FiveToMidnight's First Grow - Coco/Perlite - NL - MarsHydro 300W LED - 2015

[FiveToMidnight]

A few hours sleep does a creaky old body good.

I know not of LED lights other than for what they would cost to replace all my old magnetics I could grow pot for a couple of years at least.

I'm not fond of rapid rooters, peat pucks and the like. Very small pots or seed starters with the same media the plants will grow in is best. I use a screen the same mesh as mosquito screen, 1mm mesh, to filter out the chunks in my ProMix HP and have a great medium to start seeds or cuttings in. I also have a pill jar lined inside with 150 grit sandpaper that I put my seeds in and shake gently for a full minute to lightly abrade the surface of the seed so it absorbs water easily and also get through any residual skin oils from people handling the seeds with their fingers. Use tweezers to move seeds around. I plant directly into the promix without soaking or paper towels for excellent germination rates even with 10 yo seeds where 50% is damn good. The 9 - hole pots I use look like this. Fill only as many holes as you need.

You might want to get the sprouts started under CFL light 5-12am. One 23W 5000 - 6500K CFL does a great job starting them with very little chance of doing any harm and you'd want that no more than 3" away. After they have a couple of sets of true leaves and are in their bigger pots the under the big light they go.

The thing you want to avoid is tall, stretched out sprouts that look like they belong on a plate of chicken chow mien. Some folks say have a fan blowing on them enough to have them waving in the breeze all the time but that can dry them out real fast and even give them wind burn. What I do is once I see the jagged tips of the first true leaves starting to poke out I flick them back and forth with a finger tip. Gently at first a couple or more times a day then with increasing vigor as they get stronger. A few strains grow so short and bushy that there is no need for this.

Syringes are an excellent way to always have very accurate measurements Skybound and I have many. I used to refill my printer's ink cartridges and kept the syringes and blunt needles that came with the kits. The local farm supply store is a good source for larger ones and also food grade, clear plastic tubing that fits over the tip to make it easier to get the nutes out of the bottles or grab samples out of one of my DWC tubs. My favorite is an old 30cc glass one. Super smooth action but I have a couple of 60cc plastic ones with tubing on them for larger quantities. When using one to mix up your nutes keep a small container of clean water handy. After taking one nute suck up a small amount of water, 2cc or so in a 12cc one and then pull the plunger all the way back, shake it quick and squirt the rinse into the jug you are adding nutes to. Repeat and on to the next nute. This procedure prevents cross contamination of the various things you will stick it in.

When someone says use say 250ppm don't sweat it. At that level 50ppm +/- is just fine. At higher levels 100ppm +/- is fine too. Same with pH. If your target is 6.0 and it reads 0.2 either side of that it's close enough. pH pens are never dead on and people that have a $50 one that reads to 2 significant digits like 5.83 are deluding themselves. You'd need to spend $1000 or more to get that kind of accuracy with any degree of confidence and that extra digit is really meaningless to a grower.

I only check the ppm for DWC. Growin in pots I just use 1/4 strength for seedlings until the get 3 or 4 nodes and are starting to take off then 1/2 for a feeding or 2 then 3/4 for really good growth. Rarely do I go full strength until a week before I flip when I will go full but use 1/2 the grow and 1/2 the bloom and a bit of Big Bud to prime them for flowering.

I saved a long post I did in another thread about this stuff and it follows. I'll highlight some of the more important points pertinent to your situation and some is a repeat of what's above.

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The whole idea of the pH Perfect line is that you don't have to worry about adjusting the pH of your water. In fact you probably won't be able to change it from whatever you get once the nutes are in the water. The pH buffers in the nutes will resist changing the pH from what they want it to be and AN has engineered it to stay at the pH that is best for pot. I'm a chemist and not exactly sure how they do it.

There is no way to tell you when to water/feed. For potted plants I water when they need it. Every 4 or 5 days is about when I need to water my big ones. I know when to water by hefting the pots. They feel very light when it's time but the plants aren't drooping yet.

Allow your plants to dry out one time enough to just begin to droop then lift the pot up and really feel the weight. Jiggle it up and down so your brain gets the feel for it. Then use something that you can keep track of how much water it takes to saturate that pot until it can't take any more water. (I measured water into a 2L pop bottle and marked every 100ml with a felt pen and did the same to a 4L milk jug but marked it every 250ml.) Then hoist that pot up and feel it's weight. Wait until that pot feels almost as light as when it dried right out but the plants are still up and happy then it's time to water again. You could also keep a same size pot full of you dry soil mix to compare to until it becomes 2nd nature. Three days is about perfect for watering as a general rule. If you have to water every day or every 2nd day it's time to repot to something bigger. I have catch pans under my pots so when it runs out I let it sit in it for a half hour or so then suck out the excess with a turkey baster. That way I know the root ball is saturated with no dry areas. I sometimes water from the bottom by filling the pan and letting it wick up so that I can let the top 3" stay dry to help prevent gnats. Always seems to be a few buzzing around.

If you know how much water it takes to soak the plant then you can mix up your nutes more accurately or if in a hurry just dump 80% of that amount in and head out the door knowing they have adequate water.

Measure your nutes etc accurately as well. I have a bunch of different sized syringes from 1cc up to 60cc to draw up nutes from the jugs and then squirt them into the tub or watering can. The local farm supply has a big assortment and also had clear plastic tubing so you can fit some onto the end of the syringe and more easily get the nutes out. Keep a glass of plain water to suck up a little bit twice between different bottles of nutes and rinse the tube and syringe so you don't cross contaminate the concentrated products.

It is a real good idea to have a small aquarium air pump and air stone to aerate any water be it tap, RO or distilled. Then it is saturated with as much O₂ as possible and good for preventing root rot. I have a dual outlet one for that so I can do two jugs at once when filling a tub. If I only have one jug to do I just drop both stones in. Distilled water has almost zero oxygen in it. It's "flat" water. If no air pump is available then left standing in an open pail for a day will let it absorb oxygen from the air.

I only ever use RO or distilled water for my plants in pots or DWC. My distiller died about a year ago so it's been RO ever since. Either is better than using tap water. Most tap water is pretty hard and causes salts buildup in the soil that interferes with everything. Get a water quality report from your supplier. Usually a phone call to your city/town can get you an email of their latest test results or it might be on their website. If they ask why you want this info ask them why they need to know that. Or tell them you want to get into brewing your own beer or start raising salt water tropicals or grow rare orchids. None of their damn beeswax. As a consumer you have the right to that info so screw 'em with a big stick. Best to be polite until you have that info tho.

All I got for now.

L8r

I don't have any CFL's at this time and want to try to avoid spending anymore money, it has already become quite an expensive project. I have however put one under the light last night as it had just sprouted. I have left the light at its maximum height as advised by Skybound.
I also have a small fan inside the box but this is for temperature control more than airflow, however it works for that too. I don't think it is too much but will have to experiment and see what happens.
I got some syringes as advised so will follow both yours and Skybound's directions on mixing.
It's great to know PPM has some buffer and not need to be perfect necessarily. I realise the closer to perfect the better but it's nice to know I have some room for error.

What is this air stone you speak of? I have heard others mention them too but have been told it is not essential. Could you please explain how I would use these please?

I have a water report downloaded from the local water supplier and can post if you are interested, I'm not really sure what I need to take note of or what it is telling me.

Thanks heaps for so much information, I really do appreciate all the help. As mentioned, I couldn't do without people like yourself and Skybound

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Had the first little sprout appear last night and has been moved under the light which is sitting at its maximum height.
Second one started appearing this morning and will be put under the light this afternoon when I get home from work.

She looking ok so far you guys think?

 

[OldMedUser]

I don't have any CFL's at this time and want to try to avoid spending anymore money, it has already become quite an expensive project. I have however put one under the light last night as it had just sprouted. I have left the light at its maximum height as advised by Skybound.

What is this air stone you speak of? I have heard others mention them too but have been told it is not essential. Could you please explain how I would use these please?

I have a water report downloaded from the local water supplier and can post if you are interested, I'm not really sure what I need to take note of or what it is telling me.

Thanks heaps for so much information, I really do appreciate all the help. As mentioned, I couldn't do without people like yourself and Skybound

That LED of yours isn't so powerful that 18" up would harm that sprout. I can almost promise it's going to stretch more than you want or what it would do with one $5 CFL close to it. I hope I'm wrong. I have been accused of being wrong before.

Peat pots! DOH! I was thinking of those expandable peat pucks which some use and some lose with. Those are great filled with the same dirt they are destined to grow in. Makes it even easier to prune the long roots that will gather at the bottom. When it's time to repot do it just before they need watering so the rootball hold together nicely. Get a clean bread knife, lay the plant on it's side and saw the bottom 1/2", 1cm, off the bottom then remove the rest of the pot and stick it in it's new home and water in well. A sharp utility knife should slice the shell open so it peels off easy.

Air stones are those thing you use in an aquarium to keep the fish alive. A cheap air pump, air tubing and a 6" stone should be no more than $15 - $20 and well worth it. Bubbling your tap water will drive out the chlorine really well too. Won't help if they use chloramine to disinfect the water tho.

Post that water report up here so I can let you know what to watch out for and how much flushing you should do to wash all the mineral buildup out of your pots. My diploma is in environmental chemistry from 3 decades ago so I'm rusty but still know lots more than the average stoner about water quality. Post graduate studies in fisheries focusing on salmonid farming on and off shore as well. Lots of water quality concerns in that field.

L8r

 

[FiveToMidnight]

That LED of yours isn't so powerful that 18" up would harm that sprout. I can almost promise it's going to stretch more than you want or what it would do with one $5 CFL close to it. I hope I'm wrong. I have been accused of being wrong before.

Peat pots! DOH! I was thinking of those expandable peat pucks which some use and some lose with. Those are great filled with the same dirt they are destined to grow in. Makes it even easier to prune the long roots that will gather at the bottom. When it's time to repot do it just before they need watering so the rootball hold together nicely. Get a clean bread knife, lay the plant on it's side and saw the bottom 1/2", 1cm, off the bottom then remove the rest of the pot and stick it in it's new home and water in well. A sharp utility knife should slice the shell open so it peels off easy.

Air stones are those thing you use in an aquarium to keep the fish alive. A cheap air pump, air tubing and a 6" stone should be no more than $15 - $20 and well worth it. Bubbling your tap water will drive out the chlorine really well too. Won't help if they use chloramine to disinfect the water tho.

Post that water report up here so I can let you know what to watch out for and how much flushing you should do to wash all the mineral buildup out of your pots. My diploma is in environmental chemistry from 3 decades ago so I'm rusty but still know lots more than the average stoner about water quality. Post graduate studies in fisheries focusing on salmonid farming on and off shore as well. Lots of water quality concerns in that field.

L8r

I thought the LED should be fine as I was advised it would be appropriate by the vendor, however I realise they are mainly concerned in making sales and can sometimes say what you want to hear. But SmokeSara is a member here and appears to have a good reputation for being truthful. She advised me to get this one over a different one that was more expensive so I learn towards trusting her advice.

You mention cutting the bottom of the peat pots. I was under the impression you just stuck them in the bigger pot without doing anything to them. Does cutting them make them grow better or something of the sort?

Ahh yes, I know what you mean now. We used to use them in our old fish tank. Would I put these in the basins of the pots or does it go in the main water source? Sorry just a bit confused with this one.

Here is what I got from the water website.
Thanks again for the help!

 

[Skybound]

Great posts by OMU!!! For starters, I too suggest downgrading to CFLs for use with seedlings and clones. The light is way less intense and more friendly to new growth. CFLs are sold literally everywhere (here in the states) and are dirt cheap. Also it is easy to find various color temperatures which makes it easier to shop for the 2 main color spectrums growers like (6500k for vegetative growth and 2700k for bloom). I made 2 different DIY reflectors for use with CFLs and will post pics.

Also, (here in the states) we have a store called Tractor Supply Co. which is a large farm store and as OMU said, carries a wide range of syringes. I've found that the plastic ones, even when flushing between nutrient components, still degrade over time, so don't expect any one syringe to last more than 1 or 2 grows. None the less, they are invaluable for accurate mixing.

I've seen Sara's name in other journals and I know her reputation for honesty is sound. I'm also an HID guy, so I can't advise about LEDs, except for general knowledge. Your closet is short so starting at the max height shouldn't make your seedlings stretch, but if you notice that they are growing very tall, lower the light 15-20 cm and observe. Judging the size of your cabinet, you might be best served with a very small clip on fan, or even a low CFM PC fan. The trick is to direct the breeze at a wall, but not perpendicular to the wall, rather almost parallel to it so the breeze glides along the wall and to the next wall creating a circular motion of sorts inside the cabinet. This will produce a gentle, but constant breeze that will challenge the seedlings and promote stronger and more flexible tissues. It would also be wise to keep a small container of water in the corner of the cabinet somewhere. When the breeze glides across the surface of the water, it will lightly moisten the air and raise the relative humidity (RH). High humidity (60% +) is good for seedlings and clones. As they get older, you can let the RH subside and when you get into bloom, you'll be tasked at taking the humidity out of the air, but you have time to plan for that. I have some 12 volt dehumidifiers that work pretty good and only draw a fraction of the current that traditional models use.

I noticed that you only have 2 of the 3 parts that are regularly used as GH Flora series. Is there a specific reason why? If you'll be getting Flora Grow, I have a very easy to follow recipe for veg, transition and bloom, but it would be pointless for me to outline them if you dont have all the parts.

CFL Wing Reflector Design

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Great posts by OMU!!! For starters, I too suggest downgrading to CFLs for use with seedlings and clones. The light is way less intense and more friendly to new growth. CFLs are sold literally everywhere (here in the states) and are dirt cheap. Also it is easy to find various color temperatures which makes it easier to shop for the 2 main color spectrums growers like (6500k for vegetative growth and 2700k for bloom). I made 2 different DIY reflectors for use with CFLs and will post pics.

Also, (here in the states) we have a store called Tractor Supply Co. which is a large farm store and as OMU said, carries a wide range of syringes. I've found that the plastic ones, even when flushing between nutrient components, still degrade over time, so don't expect any one syringe to last more than 1 or 2 grows. None the less, they are invaluable for accurate mixing.

I've seen Sara's name in other journals and I know her reputation for honesty is sound. I'm also an HID guy, so I can't advise about LEDs, except for general knowledge. Your closet is short so starting at the max height shouldn't make your seedlings stretch, but if you notice that they are growing very tall, lower the light 15-20 cm and observe. Judging the size of your cabinet, you might be best served with a very small clip on fan, or even a low CFM PC fan. The trick is to direct the breeze at a wall, but not perpendicular to the wall, rather almost parallel to it so the breeze glides along the wall and to the next wall creating a circular motion of sorts inside the cabinet. This will produce a gentle, but constant breeze that will challenge the seedlings and promote stronger and more flexible tissues. It would also be wise to keep a small container of water in the corner of the cabinet somewhere. When the breeze glides across the surface of the water, it will lightly moisten the air and raise the relative humidity (RH). High humidity (60% +) is good for seedlings and clones. As they get older, you can let the RH subside and when you get into bloom, you'll be tasked at taking the humidity out of the air, but you have time to plan for that. I have some 12 volt dehumidifiers that work pretty good and only draw a fraction of the current that traditional models use.

I noticed that you only have 2 of the 3 parts that are regularly used as GH Flora series. Is there a specific reason why? If you'll be getting Flora Grow, I have a very easy to follow recipe for veg, transition and bloom, but it would be pointless for me to outline them if you dont have all the parts.

CFL Wing Reflector Design

I do take your suggestions seriously and I'm not trying to downplay them but I think I will try to stick with the LED for now. Only because of costs (I'm quite broke at the moment) and I don't have a lot of time over the next few weeks to work on it unfortunately. I will definitely have it on the list for grow number 2!

I do believe we have the same sort of farm supplies here being we are quite a rural country, but very hard to find in the city where I am based. I find chemists have the syringes but will have to search for a while to find the other things. Not many people have use for them here.

I will keep the light at full height for now and see what happens but it makes me worry that it wont be able to go high enough once the girls start growing. I guess we will see. May turn out that we need to swap for CFL's during the whole grow, however I'm hoping that wont be the case.
At the moment the small fan is blowing diagonally accross the box, should this be moved? You say it should be parallel. Do you mean it should blow air from one side to the other across the back wall for example?

I have some water in there at the moment and hoping it will help raise the humidity but could you show an example of the dehumidifiers that you use? Are they cheap and small? I have only seen large ones used for living rooms and the like.

I was advised to use those two nutes by another experienced grower that uses the same formula. I was looking for something easy and he and a few others advised on these as it was what they used.

 

[Skybound]

THIS is the model of dehum I used. I bought them because I worry of power draw and growing in winter, I did not need to remove a lot of RH from my large room, so something like this would probably work great in your small cabinet.

If in your pics, the small white thing with louvers is your fan, and it is in the rear corner as pictured, just direct the air flow away from the flower pots and more towards the rear or side wall. The breeze will quickly assimilate to the contour of the wall and only reverberate some incidental gentle breezes backwards towards the plant. Later in the plant's lives you will be able to oscillate the wind across the plants, but for seedlings, this will be too much wind, hence the wall aimed suggestion. For the record, it is only a temporary fix, just for seedlings. Cloning doesn't use fans at all as a much higher degree of air control is needed to start with.

Here is the GH 3 Part Flora Series, of which you have 2 parts. If you have already located a recipe that only uses 2 of them, then I'd say stick with that as it's cheaper anyways. Come to think of it, I think I've come across some threads where growers have formulated a good recipe with 2 of the 3 parts called The Lucas Recipe, or something along those lines. At any rate, I do hope you have detailed descriptions to the recipes you found, and if also possible, perhaps asking any users of that recipe to also sub up to this journal to answer questions you may have along the lines. Myself, and I'm certain OldMedUser also will not mind at all if we offer a suggestion and for whatever reason you do not accept. Don't think you're the first person to say no to someone trying to help. I myself have often went against suggestions from my personal mentor, plus also other 420 members offering free advice. There's no feelings being hurt if you choose other directions, especially since you know each and every particular that influences your situation, whereas we just know the hobby and a few extra details that you've shared. None the less, myself, OMU and others may feel the desire to frequently reiterate a suggestion, so it'll be a 2 way street on that.

Can't wait to see your girls pop!

 

[OldMedUser]

Fairly hard water. Going to be hard to get the pH down and keep it there with all the alkalinity.

The column on the right is the actual test results the other ones are the type of measurement used eg: mg/L which = ppm.

The TDS or Total Dissolved Solids is 100 - 136ppm which in itself isn't great but not too terribly bad.

The alkalinity is another problem entirely. That is a measure of hardness and what will make it difficult to get the pH down from the 7.8 - 8.0 they test it at and keep it there. It's like a buffering compound that will resist change.

With this water I HIGHLY recommend you start using RO water instead. It will save you a lot of constant work preparing your water for your plants and the problems you will inevitably run into down the line.

You will need a pH pen with at least pH 7 calibration sol'n to make sure it's accurate. Accurate measuring devices like the syringes I think you said you got and a bit of patience. A ppm pen isn't needed for this but you should have one.

You need an accurate amount of water of water to do this the first time say 1gal/4L or a full container you will use regularly to pH your water in. With water like yours you can knock the pH down to say 6. Leave it for an hour or more and it will be back at it's original 8. Keep doing that while keeping track of how much pH down you are using until it finally stays stable at 6.

Say it took 20ml/CCs to get it stable at 6. Now you know how much to add to each new container of tap water of the same volume to get it there. Put 18ml in then check it 12 hours later and then maybe add the other 2ml.

Having that air stone going in there will speed up the reaction while it aerates the water.

For every 2 to 4 gals of that water you give to your plants you will need to flush to prevent salts buildup so keep notes on how much water you are giving them. With 3 pots that will be after every 6 - 12 gals used in all. That means more flushing as the plants get bigger.

To flush properly you need to use 2 - 3 times the volume of the pot. Good news is you can use the tap water straight for that and as a final flush use your pH balanced water with your regular dose of nutes for a feeding. Gonna be a PITA getting all that flush water out of your pans. May I suggest a small wet/dry vac with something attached to the nozzle to hold the tip in the tray while you pour water in the pot. Gonna be fun eh.

RO water and pH Perfect nutes are sounding pretty good by now I bet and I'm not trying to make it sound harder than it really is. AN doesn't give me a kick-back but 14 years of using their products tells me what works well.

You mention cutting the bottom of the peat pots. I was under the impression you just stuck them in the bigger pot without doing anything to them. Does cutting them make them grow better or something of the sort?

You do not want to leave the peat pot intact when you transplant. They do not fall apart as quickly as advertised and the roots will find one hole and go out there rather than spread evenly thru the pot.

Cutting the bottom off a half inch or more up is to get rid of any long, stringy roots so the roots above branch out in all directions. I do that with every repotting from starter pot to 3" square pot then 2L - 4L- 8L then a final 16L pot. Lots of roots that fill the pot from top to bottom. I shave the sides off as well if there are long roots wrapped around the root ball. More roots = bigger, more robust plants = more buds.

L8r

 

[FiveToMidnight]

THIS is the model of dehum I used. I bought them because I worry of power draw and growing in winter, I did not need to remove a lot of RH from my large room, so something like this would probably work great in your small cabinet.

If in your pics, the small white thing with louvers is your fan, and it is in the rear corner as pictured, just direct the air flow away from the flower pots and more towards the rear or side wall. The breeze will quickly assimilate to the contour of the wall and only reverberate some incidental gentle breezes backwards towards the plant. Later in the plant's lives you will be able to oscillate the wind across the plants, but for seedlings, this will be too much wind, hence the wall aimed suggestion. For the record, it is only a temporary fix, just for seedlings. Cloning doesn't use fans at all as a much higher degree of air control is needed to start with.

Here is the GH 3 Part Flora Series, of which you have 2 parts. If you have already located a recipe that only uses 2 of them, then I'd say stick with that as it's cheaper anyways. Come to think of it, I think I've come across some threads where growers have formulated a good recipe with 2 of the 3 parts called The Lucas Recipe, or something along those lines. At any rate, I do hope you have detailed descriptions to the recipes you found, and if also possible, perhaps asking any users of that recipe to also sub up to this journal to answer questions you may have along the lines. Myself, and I'm certain OldMedUser also will not mind at all if we offer a suggestion and for whatever reason you do not accept. Don't think you're the first person to say no to someone trying to help. I myself have often went against suggestions from my personal mentor, plus also other 420 members offering free advice. There's no feelings being hurt if you choose other directions, especially since you know each and every particular that influences your situation, whereas we just know the hobby and a few extra details that you've shared. None the less, myself, OMU and others may feel the desire to frequently reiterate a suggestion, so it'll be a 2 way street on that.

Can't wait to see your girls pop!

Thank you for the pic. What is it called and I will see if it is available here, or something of the sort.

The small fan does not appear in the pics I have posted as it was only added last night and I haven't taken a new picture yet. I will do this tonight and post up.
However I edited a picture with labels so you can see what everything is and where the fan is sitting.
I think I understand what you mean though and will make the changes before posting the pic so you can direct from there.

I will hunt down where I got the recipe from and post it up. I have a feeling it was on the other forum I am also a member of though. I will find it!
Very good advise to get them to sub to the journal though, would be good to get their running commentary on that. I will see where I found it.

It's great that you are so understanding, I find it sometimes difficult to talk to people on forums as many people are very quick to take offence and and get annoyed when you reject or don't immediately accept their suggestions. I really appreciate any help I can get and really don't want to offend anyone or seem unappreciative for not taking their advise. I really can't thank you and everyone else who has helped enough, it's so great to find such helpful, kind and motivated people!

Can't wait to get home and see how everything is going!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Fairly hard water. Going to be hard to get the pH down and keep it there with all the alkalinity.

The column on the right is the actual test results the other ones are the type of measurement used eg: mg/L which = ppm.

The TDS or Total Dissolved Solids is 100 - 136ppm which in itself isn't great but not too terribly bad.

The alkalinity is another problem entirely. That is a measure of hardness and what will make it difficult to get the pH down from the 7.8 - 8.0 they test it at and keep it there. It's like a buffering compound that will resist change.

With this water I HIGHLY recommend you start using RO water instead. It will save you a lot of constant work preparing your water for your plants and the problems you will inevitably run into down the line.

You will need a pH pen with at least pH 7 calibration sol'n to make sure it's accurate. Accurate measuring devices like the syringes I think you said you got and a bit of patience. A ppm pen isn't needed for this but you should have one.

You need an accurate amount of water of water to do this the first time say 1gal/4L or a full container you will use regularly to pH your water in. With water like yours you can knock the pH down to say 6. Leave it for an hour or more and it will be back at it's original 8. Keep doing that while keeping track of how much pH down you are using until it finally stays stable at 6.

Say it took 20ml/CCs to get it stable at 6. Now you know how much to add to each new container of tap water of the same volume to get it there. Put 18ml in then check it 12 hours later and then maybe add the other 2ml.

Having that air stone going in there will speed up the reaction while it aerates the water.

For every 2 to 4 gals of that water you give to your plants you will need to flush to prevent salts buildup so keep notes on how much water you are giving them. With 3 pots that will be after every 6 - 12 gals used in all. That means more flushing as the plants get bigger.

To flush properly you need to use 2 - 3 times the volume of the pot. Good news is you can use the tap water straight for that and as a final flush use your pH balanced water with your regular dose of nutes for a feeding. Gonna be a PITA getting all that flush water out of your pans. May I suggest a small wet/dry vac with something attached to the nozzle to hold the tip in the tray while you pour water in the pot. Gonna be fun eh.

RO water and pH Perfect nutes are sounding pretty good by now I bet and I'm not trying to make it sound harder than it really is. AN doesn't give me a kick-back but 14 years of using their products tells me what works well.



You do not want to leave the peat pot intact when you transplant. They do not fall apart as quickly as advertised and the roots will find one hole and go out there rather than spread evenly thru the pot.

Cutting the bottom off a half inch or more up is to get rid of any long, stringy roots so the roots above branch out in all directions. I do that with every repotting from starter pot to 3" square pot then 2L - 4L- 8L then a final 16L pot. Lots of roots that fill the pot from top to bottom. I shave the sides off as well if there are long roots wrapped around the root ball. More roots = bigger, more robust plants = more buds.

L8r

Thank you for that breakdown, makes those tables a hell of a lot easier to understand lol!
I have been unable to find RO water, however I'm not really sure where to look. I do however have 10L of Industrial Distilled Water I can use and may continue to use after hearing your assessment of those tables.
I do have both a PH and EC Pen as well as syringes so should be fine to measure everything I need.

When you said "You need an accurate amount of water of water to do this the first time say 1gal/4L or a full container you will use regularly to pH your water in. With water like yours you can knock the pH down to say 6. Leave it for an hour or more and it will be back at it's original 8. Keep doing that while keeping track of how much pH down you are using until it finally stays stable at 6.
Say it took 20ml/CCs to get it stable at 6. Now you know how much to add to each new container of tap water of the same volume to get it there. Put 18ml in then check it 12 hours later and then maybe add the other 2ml."
Is this using the normal tap water or the RO/Distilled water?

Also you said "Having that air stone going in there will speed up the reaction while it aerates the water."
So the air stones are meant to be in the water you will be using to feed your plants? Not in the water sitting in the box itself? Sorry i know that's a major noob question lol

When will I need to start flushing? I have read that it wont be needed until a week or two after starting the nutes but haven't seen many people mention it in too much detail.

To be honest, if i hadn't already bought the nutes I would look at the AN range you suggest, I don't doubt it would be very good for my grow. I will have them top of the list for when these run out or I am ready for the second grow, which ever comes first.

I wasn't aware that I should be cutting the pots as you suggest but what you say makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for the pictures too, pictures say 1000 words as the saying goes and in these cases I feel they really do. Much easier to look at an example than to try and interpret what someone has written. Although between yourself and Skybound I am getting some really amazingly good explanations!
I will definitely make sure I do that when they are ready for transplanting.

 

[Sir Budlovski]

I'm Gunna sub along for your journal mate , looks good and your getting plenty of help I'm interested to see how it all works out for you

A few things.
Just from pieces I've read through some may explaained abit already though.
When it comes to pots and you mentioned someone said its better to go straight to the last pot, that's generally the rule for auto flowers, with fems I repot a lot and I've never Haas them show any shock.
I too am using coco, I like to start off in the expandable jiffy pellets, then once the seedlings up with a little root underneath, I transplant to a party cup with coco/perlite mix, then I go through another 3 different pot sizes till I reach the final one, with coco I like to avoid to much medium to root because it can stay moist for too long and start getting abit stagment in the pots.

I too usually start with a fluorescent tube type light at seedling stage to get them started but I have used my led from the start and had no problems just keep it up abit higher then normal for a week or 2 and start slowly lowering as you go.l and you shouldn't have a problem.

What type of coco are you using?
A lot of the time with coco and led combinations you'll want to have some cal/mag on hand due to the fact they are more like to suffer from those deficiencies with the led/coco combo.
I use canna coco with perlite and clayballs, with the canna coco nutes and when you get it going it usually works quite well.
Good luck with your growing mate

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I'm Gunna sub along for your journal mate , looks good and your getting plenty of help I'm interested to see how it all works out for you

A few things.
Just from pieces I've read through some may explaained abit already though.
When it comes to pots and you mentioned someone said its better to go straight to the last pot, that's generally the rule for auto flowers, with fems I repot a lot and I've never Haas them show any shock.
I too am using coco, I like to start off in the expandable jiffy pellets, then once the seedlings up with a little root underneath, I transplant to a party cup with coco/perlite mix, then I go through another 3 different pot sizes till I reach the final one, with coco I like to avoid to much medium to root because it can stay moist for too long and start getting abit stagment in the pots.

I too usually start with a fluorescent tube type light at seedling stage to get them started but I have used my led from the start and had no problems just keep it up abit higher then normal for a week or 2 and start slowly lowering as you go.l and you shouldn't have a problem.

What type of coco are you using?
A lot of the time with coco and led combinations you'll want to have some cal/mag on hand due to the fact they are more like to suffer from those deficiencies with the led/coco combo.
I use canna coco with perlite and clayballs, with the canna coco nutes and when you get it going it usually works quite well.
Good luck with your growing mate

Thanks mate, great to have you here!

Yeah since my first advice I have chosen to go with the peat pots first, then in to 4L Pots and then to 7.5L pots. They are the biggest pots I can fit in to the space though so can't go any bigger.

I have my light at about 24" inches at the moment and seems to be fine, will try lowering it after a couple of days depending on how they react. I haven't seen the third one sprout yet so hoping that will be good by tomorrow.

To be honest, I can't remember the brand of coco, but is meant to be decent stuff. Had a few people here tell me it was ok to use.
I have been advised to get some Cal/Mag and next pay day I will be. The person I got the formula from said he didn't need it but still advised to have some on hand in case. So that will arrive shortly.

Thanks for your comments, really appreciate it and again, welcome!

 

[OldMedUser]

Thank you for that breakdown, makes those tables a hell of a lot easier to understand lol!
I have been unable to find RO water, however I'm not really sure where to look. I do however have 10L of Industrial Distilled Water I can use and may continue to use after hearing your assessment of those tables.
I do have both a PH and EC Pen as well as syringes so should be fine to measure everything I need.

Many stores sell RO water. Look for those 5gal blue water cooler jugs.

When you said "You need an accurate amount of water of water to do this the first time say 1gal/4L or a full container you will use regularly to pH your water in. With water like yours you can knock the pH down to say 6. Leave it for an hour or more and it will be back at it's original 8. Keep doing that while keeping track of how much pH down you are using until it finally stays stable at 6.
Say it took 20ml/CCs to get it stable at 6. Now you know how much to add to each new container of tap water of the same volume to get it there. Put 18ml in then check it 12 hours later and then maybe add the other 2ml."
Is this using the normal tap water or the RO/Distilled water?

For the tap water. If you used nothing but RO or Distilled you might never need to flush. I don't.

Also you said "Having that air stone going in there will speed up the reaction while it aerates the water."
So the air stones are meant to be in the water you will be using to feed your plants? Not in the water sitting in the box itself? Sorry i know that's a major noob question lol

Yep. In the water that will be used for the plants. What is this box of which you speak?

When will I need to start flushing? I have read that it wont be needed until a week or two after starting the nutes but haven't seen many people mention it in too much detail.

Re-read my post about all this. The info is all there.

To be honest, if i hadn't already bought the nutes I would look at the AN range you suggest, I don't doubt it would be very good for my grow. I will have them top of the list for when these run out or I am ready for the second grow, which ever comes first.

You have enough for 3 or 4 grows that size. If you haven't opened them you could return them and get the AN unless you ordered it online.
The 3 part one is good but I moved up to Sensi Grow and Connoisseur. They make Sensi Bloom too, a bit cheaper than the Connie

I wasn't aware that I should be cutting the pots as you suggest but what you say makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for the pictures too, pictures say 1000 words as the saying goes and in these cases I feel they really do. Much easier to look at an example than to try and interpret what someone has written. Although between yourself and Skybound I am getting some really amazingly good explanations!

Happy to help mon.

I will definitely make sure I do that when they are ready for transplanting.

L8r

 

[FiveToMidnight]

Pictures from tonight as promised!

 

[FiveToMidnight]

L8r

Thanks again, I will see where I can find some RO water and re-read what you said about flushing.

Unfortunately I did order the nutes online, so no returns at this point. They weren't too expensive though and I wasn't planning on necessarily having any left after the first grow as I didn't know how much I would have to use. So I'm happy to buy some more for the next round and see which works better. I want to experiment a bit, it's just that I have pretty much maxed the budget for this one so far, so have to stick with what I have got and improve next time.

I took some more pics from tonight and posted above so you can see how they're going after day one in the box (this box I speak of is the grow box )

 

[OldMedUser]

What are you using to take your pics. That pink is as bad or worse than the hps yellow. lol

My little Nikon with the manual white balance feature died so I'm stuck with an older Sony, iPhone4 or Samsung Tab.

Might be able to score anew one soon tho.

L8r

 

[FiveToMidnight]

What are you using to take your pics. That pink is as bad or worse than the hps yellow. lol

My little Nikon with the manual white balance feature died so I'm stuck with an older Sony, iPhone4 or Samsung Tab.

Might be able to score anew one soon tho.

L8r

Just a Sony Xperia Z3 phone so yeah, sorry about the quality lol.

Can I open it when the light is off as long as I only use a torch or normal room light to see? Or does that stuff with things?

 

[Skybound]

I see your fan up top now and it appears to be aimed right at your pots which might be harmful, especially if the air is dry. I would unmount it and lay it on it's side on the bottom in such a way that it blows to a wall and is redirected. If it oscillates, then leaving it on low should be fine as it is fairly far away from the pots.

Linking to other forums is sometimes frowned upon by mods so for the sake of peace of mind, just locate the formula and bookmark it and simply let us know you have that one covered, or just copy/paste the content with no link back to the source.

I noticed your pots sitting in trays that have water in them. This water will wick back into the pots and keep the media wettish which "can" be good at later stages of growth, but if the media stays wet for too long, the seedlings will possibly "damp off" which basically is becoming so water logged that the stem is severed from the root tip and the seedling dies, so be careful and let the media swing from wet to dry to promote root growth. Even in DWC, the point at which the main stem meets the root mass is kept out of the water level which to me suggests that "damping off" can be a concern throughout the plant's whole life.

Reconsidering your gear, and also not knowing the strain of cannabis you're growing, I am reconsidering my suggestion of frequent transplanting, only because I understand the feeling of running out of height due to a vigorous growing plant. You however will have to deal with this x3 so whether you have autoflowering cannabis or not, you might wish to only veg your plants for 3-4 weeks before commencing the bloom phase light schedule. Each plant will produce less weight in the end, but if I understand the basics of LEDs properly, you're going to want to maintain a fair amount of clearance between the LED and the top of the canopy to maximize terpene production and flavoring as those are one of the selling points of LED v. HID. I've seen journals where canopies overgrow this happy buffer zone and if a couple leaves get too high, they will blot out a lot of the light which will stunt the rest of the plant and defeat the whole purpose of choosing LED over HID in the first place. To get the most bang for your buck, you should aim to maintain that buffer zone, and you'll probably best achieve that by going into bloom as soon as the plant matures enough to start bloom.

 

[FiveToMidnight]

I see your fan up top now and it appears to be aimed right at your pots which might be harmful, especially if the air is dry. I would unmount it and lay it on it's side on the bottom in such a way that it blows to a wall and is redirected. If it oscillates, then leaving it on low should be fine as it is fairly far away from the pots.

Linking to other forums is sometimes frowned upon by mods so for the sake of peace of mind, just locate the formula and bookmark it and simply let us know you have that one covered, or just copy/paste the content with no link back to the source.

I noticed your pots sitting in trays that have water in them. This water will wick back into the pots and keep the media wettish which "can" be good at later stages of growth, but if the media stays wet for too long, the seedlings will possibly "damp off" which basically is becoming so water logged that the stem is severed from the root tip and the seedling dies, so be careful and let the media swing from wet to dry to promote root growth. Even in DWC, the point at which the main stem meets the root mass is kept out of the water level which to me suggests that "damping off" can be a concern throughout the plant's whole life.

Reconsidering your gear, and also not knowing the strain of cannabis you're growing, I am reconsidering my suggestion of frequent transplanting, only because I understand the feeling of running out of height due to a vigorous growing plant. You however will have to deal with this x3 so whether you have autoflowering cannabis or not, you might wish to only veg your plants for 3-4 weeks before commencing the bloom phase light schedule. Each plant will produce less weight in the end, but if I understand the basics of LEDs properly, you're going to want to maintain a fair amount of clearance between the LED and the top of the canopy to maximize terpene production and flavoring as those are one of the selling points of LED v. HID. I've seen journals where canopies overgrow this happy buffer zone and if a couple leaves get too high, they will blot out a lot of the light which will stunt the rest of the plant and defeat the whole purpose of choosing LED over HID in the first place. To get the most bang for your buck, you should aim to maintain that buffer zone, and you'll probably best achieve that by going into bloom as soon as the plant matures enough to start bloom.

I didn't think it would create enough air flow if it were on the ground, didn't seem to be much room for it but I will give it a go as you advise and see what happens.

Yeah I wont post any links like that, will just find the details and post them up so you cab see.

The large pots are still dry and there is no water in the trays yet. However the peat pots are sitting in a tray with water, I thought they needed to stay moist. I will remove the water if you think it will be best. Does that mean I should keep the trays for the big pots empty when they are planted too?

The strain is Northern Lights Feminised.
I do see what you say about the distance however I have seen people get some lights pretty close without doing damage. I was planning to try and keep at least 6" of clearance as that seems to be about the limit from what I see.
I'm thinking you're right on the timeframe though. Wont be huge yeilds but should be fairly decent I think

 

[Skybound]

Generally, there are lights and there are LEDs which are slightly different as the tiny diodes direct light differently that floros, HIDs or CFLs. As I said earlier, I've seen canopies get into the LED fixtures in a few journals, but never have I seen other growers put LEDs close to clones or seedlings. This is why OMU and myself have suggested getting yourself a cheap CFL bulb. They truly are the cheapest bulb you'll find in every department store or hardware store and they don't require any special sockets or fixtures to power them, just a regular light socket fed by regular house electricty. They have built in ballasts and cost generally as much as a cheesburger. The light they produce is gentle and can be placed mere inches (10 cm) from seedlings with no ill effect. If you are at all convinced and start looking for one, try to find one that emits the same color of light as the traditional mind numbing office, very bright white (oft referred to as blue). That is the same color used in my soda can reflector pic I shared in an earlier post.

As far as how much water I'd expose the roots to, if the seedling is standing up and building it's first stages of it's canopy, I'd begin decreasing the constant exposure to the wet environment and start drying the media. Because the media just so happens to be a small bit of peat or coco or whatever the type, it will only hold moisture for so long and dry out which is also not good, so you'll have to find the middle ground and keep it swinging between, but never too wet for too long or too dry for too long. As OMU stated in one of his previous posts about feeling out a wet pot verses a dry pot, the same concept should be translated down as the seedling has the beginning of it's root mass. The wetting is when the roots uptake vital water and nutrients and the drying is when the roots breathe and stretch in search of more water and nutrients. As the grower, it's your job to keep this process moving forward, but with seedlings, there is a lesser degree of forgiveness. Fret not though, the root mass will build quickly and the degree of forgiveness will thus increase which lightens your burden.