G'day! Hoping someone could help me out with height issues?

[donkeyjunk]

G’day fellow enthusiasts , I’m having problems getting my girls to grow any higher than about 0.5 metres (2 foot).
As far as I can figure I have everything dialled in just right but just can’t get my ladies to a height where I can look them in the eye.
i’ll run through my specs and adjustments to date below, and maybe one of you green thumbs could possibly point me in the right direction.
1- I’m using the new generation of high end LEDS - the ones out of Texas ( with dimmers)
2- I only recently bought the mq-620 light meter to calculate the DLI - but still haven’t wrapped my head around that properly
#any help here would be greatly appreciated
3- I’ve also recently switched from Super Soil to RDWC — seeing amazing results here although still no proper height
4- checking my pH , EC and ppm daily ( and watching the ppm continuously drop as the girls suck up all the goodness)
* the SuperSoil has a pH of 6.5, and i'm watering once a day ( so the soil dries out just enough for the roots to get their oxygen fix) using top shelf organic nutrients. ** i change the RDWC reservoir every week - flushing for 12 hours , then setting pH at 5.5 and letting it gradually rise up to 6.5 pH , so my ladies can tap into all different nutrients that are unlocked at different pH's.
5- as well as running air stones in each pot in the RDWC , I’m also running a couple of O2grow Systems so my water is super oxygen saturated
6- running my reservoir chillers at 21C (70F)
7- got my veg at 25-28 degrees C (77 - 82F) and humidity at 70, and CO2 at 800 ppm
8- got my flower at 22-25 degrees C ( 71 -77F) and humidity at 55, and CO2 at 1400 ppm
9- in both rooms I’m running a 10 - 15 degrees C temp differential between night and day
10- plenty of airflow
11- getting fantastic results tipping/topping, lollypopping and super cropping ( I know this will slowdown vertical growth, but not to the extent I’m seeing). With both systems every plant is super healthy, lush and vibrant, not one sick leaf on either. Zero indicators of imbalances
12- and also marginal vertical growth after flicking to 12/12 (when i should be seeing some proper growth)
13- have tried dimming the LED’s and/or raising them too high hoping for a bit of stretch to no avail
14- its not the genetics as I gave cuttings to a mate and he got them to 1.8 metres ( 6 foot) under HPS
15- Have seen guys on YouTube doing exactly what I’m doing ( same lights, same systems) but getting proper height.
16- im having my height issues for both types of systems ( using Organic SuperSoil and sterile RDWC)
17- im running 2 different genetics, both 8 week strains. the SuperSoil 12 x 20L (5.2 gallons) and the RDWC 10 x 25L (6.5 gallons)
- each under 2 of the 645W LED's and getting 1589g (3.5lb),
but these lights are rated (* IF YOU HAVE EVERY FACTOR DIALLED IN PERFECTLY) at 2.1g per Watt. Which would be 2709g ( 5.96 lb).

So im harvesting just over half of whats is possible with the technology that im running, and i know that when i crack my height problem i'll be a lot closer to the goal.

so fellas and gals, what am I missing??

if you know or have even a remote idea, please hit me back, I know the answer is out there somewhere.

cheers

donkeyjunk

 

[JimJonesJr]

You seemed to have covered all the bases. Sorry to hear your having issues mate. I'm going to start by saying I dunno crap/shit/nil about LEDs but if your environment is dialed in and your buddy with the hps and your clone is getting better results I'd have to look at the light source. I'm an old hps/MH guy. Hopefully, some of these led guys will jump in and help. And by the way...welcome to the site. Great community here.

 

[donkeyjunk]

cheers jim.
the LED'S, were the conclusion i arrived at as well, until i saw a youtube channel, - KillingCancer in CO.
the dude is running the same system, and the same lights ( although the lights he's using are the previous generation, i have the latest iteration of LED from the same company. although ive been informed by 420 FORUM Oversight that i cant actually name the brand. But i did my homework, pretty much all of the commercial grows are using this brand.
any other ideas?
anyone?

 

[Buds Buddy]

I know they say you can't mention un-sponsored lights. I was warned also. But I never had them say anything when I posted pics of my grow with the lights in the pic. I think it's OK as long as you are not trying to promote the light you're using so other's look elsewhere instead of to our sponsors. Our sponsors keep this site alive so we need to buy from them when we can.

 

[Buds Buddy]

You could also say something like ... my light is the equivalent to the Mars Hydro TSW 3000 for instance. Kind of need the size of your grow area vs. the size & power of your light to determine if that's why the plants are small.

 

[donkeyjunk]

Can’t really post pics. It’s still illegal here. And not sure who the sponsors are but I’m pretty sure they would be in the USA, what with it still being a convictable hobby/ pasttime / job here and doesn’t look to be changing anytime soon. I get that the administrators have to deal with dodgy promoters trying to side step having to pay advertising costs, but when I named my lights and my thread was deleted and I was notified of the guidelines, my thread was about having problems with the lights. Had a wee giggle to myself.
anyhoo I think I have narrowed my problem down to where the dimmers are dialled to (I,m hoping at least).
So if there’s anyone out there that can speak to that, hit me back.
cheers
donkeyjunk
ps. Loving the forum.

 

[donkeyjunk]

It’s the company that’s in texas, that was using the Osram diodes ( am I allowed the say that?) and doing so well that Osram bought them out.

 

[013]

Watering supersoil once a day.... there is no way for soil to dry out. This is starving the roots of oxygen. Soil grows should be allowed to dry out between watering sessions, it makes the tiny root hairs to grow as they search for moisture.

Please read this.... Emilya - How to Water a potted plant.

 

[donkeyjunk]

cheers for the reply,
ive got that angle covered too.
i was using air pots but with the amount of air i am pushing around the room, it was making the humidity way too high, so im back to regular pots but have 2 fans directly above the pots, the soil dries out quite nicely, but not to the extremes that the air pots were doing.
any other ideas?

 

[Stoned Ape]

Hey donkey junk. Never heard of o2 grow system. What is that. I think I come from the same place as you.

 

[VetSmoke85]

Wondering if it's the same place as me too. Does seem odd that you have to water 20L pots daily. I'm pretty inexperienced but my thought would be that if the bottom half of the pots are staying too wet the roots won't get right down there and that will mirror on the surface. How do you check that they're dry? Hope you get it figured out.

 

[VetSmoke85]

Actually I think I've just figured out where you're from judging by the way you say hello

 

[Rosti]

Genetics, lighting, and veg time are probably the biggest factors in size of plants. Like everyone else said it seems like you got all the bases covered. So my only question is how long are you leaving your plants in the vegetative stage?

 

[donkeyjunk]

Hey donkey junk. Never heard of o2 grow system. What is that. I think I come from the same place as you.

Hey stoned monkey. So you live in a draconian police state too, or the same one.?
its funny how when you think of police out of control the good old USA comes to mind, but when you actually put the guns aside, they really are actually there to protect and serve!!! Once it’s been established that you are not a threat, the American cops are friendly and ( a bit of a generalisation) genuine helpful and chilled out public servants. Where as here, they are glorified revenue collectors, with a bad attitude and so far out of line with all the new powers they have been backhanded by corrupt politicians to gradually erode our civil liberties, and hit you up with a few hundred dollar fine Whilst treating you like second class citizen/ criminal.
the police here are allowed to enter your home uninvited (WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT)!!! -because they suspected there were drugs on the property.- next it’ll be because they suspected you might break the law sometime in the future. I know the USA is a scary place with all their guns, ( I was in Ohio when the “plandemic” hit, - went to walmart to get some bulk water, and the queue next to the water - food- alcohol- was the longest queue assault RIFFLES.
BUT even though they are a bit too trigger happy, there is no way in hell, they’d let their government slide in backdoor legislation to give the police the gestapo like powers we’ve been hit With.

ohhh, so does that answer your question?
sorry someone pushed my wrong button!,,
———O2 grow
absolutely fantastic bit of technology.
## it’s a titanium mesh (connected to a control box) that you put in your reservoir and runs electrical current through it. ( I don’t know if the technical term is electrolysis or hydrolysis.
# so what it does it split the oxygen molecules from the hydrogen molecules, the hydrogen floats to the surface and dissipates in the atmosphere whereas the oxygen, supersaturates the water/nutrients in super micronised bubbles- whereby turbocharging the oxygen and nutrients uptake of the roots. It actually reaches maximum oxygen saturation of your reservoir in an hour or so(and your water looks like milk)
I LOVE TO SCIENCE THE FUK OUT OF MY GROWS, I am a firm believer of buying the most technologically advanced equipment, no matter the cost ( your initial outlay is much more expensive, but if you have everything dialled in correct- and scientifically callibrated equipment does just that. Recording every input, recording and assessing and calibrating every response. Therefor the next run is even tighter ( with fewer inputs and higher yields] or the next experimental idea worthy of trying can run against your most dialled in control group.
It the thing MOST people don’t get, is that buying the top of the range equipment, scares a lot of people,because they say they can’t afford it, but it’s more like they can’t justify it, because they aren’t willing to put the work in. (But even if they literally can’t afford it, there’s no reason why they cant boot strap
i love the science behind it, doesnt matter what system you are running, obviously some systems will see better Results than others.
O2 grow claim 15-20% bigger yields.
i bought a small unit which was too small for my system but enough to run a couple of experiments just to make sure it wasn’t snake oil. So now I’m waiting on a big unit.
im getting excited, I think it may be the last bit of the puzzle, to hit the 2.1 grams per Watt.
which is what my top of the range LED lights are rated for,
- ive got 6 x(645W); split up into 3 pairs of LEDs and 2 sit perfectly above a 1200x2400mm tray
- I was having height issues but an apogee MQ-620, ( which reads IR nanometers) therefore correcting my DLI, Sorted that for me. Now my height pretty much stays lockstep with the 25-50 micro moles per square meter per second, that I increase my lights by everyday.
- one tray under the two 645W, for my small room ( and my turbo cloned) and then 2 trays each with 2x 645W in my big room.
Altogether 4 runs , each four weeks apart (each cycle either 10 or 12 plants).
so every 4 weeks , I have even consistently coming in under that all illusive 2.1 gr/p/W.
i think the $900US O2 grow, will help me reach my target of 2709grams or 5.95 lB every 4 weeks.
But that’s using state of the art everything, research and religious measurement reading and recording.
———although I’m really getting sick of the smell of pot pouri , my grandma likes it and all her friends but there’s got to be some other flowers I can grow that will make my grandma just as happy and is just at home in handmade wooden bowl on the lounge room table!?
thoughts....
anyone.....

 

[TorturedSoul]

I’m having problems getting my girls to grow any higher than about 0.5 metres (2 foot).

Grow sativas, lol.

i change the RDWC reservoir every week - flushing for 12 hours , then

Why?

7- got my veg at 25-28 degrees C (77 - 82F) and humidity at 70, and CO2 at 800 ppm
8- got my flower at 22-25 degrees C ( 71 -77F) and humidity at 55, and CO2 at 1400 ppm

High levels of CO₂ are wasted at relatively low temperatures. It's a three-way relationship between CO₂, temperature, and amount of light-energy. At 1,400 PPM, I'd not allow my lights-on flowering temperatures drop below 85F (and wouldn't be concerned if they went up another five to seven degrees (F)). And would want LOTS of intense light, too, of course.

But that's not your problem. From what you've posted, my guess is that your problem is related to the overall spectral output of your lighting. Be me, I'd try to adjust that so that you end up with a color temperature somewhat below 3,000K - say, 2,700K.

1.8 metres ( 6 foot) under HPS

.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Hey stoned monkey. So you live in a draconian police state too, or the same one.?
its funny how when you think of police out of control the good old USA comes to mind, but when you actually put the guns aside, they really are actually there to protect and serve!!! Once it’s been established that you are not a threat, the American cops are friendly and ( a bit of a generalisation) genuine helpful and chilled out public servants. Where as here, they are glorified revenue collectors, with a bad attitude and so far out of line with all the new powers they have been backhanded by corrupt politicians to gradually erode our civil liberties, and hit you up with a few hundred dollar fine Whilst treating you like second class citizen/ criminal.
the police here are allowed to enter your home uninvited (WITHOUT A SEARCH WARRANT)!!! -because they suspected there were drugs on the property.- next it’ll be because they suspected you might break the law sometime in the future. I know the USA is a scary place with all their guns, ( I was in Ohio when the “plandemic” hit, - went to walmart to get some bulk water, and the queue next to the water - food- alcohol- was the longest queue assault RIFFLES.
BUT even though they are a bit too trigger happy, there is no way in hell, they’d let their government slide in backdoor legislation to give the police the gestapo like powers we’ve been hit With.

ohhh, so does that answer your question?
sorry someone pushed my wrong button!,,
———O2 grow
absolutely fantastic bit of technology.
## it’s a titanium mesh (connected to a control box) that you put in your reservoir and runs electrical current through it. ( I don’t know if the technical term is electrolysis or hydrolysis.
# so what it does it split the oxygen molecules from the hydrogen molecules, the hydrogen floats to the surface and dissipates in the atmosphere whereas the oxygen, supersaturates the water/nutrients in super micronised bubbles- whereby turbocharging the oxygen and nutrients uptake of the roots. It actually reaches maximum oxygen saturation of your reservoir in an hour or so(and your water looks like milk)
I LOVE TO SCIENCE THE FUK OUT OF MY GROWS, I am a firm believer of buying the most technologically advanced equipment, no matter the cost ( your initial outlay is much more expensive, but if you have everything dialled in correct- and scientifically callibrated equipment does just that. Recording every input, recording and assessing and calibrating every response. Therefor the next run is even tighter ( with fewer inputs and higher yields] or the next experimental idea worthy of trying can run against your most dialled in control group.
It the thing MOST people don’t get, is that buying the top of the range equipment, scares a lot of people,because they say they can’t afford it, but it’s more like they can’t justify it, because they aren’t willing to put the work in. (But even if they literally can’t afford it, there’s no reason why they cant boot strap
i love the science behind it, doesnt matter what system you are running, obviously some systems will see better Results than others.
O2 grow claim 15-20% bigger yields.
i bought a small unit which was too small for my system but enough to run a couple of experiments just to make sure it wasn’t snake oil. So now I’m waiting on a big unit.
im getting excited, I think it may be the last bit of the puzzle, to hit the 2.1 grams per Watt.
which is what my top of the range LED lights are rated for,
- ive got 6 x(645W); split up into 3 pairs of LEDs and 2 sit perfectly above a 1200x2400mm tray
- I was having height issues but an apogee MQ-620, ( which reads IR nanometers) therefore correcting my DLI, Sorted that for me. Now my height pretty much stays lockstep with the 25-50 micro moles per square meter per second, that I increase my lights by everyday.
- one tray under the two 645W, for my small room ( and my turbo cloned) and then 2 trays each with 2x 645W in my big room.
Altogether 4 runs , each four weeks apart (each cycle either 10 or 12 plants).
so every 4 weeks , I have even consistently coming in under that all illusive 2.1 gr/p/W.
i think the $900US O2 grow, will help me reach my target of 2709grams or 5.95 lB every 4 weeks.
But that’s using state of the art everything, research and religious measurement reading and recording.
———although I’m really getting sick of the smell of pot pouri , my grandma likes it and all her friends but there’s got to be some other flowers I can grow that will make my grandma just as happy and is just at home in handmade wooden bowl on the lounge room table!?
thoughts....
anyone.....

I have seen some nice flowers on this very site that your grandma might like.

 

[Frigault's Genetics]

Probably to late to answer now. But i would guess plant shock.. i have a olant that has not grow past its 4rth set of leaf cause my cat drooped it has a seedling disturbing the roouts. Its stopped growing at week 3 the plant is 2 months hold i kept it under a masson jar dome for the past month when i saw it was doing real bad and i treat it like a clone. Because uts a great genetic and i wany to explorebits pottential. Stunting can happen at anyone for numbers of reason and kill it if not babied just one drop of over watering can cause this. Hydrogen peroxyde in water can help restore oxygen to the roots and the leafs. Its a really good nurseing tool in the darkest hours. Peroxyde can revive a dying plant or wake it up.

 

[donkeyjunk]

Cheers I worked it out. My VPD was way off. Since I’ve corrected their transpiration My girls have shot up like rockets.
but I’ve recently had a root rot problem and yes hydrogen peroxide is a awesome tool.

 

[Frigault's Genetics]

Good to hear they bounce back