Germinated Seed: Up or Down?

[diabolito]

Seems like a simple question but I see two opposite answers out there.

Tap Root Down:

Tap Root Up:

Which do you think is the right answer? Appreciate the help.

 

[Emilya Green]

Root up... j-roots are very common when it is done incorrectly.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Here’s one concurrence - root tip up - hinge down.

 

[Sueet]

>.> I've always just dropped a seed into the dirt, it never occurred to me there was a difference. Thanks guys.

 

[diabolito]

So 2 for root up so far (emilya & FelipeBlu), which seems anti-intuitive, but makes sense if the tap root always wants to curl opposite to the direction it comes out rather than with gravity. So, root up so it curves down, away from the surface.

Emilya, is that what you mean with the j-root? If it comes out the bottom, it curls up and then after more growing, gravity kicks in and it needs to turn around again?

I hear ya Sueet, I was surprised to come across this dilemma. Likely nature makes it, so a strong seed will eventually find the way no matter what (nature's drive is why I can get some good grows despite the many mistakes I make).

It's interesting though that even for this relatively small question there are conflicting answer on the internet and at seed seller's websites.

That's why I value everyone 's real experience and input here. Some science with a lot of actual experience.

For fun, there must be some root-down people out there willing to make the case. I know I have always thought to put it root down as that seems to point it in the way you want it to grow.

 

[Emilya Green]

Emilya, is that what you mean with the j-root? If it comes out the bottom, it curls up and then after more growing, gravity kicks in and it needs to turn around again?

exactly, and it can really stunt or even kill a young seedling. I have one in my current garden that is dying.

 

[diabolito]

Thanks Emilya. Appreciate the info.

I think I just read a recent grow journal of yours, as I was catching up on some. You were growing something like 12 plants of the same strain. I learnt a lot from that. Thanks for doing such a thorough and enjoyable journal.

I haven't done one but I've just started some new seedlings and might try out a journal here.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks Emilya. Appreciate the info.

I think I just read a recent grow journal of yours, as I was catching up on some. You were growing something like 12 plants of the same strain. I learnt a lot from that. Thanks for doing such a thorough and enjoyable journal.

I haven't done one but I've just started some new seedlings and might try out a journal here.

We would love to see it @diabolito and welcome to the forum!
Send me a tag when you get it going and I will be sure to follow along!

 

[bluter]

above is correct with caveat ..

sometimes depends on whether seed is sprouted direct in media or pre-germinated then transferred.
sorry to muddy the waters.

 

[FelipeBlu]

And some media - like perlite - require a slightly deeper position in order to scrape off the hull and avoid the helmet head.

 

[diabolito]

bluter, no apology needed. Good, healthy discussion (and even, "oh no," disagreement) is good for working out ideas as long as everyone's respectful (as I find the people here to be)

Are you saying if the seed goes straight into the media it's better root down? Or just that it doesn't matter as much.

I usually pre-germinate, but if I didn't and didn't have that tap root out already, I definitely would have a hard time figuring out which way is up on the seed, although I know there is a difference.

 

[Emilya Green]

One of those graphics posted above is hard to understand and has confused the growing world for years, because it refers to the pointy end as the end that the roots pop out of. Actually, looking at a seed, it is just the opposite. There is a pointy end and a flatter end with an oval, and that oval end is where the roots emerge. Seeds are aerodynamically made so that they tend to fall pointy end down, whether it is dropping through the air or down into a hole, the pointy end tends to go first, and not so amazingly because it is mother nature we are talking about here, that is the correct way to orient so that the roots come out at the top

 

[diabolito]

That make a lot of sense emilya.

That solves the issue I was having in that it seemed anti-intuitive to me, to plant root up.

I think I am convinced and will be planting my seeds root up from now on.

(Of course if it fails I will immediately fall back to my proven method of chanting and turning around 3 times in a clockwise direction and only planting odd number of seeds, to guarantee sprouting )

Thanks for all the help everyone. Look forward to reading and responding to posts with you all and learning a lot.

 

[bobrown14]

Tap root down...
Gravitropism - for roots
Phototropism - for shoots

 

[FelipeBlu]

One of those graphics posted above is hard to understand and has confused the growing world for years, because it refers to the pointy end as the end that the roots pop out of. Actually, looking at a seed, it is just the opposite. There is a pointy end and a flatter end with an oval, and that oval end is where the roots emerge. Seeds are aerodynamically made so that they tend to fall pointy end down, whether it is dropping through the air or down into a hole, the pointy end tends to go first, and not so amazingly because it is mother nature we are talking about here, that is the correct way to orient so that the roots come out at the top

My experience is just the opposite - the radicle emerges from the pointed end, which splits open. The flatter/oval end is the hinge.

This is why you position the unopened seed with the pointed end up - as shown in the second graphic in the above post.

 

[Emilya Green]

Enjoy your j-roots guys. Let us know after you have had 3 or 4 that you have changed your mind, and now see the value of driving that seed husk through a turn in the soil before coming up to the top. Pointy end down, roots up... every time... and since I learned that I rarely have a problem.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Hi Emilya,

Maybe I live in a different universe - the photos I posted above showing the radicle emerging from the pointed end come from that universe.

Could you please post a photo that clearly shows the flat end splitting and the radicle emerging from that end?

 

[sneekymofo]

I’m with Emilya on this one. Roots up if they are short. I’m not going to weigh in on the ‘pointy side’ debate, because sometimes I can’t tell unless there is a tap root. But I had some funky roots with my latest and it made me change my normal orientation and I ‘almost’ regretted it. One of the girls almost didn’t make it out of her rockwool tomb lol

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi Emilya,

Maybe I live in a different universe - the photos I posted above showing the radicle emerging from the pointed end come from that universe.

Could you please post a photo that clearly shows the flat end splitting and the radicle emerging from that end?

Same universe, I had my physics mixed up and I got confused. As the seed drops through the air, it doesnt travel like a bullet, pointy end first... that pointy end tends to be at the top with the oval side down, much like a space capsule returning through the atmosphere. Pointy end up, where the roots come out. Oval side down. Roots up... My apologies FelipeBlu... you were right.

 

[FelipeBlu]

Aerodynamics like a bomb

Enjoy the rest of your day!