Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 2017

[Blazinjones]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

The res temp is actually in the lower part of mid-range, which should be fine for flowering, even ideal. High res temps are where the real problems are for most growers.

As for not ripping off the leaves, I hope to be rewarded for my work by having the lower buds grow larger, increasing my yield.

Cheers from the darkside

Ok yea i will be Journaling it since I got another sponser i will be doing it in the journal once I set the new journal up tht is lol. But yea i had a question about res temps what is an ideal range to be in should I worry about it getting to cold?

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Ok yea i will be Journaling it since I got another sponser i will be doing it in the journal once I set the new journal up tht is lol. But yea i had a question about res temps what is an ideal range to be in should I worry about it getting to cold?

What I found before, working with standard strains, is that 45-80 is the realistic limits for average temps. Going briefly outside this range, while not recommended, is survivable. Better to stay 5 deg either end (50-75). This is my first auto, but it appears to be similar. They may have slightly lower range, but i haven't proven it yet.

Indicas can handle the cooler end better, while Sativas can handle the higher end better. Hybrids have to be estimated based on their mix, which is why I suspect the autos (with Ruderalis in the mix) may enable slightly more cold tolerance.

Keep in mind that warmer water also has less dissolved oxygen. If your water temp will be in the upper range, increase your airflow. This took me a while to figure out years ago.

I hope this helps.

Back to the darkside

 

[greatwolf]

Day 56 - New Photos and More

The last few days have been very difficult for me with the new storm coming in a couple of days; having a titanium barometer in my back that is more accurate than local forecasters or NWS sucks. So I decided to take another sample this morning from the Blueberry in an effort to get a bit more sleep at night over the next few days. But I am going to split that out in a separate post, since it also includes an experimental drying technique.

Fed the girls this morning; they drank a gallon of water in about 48 hours, very thirsty. Current stats and photos:
pH — 6.0
TDS — 492
Water Temp — 54 (after feeding)
Tent Temp — 62.8 (median)
Tent RH — 43% (median)
Blueberry height — 35.75"
Tangerine Dream height — 35.75"

Aerogarden Day 56

Blueberry Day 56

Tangerine Dream Day 56

Blueberry Top Day 56

Tangerine Dream Top Day 56

Cheers from the darkside

 

[Blazinjones]

Re: Day 56 - New Photos and More

The last few days have been very difficult for me with the new storm coming in a couple of days; having a titanium barometer in my back that is more accurate than local forecasters or NWS sucks. So I decided to take another sample this morning from the Blueberry in an effort to get a bit more sleep at night over the next few days. But I am going to split that out in a separate post, since it also includes an experimental drying technique.

Fed the girls this morning; they drank a gallon of water in about 48 hours, very thirsty. Current stats and photos:
pH — 6.0
TDS — 492
Water Temp — 54 (after feeding)
Tent Temp — 62.8 (median)
Tent RH — 43% (median)
Blueberry height — 35.75"
Tangerine Dream height — 35.75"

Aerogarden Day 56

Blueberry Day 56

Tangerine Dream Day 56

Blueberry Top Day 56

Tangerine Dream Top Day 56

Cheers from the darkside

Man those buds are lookn pretty good. What did breeder say for time till harvest? I always take that with a grain of salt tho lol if it says 7 to 8 weeks i usually end up 8 to 9 lol but thts with my photos Ive only done a few autos b4 but since I won the vaults Christmas promo ill have a ton of auto beans to try my new dwc bucket with i keep watchn urs and gettn very excited lol it yea man great job

 

[greatwolf]

Drying Experiment #1

First, a shot of the bud the volunteered for today's sacrifice of need/experiment:

Weight before trim:

Weight after trim:

This bud is comparable to the one that was sampled last Monday, just a week later. Oh, and about 70% larger (after trim, which is what really counts, right?).

As I explained above, I decided to take a sample due to pain and lack of sleep. I also decided to try one of my drying experiments that I'd hoped for fairly rapid dehydration without much degradation. I do have a food dehydrator that I can use to dry buds but am concerned about extended heat and fan blowing across the buds. I have another experiment planned that is more passive than this one, but have not yet printed the 3D parts so could not test today.

Today's test was more active; as I was already in pain it seemed like I had little to lose. It's based on the concept of freeze drying. Few of us have a freeze dryer at home. But some of us have a vacuum sealer. And some of those have the attachment for vacuum sealing mason jars. I do, and decided to try it. My thought is that if this works than by not exposing the buds to high temps or constant fans, most of the chemicals we want would be preserved.

My Theory:

Although I cannot flash freeze, the freezer will freeze the buds sufficiently for our purposes. From what I remember, the trichromes contain very little, if any, water, so are in little danger of rupturing. The plant cell walls, on the other hand, will rupture and expose the water molecules, making evaporation easier. Surrounding the 'damaged' bud with warm, dry air, letting it pick up this moisture, then vacuuming out the moister air and replacing it with warm, dry air again. Simple enough, right?

Instead of trying to burst all of the cells at once, I thought it might be best to try it at layers, so I did multiple freezes. I say multiple freezes because I was tired and lost count. It was 4 or 5.

The setup:

I used a pint jar in the freezer (it just fit better), with the lid half off the jar, a string stuck on the bottom of the lid by a piece of silicone putty, and the string holding the bud suspended about halfway in the jar.

The process:

1. Place the jar with lid offset (so air can freely flow in) in the freezer for 45 minutes to an hour (temp registered 5 degrees).
2. Heat up a quart mason jar while the bud is freezing. I poured hot water in there and let it sit. Poured it out and dried out inside of jar.
3. Move lid with bud to quart jar, attach vacuum, and draw air out.
4. When humidity starts to rise, open lid to let in fresh air.
5. Repeat 3 and 4 until humidity does not go lower when drawing vacuum.

I repeated 1 through 5 until I got down to 10% RH and would not go lower. Understand that this is not actually 10% and if allowed to sit I estimate it would be around 65%, maybe a little lower.

The final analysis:

This seems to work, but needs to be replicated/verified. I don't think I lost much, if any, of the volatile components; the smell of the bud afterwards was nearly identical to what I get when I open the grow tent - very intense. I suspect it would cure well, but won't find out, sample size is to small. But...

Will this help with pain and sleep tonight?

Will it scale up to larger, denser buds?

Will it scale up to multiple buds per jar?

Remember, this part is if someone can quickly produce oil from harvest and the jury is still out on this.

Back to the darkside.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Oh, you were right, this is interesting.

Hmmm.... I can feel the beginnings of the need for a thread on adventures in drying. Lol! I've had requests for one on oil recipies too. It's gonna be a busy year. Now you have me wanting to get one of those vacuum jars. Wait, I have one, but I'm not sure it'd work as well. Mine has a hand pump. It was in one of the prize packages. I'm sure it wouldn't be as effective as an electric device, but todo you think it might be enough to give this a try?

A sweet idea for quick meds greatwolf. I can't see why it wouldn't be effective. I personally have a preference for some of my regular chemovars in fresh form, just as they go into the jars. I've yet to be disappointed as to effectiveness. I'll check back to see how you found it.

If you'd like, drop a post in the low and slo thread. DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest I've already muddied those waters by allowing discussions on drying with the dehydrator and using rice balls. I've been considering asking for a name change on the thread anyway, to more closely reflect the dynamic nature of our exploration. This may get me going on that. It'll also take one potential thread off the list.

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Drying Experiment #1

I hope it gives you great relief.

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Oh, you were right, this is interesting.

Hmmm.... I can feel the beginnings of the need for a thread on adventures in drying. Lol! I've had requests for one on oil recipies too. It's gonna be a busy year. Now you have me wanting to get one of those vacuum jars. Wait, I have one, but I'm not sure it'd work as well. Mine has a hand pump. It was in one of the prize packages. I'm sure it wouldn't be as effective as an electric device, but todo you think it might be enough to give this a try?

A sweet idea for quick meds greatwolf. I can't see why it wouldn't be effective. I personally have a preference for some of my regular chemovars in fresh form, just as they go into the jars. I've yet to be disappointed as to effectiveness. I'll check back to see how you found it.

If you'd like, drop a post in the low and slo thread. DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest I've already muddied those waters by allowing discussions on drying with the dehydrator and using rice balls. I've been considering asking for a name change on the thread anyway, to more closely reflect the dynamic nature of our exploration. This may get me going on that. It'll also take one potential thread off the list.

I posted this where you suggested.

Not sure if the hand pump would draw enough vacuum, but can't hurt to try.

My problem with fresh harvest is the added water that must be removed. I plan on drying further, decarbing first, then extracting into MCT oil. I hope to harvest 3 to 5 top buds within the next few weeks which should give me a few grams to try a small batch, maybe a half cup net. Then I'd see if the oil helps as I hippie out does.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Day 56 - New Photos and More

Man those buds are lookn pretty good. What did breeder say for time till harvest? I always take that with a grain of salt tho lol if it says 7 to 8 weeks i usually end up 8 to 9 lol but thts with my photos Ive only done a few autos b4 but since I won the vaults Christmas promo ill have a ton of auto beans to try my new dwc bucket with i keep watchn urs and gettn very excited lol it yea man great job

Going by breeder specs, the Blueberry should be ready in 8 to 18 days and the Tangerine Dream in 13 to 23. But I screwed up early on and led to phosphorous lockout, so a small delay I'd take the rap on. Moe that a week or two and I'll blame the specs. Seems fair to me.

Back to the darkside

 

[Blazinjones]

Re: Day 56 - New Photos and More

Going by breeder specs, the Blueberry should be ready in 8 to 18 days and the Tangerine Dream in 13 to 23. But I screwed up early on and led to phosphorous lockout, so a small delay I'd take the rap on. Moe that a week or two and I'll blame the specs. Seems fair to me.

Back to the darkside

Well shit man definitely looks like u got some gardening skills man great job i wish i had skills like urs lol i just can't seem to get my buds big and fat all the way dwn it seems like only the top buds ever hve anything to them and the lower ones not directly in the light jus stay leafy and not to frosty any ideas

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Day 56 - New Photos and More

Well shit man definitely looks like u got some gardening skills man great job i wish i had skills like urs lol i just can't seem to get my buds big and fat all the way dwn it seems like only the top buds ever hve anything to them and the lower ones not directly in the light jus stay leafy and not to frosty any ideas

Thanks for your kind words but anyone can do this. That is why I have been documenting it step by step in the journal and posting specific topics in the Auto Growers United thread. In particular I posted why topping, LST, and defoliation would slow down flowering. I also posted full directions on the twisted sister technique that I use to manipulate leaves that allows the branches to achieve maximum potential.

This is old stuff that was developed for standard strains (photoperiod) more than 30 years ago and I'm trying to test against autos. First grow but it looks like it works.

I'll have a few more things to add about harvest and container size that I think you'll find relevant very soon.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[Blazinjones]

Re: Day 56 - New Photos and More

Thanks for your kind words but anyone can do this. That is why I have been documenting it step by step in the journal and posting specific topics in the Auto Growers United thread. In particular I posted why topping, LST, and defoliation would slow down flowering. I also posted full directions on the twisted sister technique that I use to manipulate leaves that allows the branches to achieve maximum potential.

This is old stuff that was developed for standard strains (photoperiod) more than 30 years ago and I'm trying to test against autos. First grow but it looks like it works.

I'll have a few more things to add about harvest and container size that I think you'll find relevant very soon.

Cheers from the darkside

Awesome man yea ive heard sweetsue on here talkn about a twisted sister so she must be doing it on one of her plants as well i thought it was a strain name lmao they have so many out there nowadays its crazy. An yea im very interested in seeing what else u come out with in ur journals and how I can try an use it to get bigger better yields lol.

 

[smokesbetter]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

I am only on page 3 but have scanned through , Lookin Good !! What is the watts on the Aerogarden ?? This should make some good meds>.

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

I am only on page 3 but have scanned through , Lookin Good !! What is the watts on the Aerogarden ?? This should make some good meds>.

I'm not sure I can answer the question since the hood of the aerogarden is unplugged. I'm using a cheap, Chinese made, 6 COB LED, and it's 320 watt, rated at 1200 watt equivalent. I've not identified the brand since I don't want to have problems with the sponsors rules. I bought it from Amazon for under $140. Let me know if that answers your question.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[smokesbetter]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Yes that answers my question , Thank You ,, The ones i had looked at were 20-30 watts for the same price but i didn't think that would be enough ? I have never seen this Twisted Sister done and am very interested in the way it works . 30 years its been done where have i been !? LOL

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Yes that answers my question , Thank You ,, The ones i had looked at were 20-30 watts for the same price but i didn't think that would be enough ? I have never seen this Twisted Sister done and am very interested in the way it works . 30 years its been done where have i been !? LOL

I've got a more detailed post in the Auto Growers Unite thread with relevant photos in order on the twisted sister technique. If you search my posts you should easily find it. But in brief, here's why it works:

By pulling the leaf at a 45 deg angle relative to the leaf below and 45 degrees down, the nodes below stay exposed long enough for branches to grow without putting any undue stress on the plant. A side effect is a slight reducing on the light of these leaves so, depending on variety, the branches can almost catch up to main stem. You can see the the Blueberry produced more top branches than the Tangerine Dream. The main stem will develop a twist to it, hence the name, twisted sister.

There were at least 25 of us using this technique, that I know of, of which at least 3 have passed. But none of us were in a positron to publish at that time. I almost didn't journal my grow, but decided that I wanted to give back to the forums after lurking here for a while. And I hadn't seen anything like it described, particularly with autos, so thought I should document it.

Cheers from the darkside

 

[greatwolf]

Day 58 - New Photos

The plants don't seem to be growing appreciably in height in several days, just putting on girth, so I'll stop recording height. At least until harvest begins and there is a change in height.

They consumed a gallon in about 52 hours. Current stats and photos:
pH — 6.5
TDS — 408
Water Temp — 57.4 (morning)
Tent Temp — 63 (median)
Tent RH — 50% (median)


Aerogarden Day 58

Blueberry Day 58

Tangerine Dream Day 58

Blueberry Top Day 58

Tangerine Dream Top Day 58

Cheers from the darkside

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Wow! Blueberry always catches me by surprise. What a prolific oil producer.

I just had a nug jar of Tangie open and the smell still permeates the apartment. How timely of you to post greatwolf. Yours prays to the indoor sun the way my Chem Dawg is doing today. A sight to make a cannabis cultivator smile in appreciation.

 

[greatwolf]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Wow! Blueberry always catches me by surprise. What a prolific oil producer.

I just had a nug jar of Tangie open and the smell still permeates the apartment. How timely of you to post greatwolf. Yours prays to the indoor sun the way my Chem Dawg is doing today. A sight to make a cannabis cultivator smile in appreciation.

Hi Sue, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I picked the Blueberry for nighttime use and the Tangie for daytime. Looks like the Blueberry might be ready to donate enough in a week or so to make about 50 capsules. I figure if I can get at least 5 to 10g off the top 3 buds, that should let me try to make some oil. I'll dry first (using 3 separate techniques to compare), decarb in the instant pot (in a covered pint jar) let it cool to recover any volatile chemicals, blend with 1/4 cup MCT oil, then use the instant pot to infuse the oil (in the same covered pint jar).

I'm hoping this will give me a good conversion and minimal loss. What do you think?

Ill be documenting all of these experiments in my journal, but I'll be happy to copy any to threads you might suggest. I'm also following many others including the canna cream, which I'm hoping to experiment with later.

Bask to the darkside

 

[SweetSue]

Re: Greatwolf's Hydro Auto Blueberry & Tangerine Dream Grand Experiment Journal — 201

Hi Sue, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I picked the Blueberry for nighttime use and the Tangie for daytime. Looks like the Blueberry might be ready to donate enough in a week or so to make about 50 capsules. I figure if I can get at least 5 to 10g off the top 3 buds, that should let me try to make some oil. I'll dry first (using 3 separate techniques to compare), decarb in the instant pot (in a covered pint jar) let it cool to recover any volatile chemicals, blend with 1/4 cup MCT oil, then use the instant pot to infuse the oil (in the same covered pint jar).

I'm hoping this will give me a good conversion and minimal loss. What do you think?

Ill be documenting all of these experiments in my journal, but I'll be happy to copy any to threads you might suggest. I'm also following many others including the canna cream, which I'm hoping to experiment with later.

Bask to the darkside

It sounds very plausible. Are you talking 5-10 grams from each top, wet? That should give you 3-6 grams dry, which would be at least decent potency. I'm hoping you get the higher ranges. You would prefer better than decent.

I had a jar of fresh harvest oil sitting in hot oil crack at the stage when there was still water in the material, and when that water and oil mixed it was dramatic! Since then I've worked with stainless containers for my oil production. Stainless can't break. At the time it was a critical harvest and I resolved to avoid the possibility of reaccurance.

I do all of my bud and oil storage in glass, but all of my oil production in stainless.

I don't recall asking if you've tried a balanced ratio approach for pain management? There's so little research to back up the contention that this is the answer, considering that the research was done by a company preparing to market a balanced ratio product, and I'm always curious about what goes on in the real world.

Did you catch our discovery about applying topicals to the pad at the top of the spine, base of the neck? I think it's time to find out the anatomical name for this body part. This isn't a proper way to communicate its placement. Anyway, it may be an excellent additional pathway for pain management as well. Worth keeping in mind for when you get to the topicals stage.

I'll keep an eye on what you're posting and see where it can be useful in the data banks. Lol!