Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcome

[button45321]

Okay so this is my very first indoor grow. Please leave comments and concerns! I've had some very successful outdoor harvests in the past but this is very different. Never had an auto flower strain, never had to buy a light, etc. I've seen a couple other threads with the same strain and this plant seems to be very small in comparison and I don't know why! Please help. Here is the low down.

What strain is it? Heavyweight Fast & Vast Autoflower Feminized
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? Indica 80% / Sativa 20%
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Flower
If in Veg... For how long? N/A Autoflower
If in Flower stage... 1 month old
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil, Miracle Grow Potting Soil
If soil... Miracle Grow Potting Soil
If soil... What size pot? 2 gallon I think
Size of light? Hydro Galaxy 300w & 60w cfl
Is it aircooled? No
Temp of Room/cab? 65-70
RH of Room/cab? idk
PH of media or res? idk
Any Pests? No
How often are you watering? Every 2-3 days
Type and strength of ferts used? Miracle Grow All Purpose Plant Food
Heavyweight Fast & Vast Autoflowering Feminised

Genetics : Afghani x Skunk x White Dwarf
Type : Indica 80%, Sativa 20%
CBD : 0.8%
THC : 17-19%
Flowering time : Autoflowering
Harvest : Approximately 8 weeks from germination
Plant Height : 100m-120cm
Yield : 600-800gr/m2


She is supposed to be ready approximately 8 weeks in..She is currently 1 month old and doesn't look anywhere near ready. Approximately 8 inches tall. Using miracle grow potting soil and miracle grow all purpose plant food. Gave it a little bit of nutes about week ago over 2-3 days and noticed a very slight amount of what I believe is burn. The light is a Hydro Galaxy 300w, though I'm unsure of the actual wattage output.

My concern is the size at this point. I think it should be much bigger in comparison to other heavyweight threads. My question is why. Is it not getting enough light? Did the nutes stunt her? Is the weather at night too cold causing slow growth? I don't know. Here are the pics. Feedback Please!

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

Well to be honest it looks like you don't have a grow room which will make things a bit more difficult for ya. And contrary to popular belief tin foil is not very reflective. White painted walls are better.

But anyway I will try and help a bit with the info you gave.

Miracle grow is generally not considered good soil for cannabis growers if you want control over the nutes. It has time released nutes in it that last a long time disallowing you full control. Works alright for beginners who forget to fertilize but generally speaking very easy to burn using that stuff. I used it for years myself but I know how to manage it. It can be done but you gots ta tread lightly.

Even more importantly in an auto, which will be done in just a few months, using Miracle grow, you would probably never need to add nutes as it doesn't last long enough to consume the time release stuff in there. So it is very easy to burn as you have found out. For growing weed indoors you really want to mix up a blend of soil because nothing off the shelf is really what you want. You can look up "super soil" recipes on the web and there are tons. A good super soil in a big enough pot probably will also last the entire life of an auto meaning just add water.

All that said those pics, if recent, don't look all that burnt. If anything maybe a bit over watered. Until the plant is consuming so much water that you need to water it daily you want to let it dry out a bit between waterings. There are many reasons for this.

So I would focus on setting up a proper tent somewhere with ventilation that allows proper enviro control. Let her dry out a bit and hang back on the nutes. MG soil is hot for at least 3 months so you should never need to add more.


Lastly I don't know about that LED light. I use HID lighting. I know that with HID lighting anything less than 400W and you have to really know what you are doing to get good product. I mean I always got decent stuff from my 250 but it wasn't till I got a 400 that I got professional dense nugs. Now I use a 1000W and it is all just personal. I figure why waste 4 months and all that goes into it running at anything less than 1000 in bloom.

Indoor growing is a long learning adventure. Plan to keep buying better and better equipment. You can always use that LED for clones and sprouts

Hey also that is just at the size where plants take off. So a little patients and restraint and you should be ok.

Best of luck! keep us updated...

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

Thank you for the advice! I will definitely not be adding any more nutes throughout the life cycle, let her dry out a bit between waterings, etc. I will research soil mixtures and a better setup.. and will surely keep things updated. Can't wait to learn more and for the future! Does the 400W HID drive up your electric bad? What about the 1000W??! Thats my biggest concern.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

I'm working out of a closet..I need to check out ventilation and what not. Thanks again

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

Every situation is unique really. I use a 5'x5' tent which is a perfect size for 1000W. If you end up in a 2x4 closet you wont want 1000W.

My setup I can grow once a year and make enough for me and my wife. I live in Oregon so I can grow legally 4 plants. So 1000W doesn't cost that much when you run it just for bloom once a year. I can scrog 4 plants in a 5x5 and get pounds. 1000W is only 10 100W bulbs so it really isn't that much...like leaving on all the lights in your house. Just change all the house lights to CFL and you wont notice. I use my old 400W from college days for early veg until I fill the SCROG about 60%, then it makes sense to switch over. That 400W is like leaving on 4 lights....wohoo big deal. 1 1000w bulb they can't see on your bill it is like 20 bucks a month...its when you get professional and have like 4 or more.

But LEDs are great too. Lots of people have great success with them. I just started growing back before any of that stuff was around so I just use what I have and know. I want to get some but they are expensive and I have plenty of lights.

So what you need to do is decide where you want to do your grows and how big of a cabinet or tent you can put there. If you want to make it yourself then look up ones that are similar in size that come as a package. You can get an idea of what the right light and vent is by stealing the design specs from a similar one online.

I made my own cabinet 3 different times from large self assembly cabinets from Home depot and if you vent right they work great. But tents these days don't cost much more and have lots of advantages.

Once you go into a closed space like a tent or cabinet ventilation becomes very important. Without a vent fan the plants will die. So you will need about $70 for that fan and about $120 for a carbon filter. With a speed controller and a few fans you can very easily control the temps in the cabinet and keep things happy warm.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

Very informative and well put. Thank you Village

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

UPDATE I think we are about day 34-36 in these pictures. Didn't water for a few days, added a couple CFLS.

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

Well when I stand on my head those look alright...

Does that pot have drain holes in the bottom? If not go get a drill. A good watering routine has vented pots which drain the excess away and you water 2 out of 3 days. That is once they are decent sized with a goo root system. To develop a good root system you need a good pot. The above ground plant will always be limited by the potential root mass you can develop. 2 days on 1 day off is also not the law. I have had multiple grows where I need to water twice a day. It all depends on the total environment. I was watching a show on the Colorado warehouse growers and they are on a 6 day cycle. Water day 1 and 2, dry out day 3, water with nutes day 4, water normal day 5, dry out day 6. So basically 2 on 1 off and every other cycle fertilize day one. But they have a huge room with proper controls. 15-20 gal pots. When the room is hot you some times need to add more water.

I personally think the pot is too small and the lighting is small so expect below optimal yield... but still not bad for what appears to be, lets just say.. a less than professional set up.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Okay I've had trouble finding my post so I'm not sure if it has been moved. Sorry it has taken so long to respond and I appreciate your advice Village! Update to your questions:

The pot has holes at the bottom so the water is draining out the bottom. I've only watered it maybe twice since I first posted and she has grown a lot. I guess my watering philosophy at this point is give her like 2/3 gallon of water and let her dry up for a few days. Sorry about the pics, I will try to get the new ones rotated correctly.

I added some CFLS. Right now I have the 300w Galaxy Hydro (actually puts out like 125w), 3 100w CFLS, and 3 75w CFLS.

I also bought a emergency blanket for light reflection, a small upgrade from the foil lol.

I dropped the light down from like 19/5 to 12/12. I'm not sure if thats the best move for this auto flower stain. Any thoughts?

Should I trim any leaves to let lower branches and buds get more light?

I know the pot is a little on the small side. Next time will def use a bigger pot.

These are day approx 37-39 out of a supposedly 8 week life cycle..at this rate I'm guessing it will take at least a couple extra weeks.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Help

sorry it took so long to respond. Had trouble locating my post!

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

So one of the beautiful things about autos is you can leaves the lights on 24 hours so they grow fast all the way through bloom. I have to admit I am running my first autos right now, I have always just used good 'ol normal seeds myself or my friend have breed. I recently picked up my first pack of seeds from Holland and I am a few weeks into my first auto grow.

I would leave the lights on and let her rip. I have a friend in Ohio who loves them because he can plant them early and they are done before the cops start to fly around so he gets away with outdoor grows in the open on his property every summer. That means they bloom just fine in long days. That buddy of mine, his brother in California has been growing autos for years in 24 hour lights and he gets em done in 8 weeks.

As for pruning... You are too new to indoor growing start doing that. It can be helpful if done right at the right times. You are beyond that in the life cycle. You do not want to prune during bloom. Tucking fan leaves on the other hand is highly recommended.

I still think for a first grow it looks good. You are no doubt learning a lot. You wont stop learning for a while. I would recommend just trying to grow simple for your first few grows and slowly work up to things like pruning.


But since I am here lets talk about it a bit. Before I go off the deep end I will just add autos grow too fast and too short to worry about advanced growing techniques. Just grow it until 2 weeks after you want to chop it down and you will be fine (that is a very bad rule of thumb for beginners). Dry it for a long time, the longer the better. Go read up on curing before you harvest. It has been noted that for maximum potency it can take 6 months to cure correctly. Reputable medical outlets in Oregon wont accept anything cured less than 2 months. Everyone has gotten excited and thrown it in the microwave or oven the first time they grow...please show some restraint.


So for pruning the first thing to know is in general you don't want to touch the fan leaves. The fan leaves are where all the magic happens contrary to popular belief. Leaving the technical stuff out of it...the fan leaves generate all of the energy used to grow, not the stalks. If you cut all the fan leaves off a stalk it doesn't go anywhere very fast. The only pruning you really want to consider is called lolloping which is something carried over from fruit tree farmers specifically apple tree farmers lollipop for increased yield. You can look up good videos on that on you tube.

Now the real important stuff... So cutting off fan leaves slows growth for sure but if you cut off the entire branch then it really doesn't matter (lollipop) as it is gone. Every point where you prune, the plant will release hormones to slow growth locally and put the energy into healing that spot. This is the main reason never to prune in bloom. It reduces yield. There is really only one point where you prune to use this hormone to stimulate growth and that is called FIMing (which stands for Fuck I missed). Fiming is trying to cut the very tip off the very top but not cut off the top. Most people miss and cut off the top hence "Fuck I missed". When the hormone is released in the top most branch to repair,... the other branches take off as they now are getting all the energy and you get a fatter shorter plant. I don't FIM I SCROG and Lollipop but you don't have the space for any of that yet. AND I doubt you get much increased yield SCROGing an auto since the life span is set.

Another important point is that when a fan leaf is growing it is producing excess energy for growth of stalks and buds. Once it is fully grown it is not as valuable to the plant. It still works but not as much unused excess is coming out of it. So cutting the younger smaller ones near the top not only causes the hormone to come out (which you don't want) but significantly reduces the available energy for growth. So the only ones you really want to remove are the larger ones at the bottom of the plant which doesn't help much at all.

And lastly (I think) you never want to prune more than about 1/3 of the plant in a week and even that is a lot. More than that and you risk stunting the plant for a while. It will recover but who wants to stunt the plant. Especially if it is an auto with a predetermined shortened life stunting it is a bad idea. And for the same reason don't go in every day and clip a little here and a little there. Then you put the plant into perpetual healing mode. When you do it, you go in and trim back a bit and let it be for a while. Near the end of the life when there may be yellowing you can go ahead and remove ones that just come off gently.

Best of luck but I think for an Auto the best thing is to leave it alone because it will be done before you know it.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Thanks Village!

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Hey Village,

You've been guiding me along during this first indoor grow operation and I need some more help. The plant is looking good and healthy but I think the bud production is very slow. The auto flower life span of the heavy weight seed is supposed to be 8-12 weeks and it is looking way behind.

I know the pot I am using is a little on the small side, but i don't think that is the issue. I've had plants in the same size pots outdoors that have filled out real good in the past.

So I'm guessing it is not getting enough light!

To recap, I'm using the 300w led (I found out it actually only puts out like 130w) and 6 100w cels (actual output only like 23w)

So realistically, I'm guessing it needs way more light to fill out better. This is why I am coming to you. I know you use HPS and I'm looking for something to get real quick that is affordable for my small closet space. I hope it is not too late in the cycle for her.

I'm hoping to get a cheap HPS on amazon prime that can help fill her out. Should I get a 400w or 600w? I want to get the ballast and everything together.

I don't have a huge budget but I am willing to spend like $150-$200. Would you advise against the cheaper ballast/lights on amazon prime? I'm looking to get this bad boy in like two days to throw it on the heavyweight and see if it will help bud production, I am sure it will!

Thanks buddy sorry for the ramble. Please help!

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

I don't know if it was stretching because I had the light on 12/12 or because it isn't getting enough light. Watcha think?

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Well to begin with you are probably right but the flowering time is not fixed. it is X weeks based on optimal environment. depending on the genetics it should continue to bud for a while until it is not getting enough nutes and you can keep pushing her along. But that only works to a point.

I started out using a 250W when I was in college and never got the supper dens buds I wanted. When I got a 400W I got great results but I was good by then. I would never go below that but 600 is technically ideal. The 600W has the best PAR to heat ratio. You can get a 600W very close to the plants, much closer than a 1000W so the PAR rating is really good. and 2 600W is way better than a 1000W...But I am still running a 1000W right now because bigger is always better right?

There are basically 2 kinds of ballasts. You can buy the kind that was used up until "a few years ago" or you can get a modern one. The modern ones are more efficient. So you wont see a change in the electric bill really but you will see better results from the plant as more energy is put into the bulb and less into power conversion and heat in the ballast.

So choice number one do I get a cheapo old Magnetic ballast or a cool fancy Digital ballast? I have both. I prefer the better one and just use the old school one as back up in case. so if you want to go cheap today and upgrade down the road it isn't a total waste and someone will buy a gently used magnetic one off you on Craig's list.

My Fancy one is the top of the line best one you can buy and has a lot of fancy features including I can turn it down to run a 750 or a 600W bulb. I also have a kind of hood and light that allows for me to run it at 600 if I want. I spent around $530 for the hood ballast and bulb. This is obviously not a budget deal just giving you a stake in the ground.

Now lets say you want a fancy Digital ballast then I recommend you avoid any with fans. I happen to be an Electrical engineer and I have designed power supplies and even a ballast. if they are designed correctly with good products they can be air cooled. If they are using fans to cool them they are using inferior design and parts or they are trying to make the housing too small. the real problem is eventually the fans will fail, the ballast will overheat and then your light goes dark.

If you go with a magnetic ballast they are all pretty cheap but really you don't save a ton. I will give a looksy on amazon real quick but by no means am I price shopping around for ya. So I just typed into amazon magnetic ballast and the price is basically the same for a 400, a 600 and a 1000W magnetic ballast at around $100 (600 was actually the cheapest at 99). they have a deal for that plus a cheapo bulb that will work fine for $115 but the $45 bulb will be better.

You can also get a hood for between 80-100. so you can get it the cheaper but digital setup for about 200 and you will have enough light to have it pay for itself in one grow. You can grow 4 plants under that no problem. they also have package deals. for almost the same price.

this would be an awesome beginner setup to get you through a few grows. you could actually grow with this for a long time.
Amazon: Yield Lab 400w HPS+MH Cool Tube Reflector Grow Light Kit

My philosophy is I am putting so much time and effort and money into a grow I want to get the best out of it I can.

That setup above is what is called a single ended bulb or SE HPS / MH setup. That is also old school. The latest technology is Double Ended bulbs or DE HPS and that is incompatible with the SE socket. The ballast will work for you so down the road if you want you can change to DE and not change the ballast.

My ballast on amazon is $200 but mine has been independently studied against the entire field and has the best efficiency and PAR rating. So I get more light to my plants with any bulb than any other setup.

Also the "cool tube" has a glass between the lamp and the plants which believe it or not does inhibit some light. the most optimal setup has the lamp exposed. Some fan covers like I show below have light canceling refraction creating dead spots where the light is reduced but are good when they are right next to another one creating even coverage. I don't know about that one.

Amazon: GYO 400 Watt HPS + MH Grow Light Hood Reflector Digital Ballast Hanger Kit


So that should be enough to think about...let me know if you have any further questions.

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil & LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

I don't think it matters why it stretched unless you plan to use the exact same setup again. This one is what it is. I bet it is both.

A good grower will see the plant at least double in size from when they start bloom to the end. so you need to flip the lights when you are half way to 18 " bellow the light. Sometime they can triple meaning at flip you only have 1/3 the plant height. I do a lot of training so I can control this a bit more.

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Thanks a lot. I went with this. Amazon: Apollo Horticulture GLK400CTAC 400 Watt Grow Light Digital Dimmable HPS MH System

Hopefully this will improve the overall yield! I'm excited to find out.

Thanks again!!

 

[Papageno]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Yup guaranteed if you run that for the entire grow you will double your yield and triple the potency. It is just a waste to do all the work for anything less than a 400W or equivalent. Like I said I used a 250 for years and got by. You can make it work but for just a smidge more it works great!

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Okay so I believe it is around day 59-61ish and it isn't looking too bad. Got the new light up and running for like a 1 1/2 weeks. I think it might be a little nute burnt on the tips? I've tried to take it easy with the nutes but might have outdone it a bit. What do you think Village?

Overall I'm really liking the new light though!! I've got 1 samsara 69 feminized started (not sure if it is an auto) and 6 of my dads outdoor strain (unsexed). Once I chop this one down, should I switch the bulb over from HPS to MH to veg the little ones? I'm wondering if I should incorporate the led somehow but I don't really know if it would make a difference.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[button45321]

Re: Heavyweight Fast & Vast Auto - Soil - LED/CFL - First Indoor Grow - Advice Welcom

Sorry about the sideways pics I don't know how rotate them