get it another mouse...

Secondly "leds draw usually half" responded with an lolwat?.
That's because half-sentences often make less than half-sense (so to speak). And, again, the fact that you need to pay attention to the actual rate of power consumption instead of any made-up marketing trip has been covered. Not just by me.

Yes led's usually do draw about half of what they advertise. i. e 1000w usually 450-550 actual draw. Again many sources. Most ads for leds list actual watts. Hence one of the basis for my question.
<SHRUGS> Sorry, bud, but I'm not responsible for what unsavory LED companies put on their websites or in other advertising media. Nor am I responsible for which companies you choose to look at products from. I've got an Amare Technologies LED panel in the grow room right now. The website clearly stated its power consumption. A good company will do that. A... fair one ought to at least tell you via email reply when you ask.

I said In the context of: Needing the actual draw watts of leds vs advertised : i. e my situation of needing 1000w then to that account I would need 2000w because actual draw would be close to half. It seems truly someone is not following a long. Its still 40 a ft because of actual draw. Again another integral part of the problem which lies my question. There is not arbitrary doubling, THAT IS MY POINT that is what I am saying and trying to figure out lol.
Why on earth would I speak in anything other than REAL numbers, FFS? Am I supposed to mislead you, is that what you mean? Sorry, you'll have to look for that somewhere else...

Seriouly though I can not help but to feel that you must be missing something basic. "It may be time to do a little reading?" For real? Awesome candor on a forum. I obviously have read a ton, you werent even succesful with my single post. Considering you A. Didnt answer my question. B. All of your quotes and responses to mine were 100 percent out of context and incorrect. C. Stated no actual led grow experience, instances of seeing the same information, or anything remotely constructive. 32,768? Well good since you are so intimate with the collection and think it is relevant and ignorantly assumed I did not search said information, please show me 1 out of that lot that answers the simple question.
Now you're just getting pissy. Which doesn't bother me, I know how to use the Ignore User function in my User CP. But it does tend to annoy people who might otherwise be happy to help. I mean, pretty much everyone here, if they've been here for any length of time and they actually post, try to be helpful to others. That is a lot of the reason why we are here. And we, for the most part, do not mind doing a little spoon-feeding once in a while. But chewing the spoonful up, then regurgitating it as if we were feeding a tiny little baby bird, well, it can get tedious upon occasion. Still, we do that, too, from time to time.

But, sometimes... Well, you sort of end up thinking that the person is wanting to be difficult more than they're wanting to learn :rolleyes3 .

What is the conversion rate of advertised led watts to actual consumption draw?
When you ask such a generic question, there isn't one is the only useful answer. If you don't see the actual consumption - either expressed in watts or in actual amperage draw at a given voltage - then either ask the seller WtF it is, or find a better seller! I don't know how to make that more clear. There are no shorter words that would be sufficient. I... don't know what else to type. If I type "some companies that sell cheap Chinese crap advertise their products so that someone who fails to pay attention and/or who has poor reading comprehension skills would think that they're twice as powerful as they actually are," would that do? But, you see, I hate to do that. First, because not all companies do that. Some LIE even worse, with others it might take a medium with a fist-rate crystal ball to figure out how they "calculate" their numbers, and some are actually honest about it. Second, I'd be a little worried (well, not worried, per se, but... aware of the possibility) that you'd read that and accuse me of calling you a f*cking idiot or something because I mentioned that - surprise - advertisers like to fool people into buying their junk. See, I really didn't set out to end up in the position of having to wonder if you're going to look for an insult in everything that I type, but, well, here we are. I have only the above to go on, aside from that I don't know you and cannot, at this point, make the usual favorable assumptions.

It is amazing how much work one will go to make someone feel bad or get a tiny jab in.
What's really amazing is that it's well-past my bedtime, and I only returned to this thread because I thought I might search for a few useful threads, some journals that used the same size tent that you've mentioned, and maybe even find a few examples of products from our sponsors that could be worth consideration for use in such a space. Instead, I had to repeat the same stuff I've already stated and explain that... well, that trying to have a discussion with you does not mean I'm... talking down to you? insulting you? Believe me, if I decide to insult you, you'll know about it. I'd get banned for sure. I did insult a guy here once. I think I called him a c*nt. I apologized afterwards. I felt bad. And not just because it would have been much more correct to have typed that he was acting like a c*nt, but because I lost my cool and shouldn't have. It has been a while, maybe six years, but I can still remember getting upset. I'm not upset now. Frustrated, sure. That happens when someone - willfully or otherwise - reads all kinds of sh!t in my words that simply is not present.

But I'm not going to worry about it. It's not that I don't want to be helpful. It's just that there are others wanting help, and limited time. So I'll go pick someone that wishes to have a useful discussion. I'll sincerely wish you good luck, though. There are other people here who love to help, too. Maybe one of them will have extra time on their hands....
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
To find actual draw use watts law. Watts = volts x amps

So say it draws 2.1A at 120v (US house current)
252W = 2.1 x 110
So always look at amps to find the real draw.

Also tortured soul is giving great answers because he is differentiating between old tech led (blurples and lights with only mono diodes like epistar/bridgelux) these lights are barely more efficient than HPS at converting electricity to light. Somewhere around 40%.
New led technology is based on white light and can go from 55-65% efficient. With that kind of range it's pretty hard to make a one size fits all answer.

But here is the solid answer. When using high efficiency Cree lights, 600-650W will match the output of a 1000W
HPS. So look for manufacturers that use Cree cxb3590 cobs, vero29 cobs, or to a lesser degree citizen cobs. Or watch YouTube vids and make your own like I did. This beast will outperform a 1000w hps with 666w of white and red light. And I proudly made it myself.
 

Caconym

Well-Known Member
Hi purpcaper

1000W of LEDs would be ample for your space. The problem (as you seem to have discovered) is trying to figure out the true output of a panel based on the advertised equivalent wattage. Unfortunately there isn't a fit-all conversion ratio as it is dependent on the efficiency of the lights relative to HID lighting, which varies wildly with quality etc. and the manufacturers may boost the numbers. If you can find figures for the actual power draw of a panel or panels and aim for around or just over 1000W draw you should be good to go.

There are so many variables involved as well as personal taste, the technology is fairly new, and cannabis growing is still quite underground, so it is difficult for anyone to give a definite answer to this sort of question even if they are an LED super guru (which I'm not).

My personal advice would be to look at DIY COB LEDs either in a kit or do it from scratch. It's potentially expensive and requires some technical skills and a bit of maths but you can build a lighting system with a very high efficiency, fantastic light quality and even coverage that is designed specifically to your space and grow setup.

If you want to go with panels I'd say get 4 panels with a power draw of 300-400w each. Might not be the absolute optimum but it will definitely grow you some decent plants. Have a read about the forum and see what other people are doing in a similar space, that should give you something to compare with.

Good luck on your quest
Peace
 

1greenthumb

Member
Best to research grow journals with your same space using leds...Jay233 is in 4x4 using The PerfectSun by Black Diamond LED who is a sponsor. It pulls 675w and is proven to produce over 2lb in that space
 

purpcaper

New Member
I appreciate your answer. Thank you for the details and being patient with my problem, it is a pita but Im getting there. i just dont understand how in an industry such as electronics why a standard or clean cut amount is not controlled or mandated. Kinda how the tv industry got screwed for that hertz scandal.
 
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