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Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

LEDBud

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

It causes the leaves to yellow which removes the chlorophyll and excess nutrients from the plants system.

If you have ever tasted a bud from a plant that has had bat guano applied the week before you know what fertilizers taste like , nasty.

Why flush ?


Once flushed out the plants true aromas and flavors develop and come out.
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I just can't do it anymore, man :laugh2:

So flush is now "removing excess of chlorophyll and nutrients from the plant system" not cleaning the soil or maybe both?

And how does that happen exactly, plant just puts it back in the soil, cause she finishes flowering or cause you help it by playing dolphin sounds on your home stereo? Or maybe it's quantuum osmosis? Did you ever check what chlorophyll is? Did you ever read anything that explained basic botany?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that what you're saying is utterly false and has no scientific value and obviously you can tell me I'm wrong again, but you can only prove yourself right in some alternative realm where dreams are facts and elves are running the circus.

By the way it takes at least a month for bat guano to start breaking down phosphorus.
 

LEDBud

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Lets agree to disagree , no one is forcing you to flush so don't it matters not to me

I just can't do it anymore, man :laugh2:

So flush is now "removing excess of chlorophyll and nutrients from the plant system" not cleaning the soil or maybe both?

And how does that happen exactly, plant just puts it back in the soil, cause she finishes flowering or cause you help it by playing dolphin sounds on your home stereo? Or maybe it's quantuum osmosis? Did you ever check what chlorophyll is? Did you ever read anything that explained basic botany?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that what you're saying is utterly false and has no scientific value and obviously you can tell me I'm wrong again, but you can only prove yourself right in some alternative realm where dreams are facts and elves are running the circus.

By the way it takes at least a month for bat guano to start breaking down phosphorus.
 

TheFertilizer

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

You flush the plant, you leech the medium. People call leeching flushing as well. Flushing the plant is the idea that starving it of nutrients will cause it to use up all the stored nutrients it has. Leeching the medium is when you're dumping copious amounts of water through it hoping to leech out extra nutrients. And actually, it's most often advocated to remove excess salt build up from the salty bottle nutrients.

LEDBud, I just read your journal, you're using Pro-Mix and coco? That's soil-less.

Bob, I never heard that leeching doesn't work on soil. Good information there.

So what's the difference between soil and soil-less? I mean, promix for example is just mostly peat moss if I remember right, so what makes soil a soil? The microorganisms? So okay, if I take a bag of Fox Farms Happy Frog "soil", and then dump a crapload of water and synthetic nutrients into it until all microlife is dead and gone... Is it still soil or is it now soilless medium that once resembled soil?

In previous grows I have found that when I get yellowing issues if I leech my soil, i.e. dump gallons of water through it, the plant will react positively. I've always assumed that this was because of the conventional wisdom that it was leeching out excess salts and nutrient buildup. However, I'm using Fox Farms Happy Frog, which as far as I know is definitely soil and not soil-less. So what's really going on when that happens? I noticed that I don't have the same results when using something like Ocean Forrest; leeching doesn't seem to do squat except compact that soil.

Personally, I just try to feed as little nutrients as possible from the beginning rather than trying to rely on some kind of "flushing" process at the end. My bud has tasted great every time, burnt right, and I give it a final feed about 1 week from flower. Leeching is something I've already read as a way to kind of "hard reset" your root's environment, but it has not worked out for me so well recently. I wonder, as with a lot of things, if this is a wisdom that was applied to hydroponic gardening that people started touting as applying to soil growing as well.
 

Slowpuffer

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

You flush the plant, you leech the medium. People call leeching flushing as well. Flushing the plant is the idea that starving it of nutrients will cause it to use up all the stored nutrients it has. Leeching the medium is when you're dumping copious amounts of water through it hoping to leech out extra nutrients. And actually, it's most often advocated to remove excess salt build up from the salty bottle nutrients.

LEDBud, I just read your journal, you're using Pro-Mix and coco? That's soil-less.

Bob, I never heard that leeching doesn't work on soil. Good information there.

So what's the difference between soil and soil-less? I mean, promix for example is just mostly peat moss if I remember right, so what makes soil a soil? The microorganisms? So okay, if I take a bag of Fox Farms Happy Frog "soil", and then dump a crapload of water and synthetic nutrients into it until all microlife is dead and gone... Is it still soil or is it now soilless medium that once resembled soil?

In previous grows I have found that when I get yellowing issues if I leech my soil, i.e. dump gallons of water through it, the plant will react positively. I've always assumed that this was because of the conventional wisdom that it was leeching out excess salts and nutrient buildup. However, I'm using Fox Farms Happy Frog, which as far as I know is definitely soil and not soil-less. So what's really going on when that happens? I noticed that I don't have the same results when using something like Ocean Forrest; leeching doesn't seem to do squat except compact that soil.

Personally, I just try to feed as little nutrients as possible from the beginning rather than trying to rely on some kind of "flushing" process at the end. My bud has tasted great every time, burnt right, and I give it a final feed about 1 week from flower. Leeching is something I've already read as a way to kind of "hard reset" your root's environment, but it has not worked out for me so well recently. I wonder, as with a lot of things, if this is a wisdom that was applied to hydroponic gardening that people started touting as applying to soil growing as well.
When I started growing inside, I used FFOF mix & the FF line of nutes. And I remember FFs instructions, on their bogus feeding schedule. It said to flush about every two weeks, & I always doubted, that I was accomplishing anything. And by experimenting for a couple yrs., I did best doing what you said about managing the food supply and gradually lowering ppms to nothing by, 1 wk. before harvest. I'm growing in coco coir now, and very happy !! I'm growing 8 week strains & I cut nutes in 1/2 at end of wk. 6 & every 2 days cut in 1/2 again till week 7 till harvest, then just water. only till harvest. Only thing I taste is the natural taste of the weed. Very smooth !!
 

Lost In Nugs

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I am in the process of flushing my soil right now. 2 weeks of just Overdrive, 1 week/3x Flawless finish and 1 week/3-4x pure water on an already deficient plant should be good. On another plant i only used Flawless finish one time as a soil drench and then 3 weeks of just water. Very smooth amd tasty smoke even when quickdried in the oven...Hopefully the extended flushing on the last plant is resulting in an even better taste.
 

LEDBud

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

LEDBud, I just read your journal, you're using Pro-Mix and coco? That's soil-less.

Hey Fertilizer , I used Pro mix and Coco in the first two journals and water culture in the current journal , Remo nutrients sterile rdwc.


Where much confusion comes from is with people mixing up the mid grow soil flush with the end of flower plant flush.

So for simplicity sake , people flush the soil in grow mode to clear excess nutrients from the soil itself and flush the plant toward the end of its life / flower mode to clarify the plant material of any excess nutrients.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Continuation of flush results in rdwc


Flavor test using a Arizer Air vaporizer

Day 8 ~ tasted flushed out and flavorful

Day 13 ~ similar to Day 8 with a bit more flavor

Still smoking on Day 13 bud will know about the full flush with cure in about two weeks , the plants have been Cut down , trimmed and hung up to dry in the tent.

Flush duration 15 days in dwc and both Coco's stayed fairly green but did pale , the Bubblegums showed more yellowing with the larger one the most.

The reason they stayed green was because both the Indica and sativa plants shared the same nutrient tank , with the Sativa's being fed the Indica's somewhat stronger diet.

That combined with getting a late start on the flush with the Sativa's being the more mature of the two.


When the flush is started too late the plants will not have the need or time to consume *all* of its stored nitrogen and will stay green.

Its all in the timing

With that said the 15 day flushed green Coco taste real clean even before the cure.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 

TheFertilizer

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Hey Fertilizer , I used Coco in the first two journals and water culture in the current journal , Remo nutrients sterile rdwc.


I think where much confusing comes from is from people mixing up a mid grow soil flush out with the end of flower plant flush.

So for simplicity remember people flush the soil in grow mode and the plant toward the end of flower mode.
That's why I prefer calling it leaching. It's also a more recognizable agricultural/horticultural term.
Leaching (agriculture) - Wikipedia

Did you know "scrog" nets are actually called trellis nets?

We gotta stop making up words. :lot-o-toke:
 

LEDBud

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Did you say trellis netting ? ( I call it that as well )

It makes for a great instant drying station

The flushed Bud in question hanging around a 6 ft x 9 ft circumference of trellis netting




For easy record keeping each of the four sides has one plant on it
 

imnotbeingsar

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Wait, wait, wait. I'm on my first grow and I'm reading about flushing. What I don't understand is that if you give the plant no nutrients, why it would use up more nutrients it already has when you're not giving it as much. What about something completely organic? What if you just didn't use any nutrients at all? I know the plant itself can withstand more nutrients than most plants, however it will still grow. It's not like the most delicate plant in the world. Just because you grew with just a high quality water alone, doesn't mean that it will show signs of nutrient deficiency for every element. I think the majority factors are environment (temperature, wind, media, humidity, light, and air quality), water quality (ph, ppm, and whatever trace metals from tap water) and training techniques.

Second, just because your ppm is a couple hundred at the roots, in no way shape or form means the same for the plant itself. 100 ppm at the roots can equal to 10,000 ppm in the plant. If you feed the plant for 87.5% of it's life to gain 10,000 ppm, how would feeding it only water for the last 12.5% of it's life significantly decrease this number? If the ppm at the roots suddenly changes to zero, doesn't necessarily mean the same for the plant. At the most, you would lose a couple hundred ppm in the plant, which won't all be in the buds. However, you say that if you flush, the ppm in the plant will drop, but the bud will gain a higher ppm, even though the concept is that the lower ppm concentration is what clears out the "chemical taste" or harshness causing a better quality smoke.

Lastly, flushing has been said to trade quantity for quality. If this is so, why would the bud swell if you flushed, unless you extended the flowering period or does it swell regardless? And if it does, I can guarantee that swell would be bigger if you didn't flush. All this being said, if we didn't pump our medicine with a bunch of chemicals and bi-products like canned foods and such, or at least if more natural or organic ways were used, wouldn't that eliminate this problem completely?

Not everything I said is from this site, but here's the link: To Flush or Not to Flush - Cannabis Business Times
 

bobrown14

Grow Journal of the Month: Dec 2017
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Lets agree to disagree , no one is forcing you to flush so don't it matters not to me
OK that's fine that you tell someone if they don't want to do something they don't have to.

HOWEVER... you are in an ORGANIC soil forum advising the world on how to grow and using psudo science to back up your FALSE claims.

Someone has to call you on it... I did, Conradino did, I showed you a lot of REAL science that says it doesn't do what you think its doing and yet you won't stop telling the world you're right and science be damned.

I call B/S bro. Just sayin....

The flush paradigm comes from flushing in a soil less system - HYDROPONICS... it was not used to do anything to the plants other than cleaning out the reservoir and lines and buckets... has nothing to do with plant health in any way shape or form. Somewhere somehow..someone said it works in soil and here we are.

We are now in some form of pseudo-scientific realm of impossible growing practices being passed along as fact when in fact it's someone's fantasy story. How it became some sort of accepted way of growing cannabis in soil is well beyond any science.

Answer this .. how come this practice of flushing (if it works) is not used in any other horticultural endeavor??

I would think if soil flushing worked, everyone would be doing it in all aspects of farming/growing food/flowers IN SOIL. It's not, it won't ever be and because it is not science.

Conradino is right, the ONLY thing you can flush out of the soil in Nitrates...then what do you do with the water run off? Down the drain, throw the baby out with the bath water?? Thanks for polluting OUR environment and telling everyone else to do the same.

That's just wrong in a lot of different ways.

Your only argument is: "if you don't want to flush then don't"

Here's the thing... modern day farming has come a long way... scientists studied soil erosion/compaction, nutrient runnoff, how nitrates make their way into our lakes rivers and streams and oceans... and how this affects the health and well being of humans and the plants and animals we eat to survive. You can study these things I'm mentioning and get a doctorate in these and many similar sciences in a real college.

The outcome of these studies had led to a lot of work to AVOID nitrate runoff. From how we till the soil to the use of companion crops to hold the soil in place, and move away from heavy nitrate based chemical fertilizers... Why is that?

I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. I'm not wrong here.

This flushing paradigm reminds me of how we got to growing corn that will ONLY grow with a specific fertilizer that kills everything but the corn. That's wrong too, but we are still doing it. Food for thought.
 

303goatweed

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Well I made it the end of this and it has truly shown me that the internet is full of plenty of experienced growers that don't understand what they are doing. This thread is the epitome of the blind leading the blind.

This site is for entertainment only. 50% truth 50% hype.
 

LEDBud

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I notice peoplw who are just beginners think they doing better then they really are.

Its like people see only what they want and refute anything that displeases there limited knowledge of growing.

Its an observation that keeps showing up again and again.

And again


Must be the learning curve people go threw.

I should give them space to make mistakes ..and not be defensive

I'll leave you to it and stay clear of newbies.
 

jgrow1103

New Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Hi im a first time grower and my 2 plants are 6 weeks into flower, i have loliepopped them and i think they are coming on great the buds are swelling well and they smell great, i am defo going to try your technique, can you advice if i should be giving them nutrients every day at this stage or still twice a week as i have been doing the past 6 weeks, the leaves on my plants are turning yellow and the tips are dry and i have brown spots on some leaves.
my tempature in tent is 30 and 42 humidity with light on at night its 45 humidiry and 21 temp, oh i feed them 500ml of water a day before i put light off.

Any advice would be greatfully appreciated
You should not be Watering your plants everyday. Your plants need oxygen which means the dirt needs to be dry. Wait until the dirt is two knuckles deep dry when you stick your finger down in the dirt, and then water...cycleing your nutrients
 

Agemon

Creme de la Creme Photos of the Year: 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Aug, Sept, Oct & Nov 2017 - Photo of the Month: May 2018, Mar 2019
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

I made it through the first three pages and the opinions / facts are becoming cyclical.

My point is regarding empirical evidence versus anecdotal. We are all scientists / horticulturists to some degree. It is the the level of expertise / experience that we have.

Ive got two journals going for one grow; actually I've got two grows going and two journals covering both.

My point is this; at what point does the data i collect become relevant as scientific data?

How many grows do i have to do before my data becomes reliable?

Aaaaaand... if I can replicate the results but you can't, does that make it anecdotal?

It seems you've got big questions but you haven't listed what you want your sources to be. Every time somebody posted their experience you did not think their information fit your "scientific requirements."

The first question i have for you is, "How do you define scientific data?"
 

Integrum Stultus

On Vacation
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Controlled experiments with a hypothesis (basically how you're doing your journals) would qualify as 'scientific' in my book. [emoji1360]
 

bignugz420

Well-Known Member
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

Hi there! Yes, these are also commonly used techniques, and, they may be doing what they do for the same reasons as I explained. By eliminating light, you end photosynthesis, a highly demanding metabolic process. By eliminating another energy sink, perhaps the plant has that much more energy available for bud building.

Humidity wise, may just be a stress reaction.

Still all a hypothesis, but it all seems logically sound.

Thanks!
For dropping humidity and giving more dark is to make her think she is dying and resin is to catch pollen, by tricking her into death mode she produces much more resin for Mother Nature reasoning of procreating I do it every grow and get some frosty ladies
 

Agemon

Creme de la Creme Photos of the Year: 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Aug, Sept, Oct & Nov 2017 - Photo of the Month: May 2018, Mar 2019
re: Flushing & Leaching & Final Bud Swell

For dropping humidity and giving more dark is to make her think she is dying and resin is to catch pollen, by tricking her into death mode she produces much more resin for Mother Nature reasoning of procreating I do it every grow and get some frosty ladies
How much more dark do you give and at what time during flower do you start the process. What humidity do you drop to and at what point do you do that?
 
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