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Forcing plants to produce accessory pigments?

Water Bear

New Member
I've been doing a little bit of research on pigments, photosynthesis and adaptation.

Since plants do have the ability to produce other pigments, is it possible to force the plants to produce primarily a different pigment that would make the plant look blue, orange or red by supplying only light in different a spectrum (k or color temperature) other than 6500k and 2700k, such as 10000k or 1000k.



Or would you need to measure the lights wavelength in nanometers like LED growers?


Yes, I know this would take years but is it relatively possible and has anyone ever done it?

I'm just taking a stab in the dark.
 
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GrowGSL

New Member
Dude I have never heard of this but I am all for it.

I know there's alot of plant manipulation to be done now that we have led's which let us do just as you describe, adjust the spectrum.

Honestly I don't think you could change the color but there is more to discover that what a 1000W HID can do for sure. good luck bro and if you think of something let me know!
 

Water Bear

New Member
Dude I have never heard of this but I am all for it.

I know there's alot of plant manipulation to be done now that we have led's which let us do just as you describe, adjust the spectrum.

Honestly I don't think you could change the color but there is more to discover that what a 1000W HID can do for sure. good luck bro and if you think of something let me know!
Here's how It should be done, if it were to be TESTED:

First adjust light to a specific spectrum, other than what plants can actually use, over 8000k or under 2000k, or in nano meters over 700nm or under 300nm

You must grow both male and female cannabis seeds together so they produce off spring. You use the seeds of the generation of plants before to grow new plants. Continue for several years... Seriously... Autoflowering strains would be the best, because they would reproduce several times within one year.

My HUNCH is that the plants will, some where along the line, realize that their environment has changed and that they must adapt to the new type of light available and produce primarily the accessory pigments, thus changing the appearance of the plants color.

Only one problem, if it is successful this strain of cannabis can never exist in nature, and can only grow in the type of light it has been adapted to.

A freak plant...

It could even produce new cannabinoids...
 

GrowGSL

New Member
dude, I think we'd all be dead by the time the plant evolved. I here evolution takes tome time. I really hope someone dedicated to these studies.
 

Water Bear

New Member
dude, I think we'd all be dead by the time the plant evolved. I here evolution takes tome time. I really hope someone dedicated to these studies.
Lol, no... No one would be dead by that time, adaptations can take place in a single generation, there was a study done on lizards in California whose scale patterns are adapting to the environment as they are forced to migrate because of their environment being destroyed. But don't quote me I lost the link to the article.

No doubt however it COULD take quite some time, maybe even 50 years. But I am positive that the plant would begin adaptation around 5-15 generations, and with auto flowering strains 5 generations is within one year. Something tells me that if everything is done right, In 5 years the plant will have fully adapted.

I really think this is possible.

I just don't really know how I would get started because I don't really have the space or time to do it.

If someone is reading this who can do it, do it.

Take pictures, record data daily, RESEARCH-EXPERIMENT-RECORD
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
My HUNCH is that the plants will, some where along the line, realize that their environment has changed and that they must adapt to the new type of light available and produce primarily the accessory pigments, thus changing the appearance of the plants color.
Evolution is not about the plants - or animals, either, for that matter - realizing something and deciding to adapt.

Occasionally - a rather small percentage in any given generation of offspring - there are sports (mutants). Most often - law of averages? - they have mutated in such a way that they do not survive. Or they do but their base is small enough that they do not really influence the state of the overall population in any significant way. Or they - or their direct offspring - are sterile.

Once in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction (repeated) of a blue moon, the mutation is one that improves the species and is also able to breed. If that mutation gives the mutant a significant (in some way) leg up on the rest of the species, the survivability of that mutant's line vs. the rest of the line increases - and with even more luck, its mutated trait(s) is/are not bred out of that species.

Picture bacteria - or insects - that we vaccinate against or spray for. We do our best to decimate them, but now and then some will be found that are resistant. If they are strong in other ways and viable breeders, a few generations down the line (or a few hundred), enough of them are around that we describe them as being resistant. That's a case of a mutation being a good one (for them).

Take a few hundred thousand seeds, sprout them, and try growing them under your modified light spectrum. Some very few might be sports that can survive. Maybe. (If not, take a few hundred thousand more...) If you find them, see if they can be bred to produce viable offspring and if those offspring will produce.

You cannot really create this - all you can do is gather a large enough population and hope that you spot it. (Ok, there is some hope that we might be heading towards understanding enough of the gene map and - eventually - the mechanisms that cause the changes that we will one day be able to modify them directly, but we are not there yet.)

You can breed for traits such as short plants that branch out well, for a shorter flowering period, for a taste that you really like, for stronger psychoactives, and the like - because these traits already exist in some percentage in the species. You encourage things by selecting candidates that have more of the traits that you're looking for and disregarding those that do not. But there is no evidence that the trait you are speaking of currently exists in nature for the very reason that you mentioned - it wouldn't survive in nature and therefore the trait wouldn't be passed on if it were to appear.

Off-topic: The evolution of humans as a species is probably a dead issue, IMO. Thank modern medicine and the desire to "fix" things that do not fit whatever the currently accepted norm is. We as a species are far more likely to change our environment than to deal with it in the way of nature. Although with us dumping more and more poisons/toxins into the air/ground/water/ourselves, I suppose it's possible that less and less healthy versions of what we are now will survive (that seems to be happening now to some extent, although breeding like rats as we do, it's hard to tell) and that sports that can happily exist on the stuff will be born and live to breed.

I'm not really feeling all that intelligent ATM, so the above might be complete BS. But it doesn't feel like it and seems to jive with what I vaguely remember from HS biology.
 

Water Bear

New Member
That was poetry.
 

The303Stoner

New Member
I think the best why to try to adapt mmj would be with minerals. Think the most you will see with light experiments is stunted or stretched pants.
 

HB Rob

New Member
Not possible without mutation / variegation AND heavy selective breeding. Regardless of spectrum each quanta of light is going to be bounced between chlorophyll B until it is a useable energy level for a chlorophyll A receptor. Even then it would take a massive influx of carotenoid pigments to visibly offset the shear amount of reflected green light from all pigments.
 

CO Jones

New Member
This is not so hard. In a tissue culture setting you can cultivate callous to the point of selecting callous that has different tissue colors.. Say in a callous you spot an area that is flaming red. That section can be removed and organogenesis intiated. I have found that variations that are possible; occur most easily within the undifferenciated state. Things like color, smell and potency can be selected from the variations in callous tissue.. Callous tissue has not given itself over to the dominant genetics of the plant that way existing mutations can crop up easier and be selected...
 

PrairiePoet

Active Member
Let me just say I almost always enjoy TS's posts. Sometimes a bit rambly, but understandable.

Evolution is not about the plants - or animals, either, for that matter - realizing something and deciding to adapt.

(Ok, there is some hope that we might be heading towards understanding enough of the gene map and - eventually - the mechanisms that cause the changes that we will one day be able to modify them directly, but we are not there yet.)
Actually today or yesterday I was reading a story on the first commercially available blue rose. While not exactly blue (more purple in color), it was done by gene manipulation. Some plants do not have the correct minerals or the ability to process them to create specific colors. So they took a gene from another plant that does have blue flowers and spliced into the roses.

I guess it is all physics, you need this metal alloy to be able to reflect this electromagnetic frequency (light wavelength), so it looks like this specific color. So based on that story, I would say you aren't going to be able to breed for colors that are not there now. Well, not without gene splicing.
 

FrankFoster

New Member
Yeah the light spectrum does not change the color of the plant. It just affects the energy uptake and transfer of energy. The plant has 2 types of receptors, one fills into the other. So a weird spectrum will just affect the way the plant uptakes light energy. Maybe the def because of the poor uptake could cause effects on color but not the healthy color of the plant.
 

FrankFoster

New Member
Its amazing to see. The plant looks like it should be dead from nute def but it's thriving and has turned purple, strains that this happens to are passed off as GDP all the time.

But I prefer a clone of the cheese with 70 degree temps, and then the sister clone only done at 55 at night all things equal.
 

Kush Killer

New Member
i was jsut reading on that this morning.. ill be doing a test run. jsut tryin to decide if it should be done in veg and continued till harvest, or jsut done in veg or jsut flower.. i have not seen or read any info pertaining to that asspect
 

Kush Killer

New Member
ive also heard that adding berrys particularly blue berrys to your soil can create purple pigment.. but also creates bugs..
 

Stoned4daze61

New Member
There are lots of "theories" out there about the MJ plant, you have to take things with a grain of salt. If by "heard" you meant reading it online, then I would not take it too serious! I've seen & read all kinds of crazy things pertaining to cannabis.

Also, I like to think that every plant has a pre-determined genetic potential. Treating the plant different ways will not cause new traits to develop, rather it will allow the plants hidden traits to surface. For instance, a purple strain, the lower temps are not the CAUSE of the change in color. The plant already had the potential to purple in it's genetics, you just had to change the environment to expose the purple trait.

I think plants could exhibit all kinds of weird traits when grown under different environmental factors, but when the focus is to provide as stress free environment as possible why would anyone want to risk playing with the environment.

I'm not too sure, but I think MJ only has receptors to absorb certain wavelengths. Which is why LED's are making a breakthrough by only using the necessary spectrum's to avoid wasting any light. I think you would have better luck experimenting with supplemental UV-B

You also said it could produce new cannabinoids. Why do you think that?

A strain is bred to have certain levels of cannabinoids, which is why you can purchase high CBD strains,etc. I could see the levels of the cannabinoids varying depending on your environmental factors, but what makes you think it will produce all new cannabinoids all together?

Same thing with the taste and smell, strains have terpene profiles that allow you to get an idea of what it will smell & taste like. If it was easy to change the terpene profiles, then why wouldn't growers intentionally change their environment to produce new terpenes?
Just like with the cannabinoids, I could see the levels of terpenes varying because of the environment but I don't think it could develop new terpenes all together. That would completely change the taste and smell of the strain.

It is more dependent on genetics. It is better to focus on giving the plant as stress free environment as possible, rather then toying with different factors trying to change the plant

No grower has ever reached the genetic potential of a strain,so basically that means none of us have a perfect environment. So rather then trying to search for different traits by altering your environment, which has potential disaster written all over it, why not try to grow the plants to the best of our ability and see what they will give you in return.

I don't understand why you would want to go about these unnecessary trials when we haven't even gotten close to growing perfect cannabis. Yes it would be neat to find hidden traits, but these trials would be near impossible to run because there are so many other factors to take into account.

Colored weed does not necessarily equal quality, actually I've found most purples to be of inferior quality with the exception of a few. Unless it is in the plants genetics, then purpling to me means that it was grown under improper environmental conditions

With all this work & effort you could be focusing on High Brix growing, which focuses on growing the plant to it's genetic potential. You can get a refractometer and it will give you a reading on your plants health. You could also use it to see if your experiments make an improvement to the plants health, or if they are detrimental.
 

Mr Messy

New Member

This is a great example of colour change. Genetics, nutes and light spectrum(time of year) all had a hand.
Nice ah
 

Mr Messy

New Member
I luv purps
 
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