Head spinning looking at Chinese website

[multiVortex]

so far i've only ordered stuff from amazon. just placed my first ebay order from premixed STS. lol i know i'm dumb. I don't mind getting everything online. even things i can buy here i order from amazon because every business in this little town expects you to buy local but mark everything up to the point where i'm buying things at amazon for half the price i'd buy it for in town. serves them right.

I'll order stuff online. (Unfortunately) Mr Bezos and myself are quite well acquainted. If I can get it for a good bit less and not make an extra trip, I will. If the prices in-town are close, as good, or better, then I'll go here.

It's like what Joe told Kicking Wing, "It's not what you like, it's the consumer."

 

[Icemud]

can you tell me what makes HLG lights worth so much more than the budget led lights? if they have the same diodes what's the dif?

Just wanted to put this out there for everyone interested.

Although 2 different companies may use the same boards, same LED chips... there could be a decently significant difference in the LED chip BIN which the chips were from. Not saying this justifies any difference in price, however generally it will influence price.

With LED's, the goal is to buy the LED panel which offers the best coverage AND has the best efficiency. LED chips generally are grouped into BIN's, which Identical chips are rated for color temperature and brightness (lumenous flux). The premium BIN LED chips are highly sought after as they produce the most light for the least amount of electricity (which is the goal with LED light) therefore generally fetch a higher price than lower BIN leds.

For instance, the HLG boards I believe use LM301B Samsung chips in them. These chips come in in many different color temps and CRI ratings, but within each CRI and Color temp there may be 3 or 4 different BINS. For instance a low bin chip may be $0.02-0.05 cents cheaper than a high bin chip. When you have 100+ chips on a single board, then obviously a higher bin chip will cost slightly more to manufacture. Not a huge difference, but to the grower, the difference in lumenous flux between a low bin chip and a high bin chip can be anywhere from 4-8 lumens per chip or more. Obviously when you have a couple hundred chips, 4-8 lumens per chip can add up quickly to much more light.

Not all LED grow light manufactures will give you this information, and many times don't even know what BIN their chips are, but it may be worth your while to do some research on the specific chips that a certain company uses, and then ask them what BIN chips they are. Usually each manufacture will put out data sheets or BIN code sheet which will help you identify what BIN chips are from, based on their manufacture SKU or part number.

This may not be the ONLY difference in price when looking at 2 company's, same boards, same chips, but it definitely will play into the costing. Also look at warranties, what the warranty covers, company reputation and longevity, and if you needed to use the warranty where do you have to ship the product, do they send a replacement to you first...etc...

This post is not intended to be specific to any particular company, I used HLG as an example because they advertise High-Bin diodes but this general topic could apply to many companies products. Generally I have found that a company who prides themselves in using High Bin diodes generally is not hesitant to supply you with order sheets or information to prove the diodes are high bin. Generally companies that use low bin are not as transparent.

 

[Remystemple]

Just wanted to put this out there for everyone interested.

Although 2 different companies may use the same boards, same LED chips... there could be a decently significant difference in the LED chip BIN which the chips were from. Not saying this justifies any difference in price, however generally it will influence price.

With LED's, the goal is to buy the LED panel which offers the best coverage AND has the best efficiency. LED chips generally are grouped into BIN's, which Identical chips are rated for color temperature and brightness (lumenous flux). The premium BIN LED chips are highly sought after as they produce the most light for the least amount of electricity (which is the goal with LED light) therefore generally fetch a higher price than lower BIN leds.

For instance, the HLG boards I believe use LM301B Samsung chips in them. These chips come in in many different color temps and CRI ratings, but within each CRI and Color temp there may be 3 or 4 different BINS. For instance a low bin chip may be $0.02-0.05 cents cheaper than a high bin chip. When you have 100+ chips on a single board, then obviously a higher bin chip will cost slightly more to manufacture. Not a huge difference, but to the grower, the difference in lumenous flux between a low bin chip and a high bin chip can be anywhere from 4-8 lumens per chip or more. Obviously when you have a couple hundred chips, 4-8 lumens per chip can add up quickly to much more light.

Not all LED grow light manufactures will give you this information, and many times don't even know what BIN their chips are, but it may be worth your while to do some research on the specific chips that a certain company uses, and then ask them what BIN chips they are. Usually each manufacture will put out data sheets or BIN code sheet which will help you identify what BIN chips are from, based on their manufacture SKU or part number.

This may not be the ONLY difference in price when looking at 2 company's, same boards, same chips, but it definitely will play into the costing. Also look at warranties, what the warranty covers, company reputation and longevity, and if you needed to use the warranty where do you have to ship the product, do they send a replacement to you first...etc...

This post is not intended to be specific to any particular company, I used HLG as an example because they advertise High-Bin diodes but this general topic could apply to many companies products. Generally I have found that a company who prides themselves in using High Bin diodes generally is not hesitant to supply you with order sheets or information to prove the diodes are high bin. Generally companies that use low bin are not as transparent.

Thank's a bunch for posting this. i've heard the BIN referenced before but didn't think anything of it. amazing information for anyone looking to buy quantum boards.

 

[Elevated Lighting Company]

Just wanted to put this out there for everyone interested.

Although 2 different companies may use the same boards, same LED chips... there could be a decently significant difference in the LED chip BIN which the chips were from. Not saying this justifies any difference in price, however generally it will influence price.

With LED's, the goal is to buy the LED panel which offers the best coverage AND has the best efficiency. LED chips generally are grouped into BIN's, which Identical chips are rated for color temperature and brightness (lumenous flux). The premium BIN LED chips are highly sought after as they produce the most light for the least amount of electricity (which is the goal with LED light) therefore generally fetch a higher price than lower BIN leds.

For instance, the HLG boards I believe use LM301B Samsung chips in them. These chips come in in many different color temps and CRI ratings, but within each CRI and Color temp there may be 3 or 4 different BINS. For instance a low bin chip may be $0.02-0.05 cents cheaper than a high bin chip. When you have 100+ chips on a single board, then obviously a higher bin chip will cost slightly more to manufacture. Not a huge difference, but to the grower, the difference in lumenous flux between a low bin chip and a high bin chip can be anywhere from 4-8 lumens per chip or more. Obviously when you have a couple hundred chips, 4-8 lumens per chip can add up quickly to much more light.

Not all LED grow light manufactures will give you this information, and many times don't even know what BIN their chips are, but it may be worth your while to do some research on the specific chips that a certain company uses, and then ask them what BIN chips they are. Usually each manufacture will put out data sheets or BIN code sheet which will help you identify what BIN chips are from, based on their manufacture SKU or part number.

This may not be the ONLY difference in price when looking at 2 company's, same boards, same chips, but it definitely will play into the costing. Also look at warranties, what the warranty covers, company reputation and longevity, and if you needed to use the warranty where do you have to ship the product, do they send a replacement to you first...etc...

This post is not intended to be specific to any particular company, I used HLG as an example because they advertise High-Bin diodes but this general topic could apply to many companies products. Generally I have found that a company who prides themselves in using High Bin diodes generally is not hesitant to supply you with order sheets or information to prove the diodes are high bin. Generally companies that use low bin are not as transparent.

Icemud Brings up a good point that many people over look and many people do not know about.

We use Samsung LM301B SK in our series 2 kits which I believe HLG also utilizes in their v2.

 

[Remystemple]

@Chris Scorpio if i have a driver at .65 amps and a chip that says 1.2 amps does this mean that the driver will only drive the chip at about half power? also if the driver had more amps than the chip would the chip blow up? just an example I get how output voltage applies to the chips, just don't get how the amps do.

 

[Chris Scorpio]

Chips and bds are way different

On a board I can help, but a single chip is kinda irrelevant untill it's placed on a board and stats are posted

But theoretically, yes yer correct

 

[TorturedSoul]

I don't mind getting everything online. even things i can buy here i order from amazon because every business in this little town expects you to buy local but mark everything up to the point where i'm buying things at amazon for half the price i'd buy it for in town. serves them right.

Amazon... Putting local businesses out of business - with its customers' help .

 

[Remystemple]

Amazon... Putting local businesses out of business - with its customers' help .

the problem with this town is, you go into home hardware looking for something, and they never, ever have it. so the little prick at the counter says " i can order it for you" .

too many instances of this has made it so i don't even bother to check the stores here anymore. i can order my own stuff online without a mark up. I realize that amazon might hurt some small business' but my bottom line is the only one that matters to me.

 

[10gal]

Amazon... Putting local businesses out of business - with its customers' help .

yup, then they get mad when there is no work in town anymore and they are all addicted to meth out of dispare

sad times, and itll get worse before it gets better

 

[Elevated Lighting Company]

the problem with this town is, you go into home hardware looking for something, and they never, ever have it. so the little prick at the counter says " i can order it for you" .

too many instances of this has made it so i don't even bother to check the stores here anymore. i can order my own stuff online without a mark up. I realize that amazon might hurt some small business' but my bottom line is the only one that matters to me.

Totally understandable. Just keep in mind, small businesses have to manage their pocketbooks too. Some items they can't carry because of days in inventory and such.

They also probably can't sell at lower prices because of volume. They dont sell a ton so they cant buy a ton to get lower prices on their end.

I can tell you first hand, buying 100's of drivers at one time from Meanwell was hard to swallow when we first started out. When we placed our first machine plating order, I about fainted when the bill was due.

It is all about adaptability and growth.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I've been on both sides of this one. I'm poor, so I obviously look for ways to save money (or as I think of it, ways to eat).

However, I also saw a nice old lady work herself half to death (54 hours/week @ age 79) at the last real hardware store in my area, doing everything that her employees did other than cutting/threading pipe (21' joints of 2" ID gas and water pipe can be a little heavy for the elderly) because she couldn't afford to hire enough people to just sit on her butt in the office all day. It also meant that she mostly did the "business stuff" after closing time, so... even more hours. She never failed to pay her employees or suppliers, but there were weeks when she couldn't cash her own paycheck. Letting anyone who wanted to pay "whenever" (interest-free store account) because, well, that's a sale she'd have lost, otherwise.

Putting up with drunken redneck @sshole customers and (mostly) still being as nice as could be. Special-ordering crap - yeah, surprise, that gizmo that only sells once every five years or so? Don't expect there to be 50 of them in the back room - after getting grief for not having it on hand, making about two dollars on it and then getting more grief because it wasn't cheaper. Wives coming in for something or other and, when asked what size they needed, replying, "My husband says his thumb just fits inside." ("Okay, did you bring your husband's thumb with you?") More grief. Clueless people coming in, spending an hour getting literally taught how to perform a repair, what, you need to borrow the tools to do it? Sure, why not? Or the person ended up being so incredibly... There were lots of times when she ended up following the person home and just doing the @#%^ repair for them, because it ended up being easier (you had to know the kind of people that some of our customers were, I suppose, for that one to really make sense). To make, what, $840? $84? One day she returned and announced that she'd just saved someone (IIRC) $150 - and made 84 cents in the process. Oops, that was the gross. You figure the profit on that one.

Who knows how many times she considered closing down? But, well... Serving a need and all that.

A few days after Christmas one year - she'd given us each $100 bonus. That doesn't seem like much to some of you, probably. I felt bad for accepting it; her vehicle was broken down at the time, but she still managed to give us something, yeah? Anyway, a few days after Christmas, one of our customers rolled up in his truck. Things were slow, so we were both up front cleaning, and when she saw him, she looked at me and said, "Well, that's something at least - looks like Jack is here to pay his bill, finally."

He walked in and she asked him if he was just in to pay or if he needed something, too. "Oh, gee, I forgot all about that. No, I just bought these five gas stoves at Lowes and forgot to get..." I forget exactly what it was, but remember that it cost less than a dollar. As he was walking out the door, he turned back around, smiled, and said, "I sure am glad you're here. I don't know what this town would do without you."

To which she replied, "You're about to find out." He laughed, waved, and left. That evening, she told us that she'd decided that she didn't want to still be working at 80 and was going to close. I didn't blame her even a little bit.

That was about ten years ago. Once in a while, I'll be in the grocery store and someone will come up to me and say something like, "Hey, you used to work at <STORE>, didn't you?" When I reply that I did, it never fails - the very next thing out of their mouth is, "I sure do miss it."

So... Yeah, I guess this kind of thing is one of my pet peeves. Y'all can save a few bucks - or you can choose to save a lot more than that. . . .

 

[Remystemple]

Chips and bds are way different

On a board I can help, but a single chip is kinda irrelevant untill it's placed on a board and stats are posted

But theoretically, yes yer correct

@Chris Scorpio , any chance i could get you to tell me what the brightest cob chip i could use with this driver? i'd like to first change all the 6500k cobs out for 3000k cobs as i have dedicated veg lights now. and at the same time would like to replace all the cobs with something a little brighter if possible.

I have done a little work in that i'm learning how to navigate the mouser.ca site and i think i found the best one for the driver but i'm hoping for a little feedback on it. it's the CREE CMT2850. it has a bit more amperage than the driver so i don't blow the light, if i'm even understanding that part correctly lol. also it has voltage that fits within the range the driver shows.

the cobs in the lights now are CREE CXA2530, and after looking at the specs i felt like i could fit something in them with a few more lumens. here's the driver. there's one for each cob in the light.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I have done a little work in that i'm learning how to navigate the <EDITED BECAUSE IT'S NOT A SPONSOR AND I DON'T WANT TO GET SPANKED AGAIN>.ca site and i think i found the best one for the driver but i'm hoping for a little feedback on it. it's the CREE CMT2850. it has a bit more amperage than the driver so i don't blow the light, if i'm even understanding that part correctly lol. also it has voltage that fits within the range the driver shows.

the cobs in the lights now are CREE CXA2530, and after looking at the specs i felt like i could fit something in them with a few more lumens. here's the driver. there's one for each cob in the light.

It's been a couple years since I window-shopped for a replacement for Cree's 2530 COBs, but I do remember that there didn't seem to be many choices that had the same physical footprint - in other words, same size, mounting holes in the same location, part of the light-emitting portion of the COB wouldn't be covered up by the LED panel case, etc. The choice I looked at first was the Cree 3590 series, if memory serves, but it appeared to be too large to easily fit my application. I saw that the 2550 ones would swap right in. I wasn't sure how much of an improvement it would have been (assuming some, for sure, but...).

I ended up not going through with the upgrade due to finances, but still have the panel. If/when you upgrade yours, please post the brand/model COBs you end up using, and whether you had to do any modifications to your device in order to get them to fit (thanks!). And good luck with your upgrade.

 

[Remystemple]

It's been a couple years since I window-shopped for a replacement for Cree's 2530 COBs, but I do remember that there didn't seem to be many choices that had the same physical footprint - in other words, same size, mounting holes in the same location, part of the light-emitting portion of the COB wouldn't be covered up by the LED panel case, etc. The choice I looked at first was the Cree 3590 series, if memory serves, but it appeared to be too large to easily fit my application. I saw that the 2550 ones would swap right in. I wasn't sure how much of an improvement it would have been (assuming some, for sure, but...).

I ended up not going through with the upgrade due to finances, but still have the panel. If/when you upgrade yours, please post the brand/model COBs you end up using, and whether you had to do any modifications to your device in order to get them to fit (thanks!). And good luck with your upgrade.

I'll definitely share that info when I get it done.

 

[Remystemple]

Yeah it turns out the 2450s are the brightest chips that would fit. Seems like a nice cheap upgrade. Also swapping out the 6500k for something with a lower k should help get more buds. I've seen some mention of increased thc production under certain Kelvin. Also stuff like stretching apparently can be help with specific Kelvin.

Neato

 

[SmokingWings]

Amazon... Putting local businesses out of business - with its customers' help .

And the local business still does not have the money. They have to wait until the bank that issued the credit card to transfer the money to the stores account. Really bad for cash flow.

 

[10gal]

And the local business still does not have the money. They have to wait until the bank that issued the credit card to transfer the money to the stores account. Really bad for cash flow.

not as bad as when they charge the card back lol

 

[Remystemple]

And the local business still does not have the money. They have to wait until the bank that issued the credit card to transfer the money to the stores account. Really bad for cash flow.

well seeing as everything we buy already says made in china on it, i don't see the difference. take it up with your politicians and leave people alone for their shopping choices. It's reminding me of the climate change nazis telling me "I" need to change and "I" need to go without and have less. tell it to the companies and the governments, not to me.

 

[10gal]

well seeing as everything we buy already says made in china on it

stop shopping at box stores?

not that it much matters at this point, most of the industrial capability has been moved to china
I think they published a book about it in 1903

the problem is that baby boomers and gen x thought it was cool to be dumb and not read, which i dont know how they could think otherwise with tv programming.

but if you people knew anything about money or commerce you wouldnt let a dollar escape your county border.

wealth is a store of labour, money is a means of transferring that wealth and commerce is siphoning out that wealth to use it elsewhere.
commerce buying something for one price and taking it somewhere else to sell for more money, it is a form of usury and very immoral which is why you need a business licence to engage in the activity.

but with the way info and mornons are controlled today, i dont think its possible to fix at this point, everything will have to crash and people will have to start over, if they arent invaded and subjugated.

but yeah! cheap broken garbage and 2 for one pants that lower your sperm count! YAY!

 

[10gal]

well seeing as everything we buy already says made in china on it, i don't see the difference. take it up with your politicians and leave people alone for their shopping choices. It's reminding me of the climate change nazis telling me "I" need to change and "I" need to go without and have less. tell it to the companies and the governments, not to me.

but ya you are right on the money there, youd need a huge movement that wasnt worried about saving 3.50$ to make any difference at this point