Fluorescent light info

Stix

Stix

New Member
I've been using HID light systems since the beginning. I know alot of members on these boards like to use fluorescents for various reasons. For instance, they are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run and produce much less heat. Fluorescent technology has come a long way in the past few years. They now even have Compact fluorescent bulbs which can replace any incadescent bulb. Let's just say the amount of people using fuorescents with pretty good results on these forums has peeked my interest. I'm not saying I'm gonna replace my HID's, I still think they are the best type of light for growing. But I do wanna learn more about fluorescents and possibly use them instead of my 400 watt MH I currently use for my mothers. I'm starting to do alot of research on the internet and am trying to learn everything I can about fluorescents. What types to use and when. As I go along I will keep this thread updated with different information. In the mean time I hope experienced fluorescent growers chime in with there knowledge and experiences as well.
 
What does the K mean

"K" means temperature, it stands for Kelvin. A Kelvin degree is the same size as the Celsius degree, but 373K = 0C = freezing point. Not helpful if you work in F degrees! All you need to know is that bigger K is "hotter", which is bluer and therefore referred to in lighting as "cooler" 6500K is great for vegetative growth. 3000K is warm white, sometimes called soft white, an slightly orange colour which is optimum for flowering. 4100K is cool white, the traditional colour for fluorescents which is used for basic office or shop lighting. 6500K is often called daylight, it is close to the colour of direct sunlight, in practice it is more blue than direct sunlight. Get cool whites or maybe daylights for plants.
 
Types of Fluorescents

Standard T8 fluorescent lamps offer better efficiency, lumen maintenance, colour quality, fixture optics and life-cycle costs than antiquated T12 systems. However, several other options now offer even better performance for most applications.

High-performance T8s. Fluorescent lighting technology has achieved new levels of efficiency, colour quality, and longevity in a class of products called "high-performance T8s" (sometimes called "super T8s"). Most of these products carry a price premium, but they're typically more cost-effective replacements for T12s than standard T8s (Figure 3). In many cases, high-performance T8s can also cost-effectively replace standard T8s, potentially making the tens of millions of square feet of commercial space that use electronically ballasted T8 lighting systems ripe for another round of efficiency upgrades. Today's high-performance T8 lamp-and-ballast combinations can improve system performance by 70% to 81% over a T12 "energy-saver" lamp and magnetic ballast combination, and by 23% to 31% over their most common modern predecessor–the standard 700-series, rare-earth-phosphor T8 lamp and standard instant-start electronic ballast combination.

T5 lamps. T5 fluorescent lamps are only available in metric lengths and are therefore not a good retrofit option, but they can be an effective choice in new construction or major renovations. Their efficacy is similar to that of T8 lamps, but their smaller size affords better optical control. The T5 lamp is currently designed for operation only on high-frequency, rapid-start or programmed rapid-start electronic ballasts. T5 lamps also offer high lumen maintenance, putting out as much as 97% of their original light output at 40% of rated life. And T5 lamps are designed for a high optimal operating temperature, which improves performance in enclosed fixtures and warm spaces.
 
Lumen Maintenance

Also known as lumen depreciation, lumen maintenance describes the rate at which lamps lose their ability to produce light. Lumen maintenance is measured at 40 percent of rated life and determines useful lamp life and light levels. A major maintenance advantage for using T8 lamps in place of T12 lamps is their superior lumen maintenance.

The T8 lamp declines slowly to about 92 percent of its initial lumen output and then remains steady. The T12 lamp declines more quickly to about 80 percent of its initial output and then continues to decline.

T5 bulbs slow to about 97% of its initial lumen output and then remains steady making the T5 the BEST bulb to use. Only problem with T5 bulbs is that they won't work with standard fluorescent fixtures. A T5 light fixture which has a T5 ballast must be purchased when using T5 bulbs.

If your already using T8's I don't think its worth the cost to change over to T5's. T5's are only better by 5%. But if your in the market for fluorescent lights I would choose the T5.
 
bulb swapping

T8 bulbs are designed to operate with an electronic ballast. Most ballasts made today are electronic ballasts designed for t8 bulbs. These new type of fluorescents are considerbally cheaper to run then the T12 magnetic ballasts.

T12 bulbs are designed to operate with a magnetic ballast.

It's not a good idea to swap out your T12 bulbs with T8 bulbs when using a older magnetic ballast. The bulbs may light but the life and quality of the bulb will be reduced considerably.

You can get T8 light fixtures for a relatively cheap price at Home Depot or lowes.
 
You can also swap your t5 bulbs from K6500 to K2700 bulbs for additional lighting in bloom phase.
 
If you're creative you can pack so much T8 output into a tiny space you probably won't need it all. I really think that some people have bad opinions of fluoros because they've never seen it done in a serious manner. I can tell you this much though: My T8 system is just as efficient per watt as a good metal halide, and has a much more efficient ballast. It's also cheaper to buy initially too. So many people rate types of lights by the bulb wattage, but that's only part of the picture. Ballasts use power too. Even electronic HID lights use from 20-50 watts on the ballast alone, and electronic HID has a long way to go. My T-8 shop lights, with their relatively low-quality parts, still manages to run 2 separate lamps at a draw of a few watts. Plus it operates them at a much higher frequency than the wall AC would normally. The growing power of a good set of even T8 tubes is probably under rated.
 
For keeping mothers at a moderate grow rate, I am all for florescent lighting. I have been experimenting with a technique known as ODNO (overdriving normal output) for almost 2 years now and has shown great results. I have been applying this ODNO technique to a terrarium enclosure for tropical plants.
I'm fairly new to growing MJ and have only started 1 month ago with the same principal so I have no definitive results to share yet. I have discovered that only cool white, daylight or natural sunshine tubes/bulbs are suitable for vegetative growth. Warm and soft white bulbs (including cfl's) has caused my seedlings to stretch.

For anyone interested in researching ODNO further, here is a link...
Cheap lighting - ODNO
 
cannalearna said:
How well do T12 plant grow bulbs with a full spectrum of light fair? I have a $10 fluoro ballast with 2 $10 each grow light bulbs from Home Depot. Everyone is saying to use "cool and warm". What's wrong with full spectrum?
Click to expand...

T 12 bulbs will work but the bulbs will degrade much quicker then T 8 bulbs.
Full spectrum bulbs will make your plant grow. Just not at optimum levels. You may experience more stretching using full spectrum bulbs. In my opinion your already at a somewhat disadvantage when using fluorescents to grow your plants from start to finish. If your gonna use fluorescents I would recommend using the proper type throughout the grow. During Vegetative growth your plants are looking for the blue spectrum that 6500K gives you. Why use a full spectrum bulb when only a part of the bulb is designated for blue spectrum and the other is for red? You want everything on that bulb benefiting your plant right? When you go over to flowering you should change your bulbs to 3000K. Your plants will be needing that orange spectrum more then anything. Why deprive it with a bulb that is only giving you partial of what your plant really needs?

Granted, I'm not a fluroscent grower right now. But I have been on these boards for years and have seen alot of fluorescent grows. I have also been researching alot lately about fluroescent lighting in respects to growing plants.

If you already have the bulbs and really wanna use them I say go for it. Keep a record of your growth then I would recommend the next time you change your bulbs to try the 6500K and 3000K and see what happens. Nothing beats personal comparison.
 
dipshwich said:
For keeping mothers at a moderate grow rate, I am all for florescent lighting. I have been experimenting with a technique known as ODNO (overdriving normal output) for almost 2 years now and has shown great results. I have been applying this ODNO technique to a terrarium enclosure for tropical plants.
I'm fairly new to growing MJ and have only started 1 month ago with the same principal so I have no definitive results to share yet. I have discovered that only cool white, daylight or natural sunshine tubes/bulbs are suitable for vegetative growth. Warm and soft white bulbs (including cfl's) has caused my seedlings to stretch.

For anyone interested in researching ODNO further, here is a link...
Cheap lighting - ODNO
Click to expand...
If I didn't already have my grow room dialed in I'd consider this ODNA method. I have tons of the old 4 foot floro set ups sitting around. Wouldn't take much to redirect the wiring and to add a ballast
 
cannalearna said:
Thank you for the info. I am going to get the T8 warm and cool tubes and a new ballast in addition to what I already have. This is my first garden and I want to do it right, but I expect to fail a couple times so I'm trying to watch my cost. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I use Philips Alto tubes in my grow. The 5000K, and a few 3000K. I think I still have a couple of Sylvania Octron XP tubes in 6500K as well. So called "full spectrum" lights are nothing of the sort. They're just strategically spaced phosphors creating a combined color output that is almost equal to the summer sun's light color. At least to the human eye anyway. To a plant it's not always so clear. The Alto tubes in 5000K and 3000K both have great outputs in the spectral range plants need, but the 4000K tubes in that same line are much worse for plants. However, some brands, like the Sylvania Octron XP series have great output in their 4200K lamps, and really don't have a weak tube in the lineup(they also cost twice what the Alto tubes do).

Grow tubes are not necessarily better. The 5000K Alto, and the 6500K Octron XP tubes both perform so well I can't tell a difference between them and the "plant and aquarium" tubes you see at retail stores so often. Those usually come in T12, but no matter what size, they're overpriced for what they offer, which is often nothing special. My regular tubes may not quite put out the spectral balance of those tubes, but they more than make up for it by being much more intense than those T12 plant tubes are. The plant tubes often cost upward of 5 times what the regular lamps cost too. Pick your tubes carefully. Feel free to ask me anything you want about them though. It's a subject I have spent a lot of time researching and testing.
 
oh and depending on the specific type of tubes you go with, you will want to be careful what mix of spectrums you use. In veg, using too much red can sometimes cause males and hermies in my experience. I would recommend you put no more than 1/4-1/3 of the tubes as a more red spectrum(2700-3200K), and the rest should be more blue(5000-6500K). Typically the blue helps make denser more potent buds too. In HID, lamps like HPS produce amazingly good red spectrum, but they are built a lot differently than a fluorescent tube and some of the rules of their output, how to use them, and how the plant will react to them are much different. Most "daylight" fluorescents still output a heavy balance of red to even them out to the eye. Red tubes though, do not tend to put out very good blue spectrum. So though to the eye it may appear you're overloading on blue, you're really producing an enormous amount of red as well. Switching to more red tubes would then actually cause there to be insufficient blue spectrum for good results.
 
Thanks MagicCannabus. My lights are a mess right now. I have 2 48" 40w T12's running Dr. Ott's Grow Lights, a 70w HPS (bulb was included), a 14w CFL Daylight, a 14w CFL @2700k, and a 18" 15w T8 Philips Plant and Aquarium Light. I didn't know too much red spectrum of lighting could cause hermies and or males. I thought a seeds genetics like sex was predetermined, but that's probably for another thread. Thanks for the tip.
 
It's not so much that the red light in veg causes hermies, but rather that it can bring out a natural trait which otherwise might never be stressed into appearing. A solid genetics with no hermie traits would never hermie no matter how much you messed with the lighting. Such genetics are rare though.
 
I am currently growing five plants under a home depot 4 foot dual fluorencent light fixture and i have two agrosun 40 watt t-12 full spectrum grow lights.

The gro shop guy tells me i will need a better grow light system when its time to flower i think hes just trying to get me to give him some more commision so i was hoping someone could give me some tips on what fluorencent bulbs to use side by side with this 4 foot fixture that i can get on a tight budget.
 
i just bought a 250 WATT 2700K CFL bulb for budding, along with a mogul socket . Any got any experience with these bulbs? any advice?
 
i should add that i have just the single plant now, but for future reference
how many plants could the single 250 watt 2700k cfl provide light for?
 

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