Fox Farms Ocean Forest: Adding Lime

[TorturedSoul]

When using FFOF, do you add lime? If so, do you add it to the bags with perlite when you mix them, or do you do it differently (example: Vegetation in 2-gallon buckets and then transplanting into 5-gallon buckets for flowering, do you only add the lime when preparing the flowering buckets?).

I've got some lime around here somewhere. I cannot remember if it's agricultural lime or dolomite lime (there is a bit of a difference). It's not "hydrated lime" (calcium hydroxide).

I'm thinking that the pH-buffering ability of the FFOF will be adequate for vegetative in the smaller buckets, but I'm just guessing at this point.

 

[Droopy Dog]

I would add it from the git. I know FFOF adds oyster shell as a buffer and it's good stuff. They just don't add enough to see you through the entire grow.

From many *Help!!* threads, it seems to run out in the middle of flowering +-.

Either of those limes are good, although with the agricultural lime you will probably need to add some epsom salts, since it has very little Mag. No big deal. I've had to add epsom salts using dolomite as it seems the Mag is not available as quickly as the Ca. Again, no big deal.

Add it from the git, or add it to the flowering bucket mix, or try it both ways. It's all good, as long as you use it.

DD

 

[N.W.Green]

Dolomite lime along with, Greensand, oystershells, granular anzomite along with most other mineral elements are best to apply during veg, and can be applied later aswell. but the reason why i say use them in veg is because it takes these elements a LONG time to break down in your soil and become readily available, also just another thing if your using organics dolomite lime is fine, but you will have to get your magnesium from somewhere else because epson salts will kill your micro life and ACTUALLY set you back in an organic scene.

Also just on another note, FFOF comes at a pH of about 7.3 out of the bag(thats where fox farm likes it) if you add dolomite lime it will bring your PH down to a better spot to start and you wont see as much lag in your plants when you transplant because they wont have to acclimitize to it as much.

 

[N.W.Green]

So you feeling better TS? havn't seen you in a long time mane

 

[TorturedSoul]

From many *Help!!* threads, it seems to run out in the middle of flowering +-.

That's what I've been reading. In fact, I read enough that I almost didn't post my query. But I wondered if the composition/formulation of the FFOF had changed over time - I've read that they now "produce" it in two different locations?

I would add it from the git. I know FFOF adds oyster shell as a buffer and it's good stuff. They just don't add enough to see you through the entire grow.

Either of those limes are good, although with the agricultural lime you will probably need to add some epsom salts, since it has very little Mag. No big deal. I've had to add epsom salts using dolomite as it seems the Mag is not available as quickly as the Ca. Again, no big deal.

Been a while since I messed with soil (outside of the "veggie" garden). My water has enough Ca in it that I keep Epsom salt on hand.

Add it from the git, or add it to the flowering bucket mix, or try it both ways.

That's probably what I'll do, lol. Only thing is, I've got three strains to play with (AK48, Snow White, and Royal Flush) and probably won't be able to do an apples/apples comparison.

Dolomite lime along with, Greensand, oystershells, granular anzomite along with most other mineral elements are best to apply during veg, and can be applied later aswell. but the reason why i say use them in veg is because it takes these elements a LONG time to break down in your soil and become readily available, also just another thing if your using organics dolomite lime is fine, but you will have to get your magnesium from somewhere else because epson salts will kill your micro life and ACTUALLY set you back in an organic scene.

I've got lime - which is pelletized, looks like an 8 line(?) per inch screen was used, their BBs, but I run it through a coffee grinder if I want it to work faster - in my garden shed. Also nursery-sized bags of perlite & vermiculite, bone meal, blood meal, Epsom salt, a little bit of charcoal, a pound or two of 5-10-10, 12-12-12, and one other granulated garden fertilizer that I got several years ago at the local hardware store for ~15 cents/pound (had some 34% ammonium nitrate, lol, but it drew water). Had one of those Sunleaves House of Guano kit boxes with the three kinds of bat guano and seabird guano for a few years but ended up giving it away because I never opened it and a couple bags of worm castings which I decided I'd never use (for cannabis) and put in my vegetable garden last year. Also a couple bottles of Neptune's Forest OMRI-listed stuff, one fish and one seaweed which might still be good (they've been opened). Couple of partial jugs and a small bag of OMRI-listed stuff from Rich Earth that I've thought about using for cannabis to see if they made any significant difference since I had never heard of the stuff before stumbling on their website one night after mistakenly typing "rich earth" into a Google searchbox instead of "rare earth." The stuff in the jugs is absolutely the worst smell I've ever smelled in my life - and I've taken things to the town dump in the summer AND I once had to detail a car in which the (former) owner had rolled the windows up in July, killed himself, and the car wasn't found until August, lofl. Says right on the label, "Safe for pets" and I thought, "Yeah, because you won't manage to force it down their throats while their still breathing haha." Maybe I'll try it this year. Maybe I'll just spread it all out on the vegetable garden.

Not really into the whole "organic" thing so much. Which kind of means that I and my soil could well be at cross-purposes? I kind of bought the FFOF on a whim. I'm used to GH products, growing in "water," adding enough H2O2 to KILL root-zone life systems, etc.

Also just on another note, FFOF comes at a pH of about 7.3 out of the bag(thats where fox farm likes it) if you add dolomite lime it will bring your PH down to a better spot to start and you wont see as much lag in your plants when you transplant because they wont have to acclimitize to it as much.

I was considering setting up a couple of 2-gallon buckets with just FFOF and perlite but going ahead and adding lime to the rest of the bag now so that it will have time to "percolate."

I should make my mind up soon one way or the other. Got three plants growing in 18oz. red plastic Solo cups. I once kept a plant alive for a year in a small foam cup of perlite/vermiculite even though I only watered it once in a blue moon and might have only fed it three or four times - but the poor plant must have figuratively cried herself to sleep each night, lol; it was more of an experiment to see if I could keep it alive after a friend complained that he lost a strain because he "had nowhere to keep it." These particular plants, I'd like to treat <COUGH> somewhat better.

So you feeling better TS? havn't seen you in a long time mane

I'm like herpes, lol - I pop up from time to time.

Yeah, I'm feeling... better. Life is a little bit different now, but it appears that it'll be longer for it assuming the GF or one of her GFs neither get me killed nor shorten my lifespan.

How's that old joke go? Guy has a dream where he hears a voice that says, "I could change your life so that you'll live forever - but you wouldn't like it." I plan on sticking around for a while. At least long enough that Momma doesn't have to bury another son.

 

[Droopy Dog]

Organic or no, adding lime to a peat based mix is necessary and FFOF is a peat based mix.

I've been making my own peat based mix for close to 40 years, most of them using Jack's (Peters), fertilizer. Never heard of lime and (I thought), never used it and never had problems.

This was in SoFl. We moved 4 years ago and BAM, ran right into problems with my old mix and learned real quick about lime. LOL Back in Fl, I always used to add a shovel or 2 of "screenings" to my mix. This was from the first screen for aggregate at a concrete plant and was like very coarse sand. We would get a dumptruck load every few years ($25), to spread on the lawn.

I used to add it just to give a little weight to my mix. Doing some backwards research, since it was the only thing different from the no problem SoFl mix, I found out that the screenings were crushed oolitic limestone. I was adding lime all along and never realized it.

Oh, BTW, on the pellets. They are more than likely powdered lime, shaped into pellets with a dissolving binder. Some one had mentioned this in another thread, so I checked it out with mine. They were fully 'melted' in 48 hrs. More than likely sooner, but I forgot about them the next day and didn't check till the day after that. I thought they were a coarser grind and I used them in the garden. Good to know though, because the pellets are way easier to work with than the powder.

DD

 

[N.W.Green]

Good deal man glad to hear.

and since you have access to FFOF im gonna guess you can get "Happy Frog" its made by fox farms aswell, what i like to do is mix equal amounts of the two together then i mix in perlite to taste, i have found that this works better than just FFOF with perlite(Happy frog has some stuff that the FFOF doesnt have) also since your willing to do it some dont like to i say lime it up too, just make sure you dont over do it.

Also a little story behind FFOF it goes through changes over time for sure, i have heard a lot of people say that they wouldn't even use it because long ago you use to find chicken wire nails screws all sorts of nasty things in it, then it got better again, i recently got a bad batch that the PH was all fucked up on it felt like sand between your fingers, but that is my only bad experiance.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I've been making my own peat based mix for close to 40 years, most of them using Jack's (Peters), fertilizer. Never heard of lime and (I thought), never used it and never had problems.

I have in the past done something like that, mixing peat, perlite, vermiculite and whatever else I had on hand modified by whatever buzz I had in head. But it's been a long while and my mixes were likely never the same and rarely even close to each other (like Mom's cooking used to be back in the day).

But it was a long time ago and I didn't even make records at the time let alone keep them.

Oh, BTW, on the pellets. They are more than likely powdered lime, shaped into pellets with a dissolving binder. Some one had mentioned this in another thread, so I checked it out with mine. They were fully 'melted' in 48 hrs. More than likely sooner, but I forgot about them the next day and didn't check till the day after that. I thought they were a coarser grind and I used them in the garden. Good to know though, because the pellets are way easier to work with than the powder.

DD

Interesting. Running pellets through the coffee grinder seems to be "a little" harder on the thing than running beans through it, lol.

Was this just putting them into water? If so, I wonder how that would compare with the wet/dry cycling of the average container of soil?

Also - I'm feeling kind of stupid today (it was a REALLY good night) - that leads me to wonder... If the stuff quickly dissolves, what is its long-term usefulness? If it dissolves, does it bind to the soil then and there - and, if so, how does it continue to provide a buffering action afterwards on new "intrusions" (feedings) that might be iffy on pH? And, if not, what keeps it from being washed out the bottom of the pots after a good flush (or heavy rain? But here the rain is acidic enough to eat paint, lol, so that case would probably be moot )?

I'll have to think on this after both brain cells have recovered from their coma.

and since you have access to FFOF

Hydro store is over an hour away (boondocks) and the guy was grumbling that he probably wouldn't be there in a couple months because he was about to go under. I got the FFOF on a whim since I figured I might never see it again.

Also a little story behind FFOF it goes through changes over time for sure, i have heard a lot of people say that they wouldn't even use it because long ago you use to find chicken wire nails screws all sorts of nasty things in it, then it got better again, i recently got a bad batch that the PH was all fucked up on it felt like sand between your fingers, but that is my only bad experiance.

Anything that is alive - or has living components - probably changes over time.

I've not read here about that but I have read a thread or two about the stuff arriving with a thriving insect population. I thought about sterilizing the stuff but then thought, "No, maybe it'll have something nasty enough to eat a few thousand of those %@^*ing spider mite borg that seem to have moved in and written home to invite the rest of their families to join them, lol. If they get worse I'll probably investigate more of the various natural things to help keep them in check - or else hit the tab on a fleabomb, toss it in, close the door, and run and then repeat in three or four days (twice).

Or maybe not. Did that years ago when I moved here and didn't know that whatever the heck there was growing in the country where I used to live that allowed the cats to run in and out all day every day and not bring one flea inside apparently wasn't something that grew nearby and I ended up with a RPitA flea infestation and I somehow managed to lock one cat up in the house & it acted like it was badly hung over for a couple of days. Then again, I was highly annoyed at the time and put one in every room/hallway, two in the attic, four in the basement, and one on the front porch as I split (hey, I ended up with an extra and what good is ONE flea bomb when your house has more than one room, lol?).

Rambling again (still). Feelin' way too froggy for posting on the 'net.

 

[N.W.Green]

they are hard to catch but if you spend some time outdoors i bet you see them, go get as many jumping spiders as you can and put them in the garden area, they love other bugs and dont build webs. and they are more worried about getting away than biting ive never been bitten by them.

 

[Cannabliss89]

I plan on transferring from 1 gallon to 9 gallon pots soon. I first used FFOF mixed with perlite. When transplanting I'm going to use the rest of the FFOF mixed with Happy Frog and Perlite, I have been thinking about adding dolomite lime as well. How much dolomite lime would I use in a 9 gallon pot? Or what should the ratio of soil to lime be? I don't wanna over do it. I just started feeding my plants (GO box) without adjusting the PH, so I'm feeding them a low ph solution and letting the soil buffer it. I think adding lime would help keep my soil at a good PH, I'm a little worried about my PH getting outa wack.

Edit: I just realized I was looking at a thread from 4 years ago lol, but regardless, my question still stands, any help would be appreciated.

 

[WelshFarmer]

I plan on transferring from 1 gallon to 9 gallon pots soon. I first used FFOF mixed with perlite. When transplanting I'm going to use the rest of the FFOF mixed with Happy Frog and Perlite, I have been thinking about adding dolomite lime as well. How much dolomite lime would I use in a 9 gallon pot? Or what should the ratio of soil to lime be? I don't wanna over do it. I just started feeding my plants (GO box) without adjusting the PH, so I'm feeding them a low ph solution and letting the soil buffer it. I think adding lime would help keep my soil at a good PH, I'm a little worried about my PH getting outa wack.

Edit: I just realized I was looking at a thread from 4 years ago lol, but regardless, my question still stands, any help would be appreciated.

1 tablespoon per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot. If you want a faster release lime that flushes out in a few weeks, you can go hydrated lime over dolomite.