Hardgraf's Black Sugar CFL Grow

[donpaul.p]

them long bulbs give me light off the side of the bulb than the end, so you would benefit from one of those arched reflectors, a sort of double arch and the bulb sits in the middle hanging on its side, you could also add some side lighting for the buds lower down, get some lower watt cfls and put them on the walls of the grow, this way you got the main lights above but the side lights will then let the plant have light lower down

 

[Hardgraf]

So today is DIY day!

If I supplement with some bulbs at the lower bud sites how do you normally provide enough mains plugs for all these lights?!

 

[Hardgraf]

So after a few hours of DIY & driving round I've finally got everything set up for flowering and I've set the timers to 12/12 starting tonight

Here's how I got round the reflector issue...

I bought another identical CFL reflector and cut the two reflector down on one side. I then duct- taped the sharp edges and hung them together with chain.

Here's a view of both 125w bulbs (6500k & 2700k) from underneath...

I've placed another 25w 2700k bulb in the gap between the two plants just as some lower supplemental lighting. Might add another as time goes on, wait and see how things develop. The total wattage is now 275w. 125w of 6500k & 150w of 2700k. The temperature in the garden has increased to about 26 degrees no doubt due to the added heat from the new bulbs. I'll keep an eye on it over the next couple of days but should be fine.

I'm still worried about running out of headroom as the plants get bigger over the next couple of week. Cross that bridge when I come to it I suppose...

This is my electrical setup which I assume is safe?! I have the extendable extension coming through a hole in the wall to a mains socket.

Cheers

 

[donpaul.p]

looks ok mate, what you can do is wire a couple of the cfls cables into 1 plug, i have 3 cfl lights running off one plus, as long as the amps dont go to high it will be ok, but 2 or 3 cfls wont be to much for the plug or fuse to take, so if you run out of plug space then cut the plugs off 2 or 3 of the cfls and wire them all into 1 plug, its a bit tight but it is safe and saves having loads of plugs, the reflectors you have got are perfect and will improve things loads,

id say headroom is the problem though mate, some plants will double and even tripple in size due to them stretching when starting to flower, it dont look like you got much head room to start with this is probably also why the temps are going up, the best temp range they say is around 78f but my plant seem to grow quicker and more healthy with a slightly higher temp, so i keep mine around 85, the reason i think mine are growing better due to this is down to where the plants come from they reach temps in the 90's and sometimes over 100f naturally where they grow, so i think 78f is a guide, i found temps below this slow growth loads so as long as their above 78 and below 90 i think you should be ok.

not sure what you can do about the head room, is their no other space you could use like an old wardrobe or built in cupboard, all im using is an old built in drying cupboard as i live in a flat so i use that but its floor to ceiling high so i dont have the height issues.

but by the looks of your setup it looks like your on your way to growing some amazing bud,

where did you get your lights from, did you go to hydro shop or use the net, i struggled to find high power cfls so had to use a load of 23 and 30 actual watt cfls, i got mine from screw fix as that was the only place that sold the 6400k cfls, i had loads of the 2700k cfls around my flat as i got them free out the paper and from npower, so i had loads of them ranging from 15 watts up to about 30watt and they got me well into flower, but when i starting using 400actual watts i decided it made sense to flip to a 400 watt dual spectrum hps, it gives me 55,000 lumins, it cost me £65 from flee bay and came with bulb,ballast and reflector, so thats what im using now, i still have a smaller grow room for clones and seeds and still use cfls for them as it keeps the costs down

 

[Hardgraf]

Cheers for the advice.

I have other spaces but I've cut 4" holes in the wall and taken out the loft insulation etc for the exhaust so don't want to move everything unless I really have to.

You can get these big bulbs from any grow shop, they do the reflectors to fit them too as the fitting is much bigger than normal light bulb (E40). My only gripe with them is they give off much more heat than your small household bulbs.

Interestingly, I was at the grow shop this week and they had a 150w HPS bulb set up which is obviously much brighter than the CFL's and can be used for veg & flower. Didn't seem to give off much heat at all.

About £110 in total I think with the ballast etc.

 

[donpaul.p]

id check ebay for the hps mate, i got mine really cheap off their, brand new in the box, it was from a flee bay shop on their, it was £65 including delivery and i got the 400watt dual spectrum hps with digital ballast, which means that i can also buy a metal halide bulb and run that in the same ballast as the hps, you cant how ever use hps bulbs in a mh ballast, but if you get a digital hps ballast then these will also power mh bulbs of the same wattage, hps bulbs are more suited to flower but like mh bulbs you can use them for both stages of growth, how ever hps is the better option is its more suited for flowering so would produce better results than the mh bulb.

but now you can buy dual spectrum hps bulbs it means you dont need to use mh for the veg stage, you can just use the hps for both stages of growth, it dont give off the exact same blue light as mh bulbs do but it gives off enough to make the plants grow quick and healthy during veg, so thats what im now using, i use it for both veg and flower, cost me 65 quid and works perfect, i get lots more lumins with the hps than i did with the cfls, the temps do go through the roof though, i could keep my grow room door closed when i was using 15 x 30watt cfls but with this 1 x 400 watt dual spec hps i cant leave the door totally closed else the plants would cook, but having the door open is not a problem,

i use cfls in my smaller grow cupboard, i found using cfls the plants didnt want to get very tall, i was going to flower my first grow off when the plants reached 1ft tall, but after 7 weeks they was still not that tall so i switched to flower as they was very bushy, but now i use only 3 x 23 watt 6500 k cfls in my small clone and seedling cupboard and the plants seem to grow better and taller with less lights so not exactly sure why, but when my hps is on i take the plants out of the small grow cupboard and put them under the hps then when the hps goes off i take them out and put them back under cfls.

you would get a better deal off the auction site than the hydro shop, so id look their first, only buy something thats new and in the box as you dont want an old ballast or bulb, go for a digital ballast as well then you have the option of using mh bulbs as well if you wanted to give them a boost during veg, you could just take the hps bulb out and put the mh in.
i grow 6 plants at a time so 400 watts is what i need, for 2 plants you would be ok with 150watts plus you could always supliment tall plants with some side lighting which is what i do when i have a taller plant.

for your height problem what you could of done is some low stress training, its probably to late now as the stem might be to hard but basically what you do is train the plant to grow sideways and not upwards, this gives you an even canopy and many top bud sites, 20+ at least, when i was using cfls this is what i did, im also doing this with the plant that has got 2 stems, i trained both stems to grow to the opposite edge of the pot then let it grow up, so now i have got 2 main stems growing upwards at either edge of the pot but where i trained it i have got loads of shoots growing upwards towards the light, so it looks like i got a long plant in the pot instead of one thats growing upwards, what this does is then give you many main bud sites as you are growing the stem sideways keeping the stem at the same level, this then makes all the growth at the nodes grow upwards at the same rate, so you dont just have the main stem at the top of the plant, instead you have 20 or 30 main stems all growing up towards the light, so instead of having a 2ft plant you might only have a plant 8 inches high but will have many main bud sites.

low stress training.
i went to the rain forest sounding sale site not the auction one and purchased a pack of 30cm pipe cleaners, then when my plant started growing from seed i transplanted it into the bigger pot i was going to finish it in, then i poked holes all the way around the pot, then i poked the pipe cleaner through the hole and hooked it round the top of the plant, i then pulled the plant down so it was running sideways, it may take a few days to get the stem running horizontel due to it wanting to grow up so be careful not to pull it down to much to start off with as you can break the stem, so keep pulling it down a bit each day, when its running sideways you will notice how quick the shoots grow at the nodes, these then become the top of the plant so these grow upwards like crazy, you then need to keep moving the pipe cleaners around the pot as the stem grows because every few days the stem will grow enough to start growing upwards so you just move the pipe cleaner to the next hole and pull it back down, then keep doing this till your happy with the plant then flip it to flower.
continue with the lst while it starts to flower and then after a couple of weeks stop with the lst and let the plant grow upwards so the buds can get bigger, then the plant wont be tall when finished but will have many main buds giving you a decent return.

if you have a look on my journal you will see my 2 stem plant, it was a clone i took and somehow it grew 2 stems so i used pipe cleaners to train each stem to opposite sides of the pot, so if you look on my journal you will see what i mean about lst and how it works and the results you get, a lot of people do this when height is an issue as you can train the main stem to grow sideways instead of upwards, then when all the other branches are growing upwards you can pull them down as well, it will give you great results and wont take up much height, its worth looking into,.

 

[Hardgraf]

Yeah cheers, I would go for HPS next time except I have very limited space which is very concealed. You would never suspect anything was behind the hidden door!

You're right, should have done some LST early on. Too late now I think. I can always move the plants out from directly under the bulbs therefore giving them more room but obviously this will diminish bud development as they won't receive anywhere near as much direct light...

 

[Smokemupm8]

Hi mate, i had a small lesson with my lighting recently also..Tho im running a 400w MH.. Hoping your girl bounces back for ya! Good luk and Happy Harvesting

 

[Hardgraf]

thanks

Next question! I have to go away with work this week for 4 days. Can I get away with a heavy watering tonight then leave unwatered for 4 days?

 

[Smokemupm8]

That may be pushing it...Can you maybe get an empty 1 litre coke bottle,put sum small holes in it so it slowly drips.. Something like that may keep some water for an extra day or so..Goodluk hope theyre alryt

 

[sfw88]

if you have a cooler with a drain in the bottom, that you might be able to fix a small hose to it,,.Freeze gallon chunks of ice or bigger , and leave the drain plug open.with the lid closed it will take several days for the large chunks to melt .. simple aquarium hose will work ,with a little DIY'n. ...the water from the darin plug could even drip into a funnel with hose attached ,and go from there

 

[Hardgraf]

Hey guys. Thanks for the suggestions. Didn't have time to sort anything out so I'm a little worried. Managed a good waterering this afternoon (Mon) but won't be back to water again until Fri evening so that's 3 1/2 days without water!
Do you think they will suffer badly? Watered nearly a litre to each plant today.

Last thing I want is to return home to 2 shrivelled hermies!

 

[Smokemupm8]

HI Graf, couldnt you get a smallish bottle and put water with a couple small holes in it and rest it across ur pot? Even an extra days water would be better than nuthin.. Hope she's ok for you....

 

[donpaul.p]

they will be ok mate, you gave them a good water and as long as the temps dont get to crazy they should be ok, i only water mine every 3 or 4 days, so chances are you might see a huge difference in growth, they may grow more due to less water, the roots like to have oxygen as well so like a good draining light soil, the more air they get the better, so letting the pot really dry out before next water does them loads of good, i over watered mine at the start and they grew really slow, so now i only water when the pots are dry and i find the plants like it like this and grow really well when the pots are dry, i now try and only water enough so their is no run off, some growers grow in pots that dont have holes in and they dont over or under water, i usually water till their is some run off, so i can check the ph, or if im flushing out old nutes when switching to flower or flushing before harvest then i water till their is plenty of run off

 

[Hardgraf]

Nice one, cheers. Was a little worried but should be all ok when I get back on Fri. On 12/12 now so much cooler at night (20 degrees) and a constant 25 during the light periods so they shouldn't dry out quite as fast as when they were vegging...

 

[Hardgraf]

Got back tonight and plants were looking very sorry for themselves due to a lack of water fed and watered them so they should perk up by tomorrow when I'll get some pics up. Temp in the room has soared to 28.5 degrees (83 farenheit) so I've rearranged the fan so it's pointing right at the bulbs in an attempt to dissapate the heat. I've realised that a small attic cupboard isnt the ideal place for a garden as the temp fluctuates so much due to changes in the weather.

Lack of water and the added temp has meant the plants havent grown a lot this week. No sign of bud development as yet but its only 6 days into 12/12 so plenty of time yet.

 

[donpaul.p]

sounds like you just got them in time mate, they will pick up a lot quicer than that, one of mine was wilting yesterday due to the fan not blowing on or above that one plant so i gave it a good water and after about 2 hours all the leaves where reaching for the light and none was wilting so they recover pretty quick, the problem i found i had was that when i watered it was running down channels in the pot and strait out the bottom of the pot, so now i make sure i pour slower and allow it to soak into the soil, this then stopped the plants drying out so quick, also having the pots sitting in a dish helps as it can then soak up the water it needs,

 

[Easeedoesit]

You got my attention!! I'll be watching your grow as well. Happy growing

 

[Hardgraf]

Ye cheers Donpaul. So with this hot weather here in the UK comes a new problem, HEAT! Got to the garden yesterday and we had 32.5 degrees (92) at canopy level and the plants looking sorry for themselves again

I have a good quality 4" exhaust fan installed but the air from outside being sucked in is at 25 degrees. This compounded by the small grow space and the heat from the lights means that it's impossible to keep cool...

For now I've left the door open to try and dissapate the heat but its not a permanant fix & I fear that at night there may be some light creeping in disturbing the 12 hrs of darkness.

I think I will have to either move the grow room somewhere more suitable with more space or change the lighting schedule to lights off during the day and lights on at night. I should have thought about this before starting to flower but you live & learn.

Is there anyway to completely reverse the lighting schedule and save my plants without stressing them?

The setup would be perfect in winter but these summer temperatures are causing all sorts of headaches!

 

[Hardgraf]

Thinking about it, the only other thing missing is an intake fan into the room but there's ample cracks etc between the cupboards wall for the extraction fan & filter to suck fresh air from. Just that the fresh air is already 25 degrees and then is subjected to the heat given off by the bulbs! Temp in the apartment is 24 so no surprise that the garden is nearly at 33 during the day!