Help - Lots of info + pics - please read

[stevegrows]

Hey guys I've pretty much redone all my grow and I have a whole new set up. I cut lots of clones from my previous grow and had flowered them nearly right away in solo cups, transferring them into my tent after getting all my supplies. I started the 12/12 cycle about 3-4 weeks ago and their flowers are really starting to look great. However, numerous problems with the leaves are becoming apparent. Some info on stuff I'm using.

One gallon smart pots
Earth Juice line, using a schedule I found, here it is

----------Cat-----------Micro---------Grow---------Bloom--------Hi-Brix--------Hygrozyme


1veg------5ml----------5ml------------5ml
2veg------5ml---------5ml------------5ml
3veg------5ml---------5ml-------------5ml----------------------5ml-------------2.5ml
4veg------7.5ml--------5ml------------7.5ml----------------------5ml-------------2.5ml
5flwr------10ml---------5ml------------7.5ml---------5ml-----------5ml-------------2.5ml
6flwr------10ml---------5ml------------10ml--------10ml-----------5ml-------------5.0ml
7flwr------10ml---------5ml------------10ml--------10ml-----------10ml------------5.0ml
8flwr------5.0ml--------5ml------------10ml---------15ml----------10ml------------7.5 ml
9flwr------5.0ml--------5ml------------10+ml--------20ml----------10ml------------5ml
10flwr------------------5ml------------10+ml------20-25ml---------10ml------------2.5ml
11flwr------------------5ml------------------------20ml------------10ml
12flwr-------------FLUSH

My first feeding of these plants in their smart pots was 50% strength. I wonder if they need more nutrients, that was about 4 days ago and I am wondering if I should be giving them more food, or opt for straight water.
Runoff PH is ~6.8-7.2 I use potassium hydroxide to adjust the PH of my water.
I had also added an ounce of neem oil on this watering, I have been battling fungus gnats for a while. Their numbers are starting to dwindle rapidly and I hope that I am beginning to win my fight against them.
Soil I'm using is Fox Farms Ocean Forest, I ran out so a few plants unfortunately have been mixed with miracle grow soil as well.
Soil has ~ 1 tablespoon of lime in it to help balance PH levels
400 watt HPS, although I had the MH in for the pictures
Strains are as follows:

Super Cheese
Northern Lights x Skunk #1
White Widow x Big Bud
Amnesia Mystery
OG Kush bagseed
Black Russian

My temps stay fairly stable at 76-80 degrees max, I'm running a 6" carbon filter with a fan as well as a cool tube that's hung about ~20" from the plants. All my plants are 15-20" tall, and as such do not have a huge amount of foliage. This apparent loss of foliage is deeply concerning as that had been my problem with my last grow, leaving me with very little leaves at the end of my grow with not so great bud. You'll notice in only one of these pictures does it look like there has been nutrient burns, but even then I am not sure if that was actually a nutrient burn, as it struck only a few upper / middle leaves.

I'm really trying to do things right, and I hope that is evident in all the information I've provided. Let me know if you want more pictures! I'm just looking for some solid advice on what to do. Correcting problems has been a bitch for me since I've begun to grow and I admittedly need help with it.

 

[Jimmycricket]

lower leaves dieing as you get deeper into flowering is normal for, dare i say most strains. If you got new top growth dieing like that there is a problem. However bottom leaves dieing like that a few weeks into flower is just normal really.

when you let the soil get a tad too dry bottom leaves will also be killed off, just as a plant will usually start drooping from the bottom up if the soil is bone dry.

As a plant gets more in to flower the nitrogen should be lessened and eventually stopped by say week 3-5 typically. This stops many more leaves from growing and instead keeps buds growing. Sometimes when i plant wants extra energy it eats one of its lower and somewhat useless bottom leaves converting that stored energy into more bud. I imagine your feeding line works on this NPK ratio.

 

[Jimmycricket]

Judging from the pics I honestly feel like you dont have any problems.

The only possible small one is letting the top part of the soil get a bit too dry as it tends to dry out first while the lower portions of soil are still moist. Dig into it and see if this is the case if so feel free to lightly moisten the top soil, but not actually water. This will moisten the top again but not further wet the bottom soil.

 

[stevegrows]

lower leaves dieing as you get deeper into flowering is normal for, dare i say most strains. If you got new top growth dieing like that there is a problem. However bottom leaves dieing like that a few weeks into flower is just normal really.

when you let the soil get a tad too dry bottom leaves will also be killed off, just as a plant will usually start drooping from the bottom up if the soil is bone dry.

As a plant gets more in to flower the nitrogen should be lessened and eventually stopped by say week 3-5 typically. This stops many more leaves from growing and instead keeps buds growing. Sometimes when i plant wants extra energy it eats one of its lower and somewhat useless bottom leaves converting that stored energy into more bud. I imagine your feeding line works on this NPK ratio.

Yeah I've actually read a lot into it and have seen that that can be the case sometimes, however with my last crop I literally lost ALL my leaves and the plant didn't get the chance to finish and actually dried out (due to 90 degree temps most likely) But now that I have temps down, I really want to get some fantastic high quality marijuana from this. I've invested a lot, and tbh, I wish I started with this setup. Would have saved me lots of sweat, tears, and cash.

I'm just worried that this N deficiency will creep up to the upper leaves and I will be up shit creek ya know? Once that happens there's just not a whole lot you can do to salvage it, and this will be my last harvest for quite some time as I will be moving out of my current residence

I appreciate the positive support, as for the top soil, would perhaps a light misting be beneficial when I see that the top soil is dry? My one and only concern here is the god damned fungus gnats, but I really think the neem oil decimated their population haha, bastards.

 

[FrankFoster]

Okay so your concern is that the N def is going to hurt the optimal outputs... But your last sentence is about a Neem flush...
That can cause a bit of flux to hurt the plants, and fungus nats hurt the roots --> leaves.

You are noticing a pest causing you trouble... its not terminal, but leave it alone in there for a few days and it will look like a swarm of gnats...

What I would do is add one-drip (a drip) of Micro-NUTE N based fert to your chemicals and forget it.

Those fungal gnats are so nasty that my friend stopped soil for years because these things would pester him, bother him, and would hurt the output silently. All water without soil or algie cuts these things out of the equation.

 

[stevegrows]

Okay so your concern is that the N def is going to hurt the optimal outputs... But your last sentence is about a Neem flush...
That can cause a bit of flux to hurt the plants, and fungus nats hurt the roots --> leaves.

You are noticing a pest causing you trouble... its not terminal, but leave it alone in there for a few days and it will look like a swarm of gnats...

What I would do is add one-drip (a drip) of Micro-NUTE N based fert to your chemicals and forget it.

Those fungal gnats are so nasty that my friend stopped soil for years because these things would pester him, bother him, and would hurt the output silently. All water without soil or algie cuts these things out of the equation.

Luckily I have not seen any more gnats since posting, the last gnat I saw was while I flushed and I have yet to see anymore. I think the neem oil really got em. I do believe you're likely right though, they were probably really damaging the root structure. Looking better now!

 

[Jimmycricket]

Yeah I've actually read a lot into it and have seen that that can be the case sometimes, however with my last crop I literally lost ALL my leaves and the plant didn't get the chance to finish and actually dried out (due to 90 degree temps most likely) But now that I have temps down, I really want to get some fantastic high quality marijuana from this. I've invested a lot, and tbh, I wish I started with this setup. Would have saved me lots of sweat, tears, and cash.

I'm just worried that this N deficiency will creep up to the upper leaves and I will be up shit creek ya know? Once that happens there's just not a whole lot you can do to salvage it, and this will be my last harvest for quite some time as I will be moving out of my current residence

I appreciate the positive support, as for the top soil, would perhaps a light misting be beneficial when I see that the top soil is dry? My one and only concern here is the god damned fungus gnats, but I really think the neem oil decimated their population haha, bastards.

Its not the temps I veg in 120 degree and flower in 105 and its fine. 90 would be mild comparatively.

Indoors I wouldnt recommend doing the light watering to keep the top soil moist (while you are still waiting for mid and lower parts of soil to dry up). Outdoors I often do that, but indoors you will breed fungus gnat heaven. I didnt realize earlier you had gnats, or I wouldnt of suggested dampening the top of soil.

Dont give plants any Nitrogen at all past week 5 or 6 of flower Personally I stop at week 3 or 2. I have tons of lower leaves die off then eventually by harvest most leaves are gone or yellowish. If you give the plants nitro in flower they make leaves instead of buds. While in the first couple weeks of flower thats fine, later on you dont want them to.

 

[FrankFoster]

I disagree with the above about not giving "any" N. I was talking a "drip" to the profile. I agree that for a newbie the statement hold true. But in the lab... I have seen the rules get massaged and broken with prejudice and it really didn't matter.

Say you run a generic 5-3-3 attrition chem profile in veg and grow. That's where you give fert at low rates and let the plant use it up before adding more.

Then you switch to 12 and run a 1-4-4 bounty chem profile. That where every day the plant has all the fert-chem it could possibly use.

Then in the last 3 weeks you run a 0-3-3 attrition and flush (with the one drip of micro).... There would be no fox-tailing and the leaves would not turn yellow until the starve flush at the end.

I agree in theory that you cut out n in bloom. But in practice, you could tweak on it a bit.

After years of practice, my buddy never goes firm on the "newbie" rules.

 

[Scarfinger68]

I disagree with the above about not giving "any" N. I was talking a "drip" to the profile. I agree that for a newbie the statement hold true. But in the lab... I have seen the rules get massaged and broken with prejudice and it really didn't matter.

Say you run a generic 5-3-3 attrition chem profile in veg and grow. That's where you give fert at low rates and let the plant use it up before adding more.

Then you switch to 12 and run a 1-4-4 bounty chem profile. That where every day the plant has all the fert-chem it could possibly use.

Then in the last 3 weeks you run a 0-3-3 attrition and flush (with the one drip of micro).... There would be no fox-tailing and the leaves would not turn yellow until the starve flush at the end.

I agree in theory that you cut out n in bloom. But in practice, you could tweak on it a bit.

After years of practice, my buddy never goes firm on the "newbie" rules.

After years of practice, my buddy never goes firm on the "newbie" rules

If I had a dollar for every time someone said it had to be this way... and then someone else says they do it differently.

Flush/don't flush
Plant seed pointy end up/pointy end down
Superthrive yes/no
Molasses yes/no
Check PH yes/ oh..well I never do and if you in soil you don't need to? BS!
You need this much light/no you don't
You need this ferts/no you don't
Don't let the soil top dry/I let it dry all the time...Mist the top of the soil? what?
The list goes on and on.

No disrespect intended. There isn't one perfect way that works for everyone. **Not sure why I kind of went on a rant there**


I say...
Do whatever works for you! and +Reps for everyone!!