You feed fish shit and other stuff? Stuff might be the culprit to your bad results. What are the ingredients in the other stuff? It appears more and more that the one thing that we should avoid is using nitrates. Fish shit? I use Miracle Grow, the blue stuff. It is not balanced but it has a nice chelated profile of other minerals. No nitrates here. Nutrients YES, Nitrates, NOT NOW. Use nitrates during veg for a more steady uniform growth. I think if we add too much nitrate at the beginning the plant may not utilize it in time. Kinda of a Kentucky windage guess on my part.
Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
You are using the word flushing incorrectly. You are describing just giving water, which means you are starving your plants of nutrients, but you are not flushing anything, you are simply not feeding.
Flushing has always meant running excess water through the soil to wash out bad stuff.
Calmag flush? I use activated egg shell will egg white for amino acids at the same time. It does a good job but like other nutrients feeds and supplements they have the best response when there was a prior deficiency. My thinking is that plants simply do better when we make changes as a slide scale rather than an all or nothing approach.
This is my favorite place on this whole site. I could sit here with a nice bottle of wine and a stack of blunts all day. Seriously, thanks everyone. I love you.
Thanks!_ Hygrozyme is a emzyme - that "eats" old roots therefore helping nutrient up-take and has no influence on the plant and can be use with all nutrients. Use this thru whole grow and fish shit is what it stated , look at it as a nutrient, it's natrual and helps in microbal health and should not produce "salts" _ understand what you say about chelated - Thanks . the last crop I ran heavy nutrients amounts at every feeding and I even knew better, generally when using nutrients I use at least 1/2 amounts required by company (one can allways increase amounts) Thanks fotr you information !!
Nortonnabis
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the chopping of your post. (can't use 'enter' to start a new line). Hope it's ok to edit a post this way to get to the important parts..
I'm still a 'grasshopper'.
I'm trying to learn and not post too much, but must get a certain post count to be able to DM,,, I think.
And I am teachable! Would love to be a Beta Tester for the first few chapters of your book!!
Seems like most of the books I've looked into are ,, old.
My room is coming along nicely, but still gathering supplies. Thanks again for talking my into modern LED's!
I think in this case the guy over did epsom salts and needs to 'Flush'. Is that where we are?
But where are you with scientifically testing the whole 'Pre Harvest Flush' idea?
I've been reading both sides of this technique, but that's a long way off for me...
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
This is exactly the point of my work... most of the published stuff that is considered the "standard" came from the '60s and '70s! So much has happened since then! There is definitely room for my book to emerge and possibly become a best seller... time will tell.
The pre-harvest flush has been debunked except in the minds of a few old relics out there promoting the absurd idea that you can flush the plant of harshness by flushing the container right at the end. Running synthetic nutes, there are good arguments to give a proper flush at week 6, just to clear the soil of salts and get your very best uptake of water and nutes right at the end while the buds are doubling in size in the final push. A flush at the end to somehow flush the plant of something, so that the resulting smoke is cleaner... that would be like taking a bath to rid yourself of a cold; it just doesn't work that way.
Even misusing the word flush, to describe not giving nutrients, water only for the last 2 weeks, that is another situation and can easily be disproved by comparing that method of torturing the plants to an organic grow, where all the nutrients are built into the soil and are there right to the end... the organic grow will win every time.
Flushing must be done to rid the soil of salts if using synthetic nutes. There can be no debate about this, the salts do build up and they fill every slot in the cation exchange capacity built into the soil. If salt ions are taking up all the spots, then that soil can not hold nutrients, and if you f/w/f/w, only on the feed cycle will the plants have nutrients. All that is stored in there is salt, so the soil can give no nutrient support on the water pass... you may as well not pH adjust either for all the good it will do you. Fox Farms uses flushing for that purpose, but also to clear the slate of the old nutrients and start anew, such as going into bloom, or after the use of any of the solubles and moving to the next one. With their super strong nutes, not flushing at a change over point can result in lockouts.
>buzzer<
any passive media.
the 5 times bucket size thing is a bit weird too. i've flushed as a regular basis or for correcting issues in passive media for years with h202. always just made sure there was decent run off - maybe bucket capacity and a bit. less now with hempy.
i've just kept the basic practice across different media. they've all benefited. the nutes i use right now don't require it, but i've done it with all the bottle nutes i've used.
I should have said all the minerals in Miracle are chelated and in appropriate amounts except is a bit short on potassium or as I said it has a good chelated profile. I understand what I said about chelated minerals. We don't make salts, we add them to plants and call it fertilizer. Supplements and nutrients are completely different. Nutrients are found in the periodic table of elements.
Enzymes help with nutrient availability not nutrient uptake. If you want to increase nutrient uptake try adding calcium along with amino acids, ask Think of enzymes as supplements because that's what they are. It is a plant that grows like a plant. Treat it like a plant and it responds just like any plant responds. Pot growers too often try to make more more more. If a little was good put moron.
Everyone does it differently, so do I. I only grew pot twice but have been growing all my life. I didn't know I should treat pot different so, I didn't. At least at first. Anyhow the second grow was the biggest diameter buds I ever saw
Stop referring to salts and nutrients as if they are different. They are exactly the same thing. Nutes are salts.
"Flushing must be done to rid the soil of salts if using synthetic nutes. There can be no debate about this,". you are correct there should not be any debate. Only a discussion of the facts.
Flushing means a lot of things and the term has lots of uses. I'm sure you'll cover this in a chapter. I could even help you with some reference material to get you on the right path. Flushing is not automatically needed simply because of using synthetics. We often create an imbalance because we misunderstand what the plants need and over feed. This excessive feeding makes a bigger plant with bigger yield. An imbalance of nutrients almost always happens with organic growers as well. Organic has nutrient deficiencies causing plants to grow slower and smaller. Nitrogen and especially phosphorous are in short supply with organic grows.
p.s. flushing doesn't wash away bad salts. Flushing as most call it washes away excess salted nutrients. A lot has changed since the old days when 5X flushing was considered proper. 5x flushing is wrong.
I also do a half way incomplete flush. It might be me that totally overdosed on Magnesium. The GSC had some issues but those Bruce Banners are big eaters showing little sign of my massive error. Only my second pot grow. They pretty much grow like any plant with a few points of focus. Every plant has its own needs.Sorry for the chopping of your post. (can't use 'enter' to start a new line). Hope it's ok to edit a post this way to get to the important parts..
I'm still a 'grasshopper'.
I'm trying to learn and not post too much, but must get a certain post count to be able to DM,,, I think.
And I am teachable! Would love to be a Beta Tester for the first few chapters of your book!!
Seems like most of the books I've looked into are ,, old.
My room is coming along nicely, but still gathering supplies. Thanks again for talking my into modern LED's!
I think in this case the guy over did epsom salts and needs to 'Flush'. Is that where we are?
But where are you with scientifically testing the whole 'Pre Harvest Flush' idea?
I've been reading both sides of this technique, but that's a long way off for me...
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Although my training in Chemistry is very light, the following is what I believe to be true regarding salts and the CEC. Please explain to me where my thinking is incorrect.
Yes, the usable form of all of our nutrients are indeed salts. The definition of salt is as follows:
Salts can be easily identified since they usually consist of positive ions from a metal with negative ions from a non metal.
Magnesium by itself is not a salt, it is a metal, and not directly usable by the plant. Combine it with some sulphur and it becomes Magnesium sulfate, a salt. It can also be combined with carbon to become Magnesium carbonate, another salt. The same thing happens with all of our store bought nutes, mix them in water and combine them with other elements and they become the ionic form of the base nutrient (a salt) , allowing them to be available to the plant and for the soil to be able to capture them for later distribution to the roots. So far, I agree with you... everything we are working with here is a salt
What we are examining is what happens in the real world when the roots come in contact with the soil which is holding onto some ions of our nutes. The plant exchanges those ions stored in the soil in order to uptake the nute. Momentarily, because of this exchange, there is an open spot in the CEC, but there may not be any more available nutrient ions to lock into that spot. What is there though, in abundance, is the leftover salt from the EDTA chelating agent that was stripped away from the usable nutes when you mixed up your bucket. Since there is plenty of that salt hanging around after a few applications of nutrient, it quickly fills any open spots in the CEC that become available.
This useless EDTA salt then becomes solidly locked in place and does not dislodge when your new round of nutes comes in. The salt remains in position and the nutrient ion has no place to attach to in the CEC and therefore it is not available to the plant except through direct contact with the root. As long as there is easily attached to EDTA salt free in the soil, as soon as a nutrient ion is used, the EDTA falls into position, eventually locking out all the nutrients. This is called a salt lockout, and it is very common in the synthetic nute world.
Flowing water is very good at dislodging all free salts from the soil and moving them away. This includes all ionic nutrient salts and the EDTA salt. This method of clearing and resetting the CEC is called flushing
" Please explain to me where my thinking is incorrect." When you start talking about chemistry, CEC, metal that's pretty much where it went wrong. From the beginning mostly to the end there is just too much wrong. Get someone else to proof read for you. I'm am actually being nice when I say this. Do not spend more time on this book. Read a few more first.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Then I believe that you know less than I do... especially since you can't explain what you claim to know. Go jump in a lake. I left you nothing to proof read, I asked you to tell me where I am wrong. If you can't do that, your input is worthless. lol... I am wrong, but you can't tell me why I am wrong. Give me a f'n break. Stop being nice ... I did.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
@Braddah Waiheesohai, I will have another glass of wine please. 
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I can no longer let this slide either. This statement is so totally untrue that it is absurd... I grow great plants organically, and by using several methods. An imbalance almost always happens? How so? Nitrogen and especially phosphorus are in short supply?? Maybe in your garden, but certainly not in mine. You really don't know what you're talking about.
It is not that I can't explain where you are wrong. It will take so much time to cover all. Limit this to one thing and I/we can address that thing. You're not writing a book so much as opening a can of worms shit. Chemistry issues - I will not cover those. I paid for a college education education. Chemistry is not something many people understand. I have read too many books of chemistry but that was 30 years ago. Not my core competency. Stick to your core competencies and you will do better.
I am certain that you grow some smack dab good weed. I grow nice weed as well. It is easier than growing cucumbers especially because animals never get into my tent. My first grow was from bag seed. I made so many mistakes and still got better, smother, tastier weed than the original bud. Most strains are incredibly robust plants.
No one needs to know anything about this kind of chemistry to have a garden. You get deep into the weeds when you talk chemistry.
Just for the record, I believe you know way more about pot growing than I do. As for the lake? Up here they are frozen over until about mid May. In mid February we cut a big f'ing hole in the ice and jump into the icy water. I'll be thinking of you as my inspiration. I'll probably chock, but, don't let that get you excited. They have rescue divers.
You should send your soil out to be tested once in a while to see where you are at, I am sure you do this, right. What sort of numbers are you getting for your soil samples? My numbers are not deficient. Remember I use synthetic nutes and add these items in by the spoonful. I have excess nutes and salts to the point of lockout because I do not grow organic. On the other hand I should be deficient in everything after flushing.
I don't know what to think. You use the same soil over and over and over. That's awesome, you got that dialed in. Another expert grower says start each grow with fresh soil, never reuse old soil. These are two extremes. These are not facts or knowledge, only opinions. Many don't know the difference between fact and opinion.
Organic and synthetic are exactly the same. This is a fact, anything else is an opinion. Don't express an opinion as though it is a fact.
Thanks for your information ---- always wanting to learn !!!!!!!!!!!
have grown "chemical" and "organic" each but now I use both I grown organicly with the help of "chemicals" which I look at as steroids (use chemicals once a week _ - type - depends om plant stage of growth, Feel I have reached a happy medium with both !!!! *chemical and organic)
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
first, it is 36 hours of darkness that causes the magic to happen... and yes there is science to back this. It may not be University based science at this point, simply because in most places growing this stuff is still illegal, but I have made a point over the last 5 years or so to not only explain why this works, but to document it in my journals. I formed a hypothesis and a theory, and set out to prove the results. That is science, even if conducted in the grow rooms of a licensed cultivator in Missouri.
Briefly, the proven theory is this: We know that the bright lights degrade the trichomes once they are ripe. This is why we hang them and dry them in the dark. So once the amber has hit the point we need, putting them in darkness for 36 hours appears to grow both new and add length and girth to the existing trichomes. Plants still grow at night, so during this 36 hours, the trichomes continue to grow, but we don't allow bright light to degrade any of them during that 36 hours. That's all it is, lack of harmful light, but still growing. 36 hours appears to be the point when the plant starts reacting to the constant dark and no benefit seems to be gained by going longer than this. Many tests have been run and documented in my grow journals that show that 24 hours is not enough to gain any significant growth, and 36 hours seems to be the peak. Science my friend... it is being conducted every day in my grow rooms and it is documented for all to see... please check it out.
Similar threads
