HID lamps vs LED

[Greenlizard]

Looks like some replies are comparing LED "grow lights" to HID lighting.
That is not the question he asked. He is asking for advice comparing regular 20 watt household led bulbs to HPS.
There is no comparison between the two. The HID is for growing cannabis. The 20 watt led is for reading a book in bed.
So you don't want to spend too much up front, you want low electricity bills, and you want killer weed...
You need CMH (Ceramic Metal Halide). 315 watts and produces like a 600 watt HPS. Bulbs last 2 years and can do both the veg, and flower. 3100K I recommend.
Good luck.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

oh i see, i tho the only use for it was regulating the power.

Used to be only big heavy transformers, but now you can get digital.

 

[SteveJasmine]

@alexandertheok I suggest you go on YouTube and watch some gro room build videos. It will help answer many of your questions.

 

[Weaselcracker]

CMH (Ceramic Metal Halide). 315 watts and produces like a 600 watt HPS

Hey Greenlizard. Just a comment on that. This claim has been repeated a bunch in the last couple years, but as far as I can see from where there is actual side by side growing using the two - it’s just not true. They’re good bulbs though- just not quite as good as some of the pro-CMH fans have been claiming. A 315 does beat out a 400w HID though.

 

[Greenlizard]

Hey Greenlizard. Just a comment on that. This claim has been repeated a bunch in the last couple years, but as far as I can see from where there is actual side by side growing using the two - it’s just not true. They’re good bulbs though- just not quite as good as some of the pro-CMH fans have been claiming. A 315 does beat out a 400w HID though.

Yes, it is a debatable topic when it comes to the 315 CMH vs the 600 HPS. I do believe that a 600 HPS would gain a larger yield due to coverage and penetration but other than the slight advantage in yield, the extra power consumption outweighs the advantage in my opinion.

 

[Mars Hydro]

i don't wanna try leds, considering i've already bought 7 standard leds for veg

I totally understand, there are many growers who are just like you, had bad experience on LED grow lights. some are growing bad because they using led grow lights with seller's false advertising, using some so called 1000w (actual around 150w) to replace the real 1000w lights, you can imagine the result. Some with not so good spectrum so only grow low yield.

 

[10gal]

get a 1k hps that is made in north america or europe
then you can be sure youre going to grow some good weed

then get chinese leds if you want to experiment

 

[SteveJasmine]

get a 1k hps that is made in north america or europe
then you can be sure youre going to grow some good weed

then get chinese leds if you want to experiment

Yea bad idea in a grow space that small. It's only 1m by 1m. Be better off with 400watt

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Yea bad idea in a grow space that small. It's only 1m by 1m. Be better off with 400watt

1000w digital HID can run many spectrums by changing bulbs, and can run @ 600, 700, 1000 and 1150 Watts. A 600 Watt HID can run at 50%, 75% and 100% power. It's nice to have too much and dial it down, and not nice to have too little!

 

[Lancashire farmer]

hello, i was wondering, which lights are better for growing, especally for flowring. HID or standard house LEDS (in my case best i could get is 20w=150w)


what are the pros and cons?

i saw that the HID are super cheap compared to professional growing leds, and even cheap compared to normal household leds.

what would yield me more, i currently have 8 20w=150w leds. would buying a hid lamp be better? if so, what specs should i get.

no one ever recommands them as far as i saw on the forum. but from what i've read they seem way better than clf/led (i'm talking about normal leds not growing ones)


also which hid is best for growing? i know there is 3 types

Just my 2pence.....
Definatly don't bother with the leds, they will be nothing but a headache.

Personally id get a ajustable 600w and at least a 5inch extractor fan. You can get away with vegging on low then turn it up threw flower. this should save you alot on the leccy. Youve stated prices in euro, you should be able to get all of that for less than 200e.
600w is ideal for flowering in 1m x 1m , you can get away with 400w if needs be. ​

 

[TorturedSoul]

Definatly don't bother with the leds, they will be nothing but a headache.

Probably depends much on the specific LED product, and a little on a combination of the grow room's setup / layout and the gardener's methods/style. There are certainly some pretty effective LED products in the marketplace these days, and not all of them are frightfully expensive. Personally, while I'll probably always have a "soft spot" for HID grow lighting, I can already see some benefits in using LEDs. Multiple lower-powered sources of light (in comparison to larger-powered single-source lighting) can provide a reduction in shadowed areas. And LEDs produce their output in one direction, as opposed to a spherical output pattern - which may be considered a good thing or a bad thing, lol, again depending on the setup of the grow room.

Both types of lighting can be said to have their positives and negatives, I suppose.

 

[Lancashire farmer]

Probably depends much on the specific LED product, and a little on a combination of the grow room's setup / layout and the gardener's methods/style. There are certainly some pretty effective LED products in the marketplace these days, and not all of them are frightfully expensive. Personally, while I'll probably always have a "soft spot" for HID grow lighting, I can already see some benefits in using LEDs. Multiple lower-powered sources of light (in comparison to larger-powered single-source lighting) can provide a reduction in shadowed areas. And LEDs produce their output in one direction, as opposed to a spherical output pattern - which may be considered a good thing or a bad thing, lol, again depending on the setup of the grow room.

Both types of lighting can be said to have their positives and negatives, I suppose.

Yeah i agree with you on all of your points on leds, its a minefield out there for people that dont understand light efficency. the issue is then furthered with this crazy false marketing.

My post was in referance to the ops first post where he asked wether he should use his household leds or a hid (and if hid what one).

 

[SteveJasmine]

Excellent point, op was concerned with initial outlay costs which was why I recommended the 400watt further up the thread. You're right, 1000 would be ideal though

 

[Highbrixbotany2018]

If you mean household led like your popping the top off the expose the quantum board? Comparing 600watts of that to a 600watt hid. I’d want to see the YouTube video. Lol. 3000k at 1000wAtts(actual wall draw watts) would grow buds. As far as price hid would be the cheapest upfront apples
To apples. Hps/ metal dimmable downside is heat) power isn’t really a downside as long as you buy a dimmable ballast and only use the full wattage and spectrum minimally.
But that being said hps wastes the electricity. The light isn’t 100%absorbable by the plant.
White led is ppfd and spectrum are better.
If you wanted to compare Quantum boards (Mars/hlg/alibaba) to hps it’s the quantum boards all day(less heat, not customizable, better light spread and if you know what to order and where can be as cheap or cheaper) . Heat is so hard to deal
With when balancing vpd in a plant that responds to everything.
Ppfd
Vpd
Google those.
Ledgardener compares lots of stuff.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

If you mean household led like your popping the top off the expose the quantum board? Comparing 600watts of that to a 600watt hid. I’d want to see the YouTube video. Lol. 3000k at 1000wAtts(actual wall draw watts) would grow buds. As far as price hid would be the cheapest upfront apples
To apples. Hps/ metal dimmable downside is heat) power isn’t really a downside as long as you buy a dimmable ballast and only use the full wattage and spectrum minimally.
But that being said hps wastes the electricity. The light isn’t 100%absorbable by the plant.
White led is ppfd and spectrum are better.
If you wanted to compare Quantum boards (Mars/hlg/alibaba) to hps it’s the quantum boards all day(less heat, not customizable, better light spread and if you know what to order and where can be as cheap or cheaper) . Heat is so hard to deal
With when balancing vpd in a plant that responds to everything.
Ppfd
Vpd
Google those.
Ledgardener compares lots of stuff.

Heat isn't a problem everywhere. Most northern basements are fine with HID most of the year. I'm at 45N and 3700', and I use 'em for heat sources.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Double post, sorry.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm at 45N and 3700', and I use 'em for heat sources

Yeah I’m 10° north of you and my whole operation relies on heat from the bulbs. No way I am putting a heater in my grow. I have some quantum boards but HPS is the workhorse.

On top of that, I’ve yet to see much led-bud to make me feel jealous, except in a few cases where people have spent far more on panels than I ever want to.

People like to talk like HID is obsolete. They’ve actually been talking that way since the first super expensive blurples came out and were clearly growing third rate bud. Someday it will be true, but it is definitely not now. HID continues to grow top notch bud for a low price and should be an easy choice for anyone starting out on a budget. Not so good if you live somewhere hot, but last I checked there’s nobody like that around where I live.

 

[Ravski]

Hi Alex, HID though cheaper, but their electric cost are higher as well, plus their light loss rate is pretty high, you cannot use one bulb for long time, and need to purchase reflector, blast as well, so why not try LEDs, in the beginning it might cost you a little more, but later will save more for you.

I would suggest our TS 1000, it is around 150w, but it can replace a 250w HID easily.So at this point, you save 100w energy. What is more, the spectrum is better than HID's so you will get higher quality harvest as well,

Mars TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 24, 2019

Mars Hydro TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 21, 2019

How hot does the hood get and what is optimised height in flower

 

[10gal]

People like to talk like HID is obsolete

LED merchants and their fan boys***

 

[Highbrixbotany2018]

Led and top bin cobs grow rock hard nugs. But if you need a heater it’s a waste for sure. That being said not all hid are alike just like
Led. Blurple s are not Samsung’s 301b diodes. But price goes up depending on if you build
It or they do. I built
Mine so have been able to keep the price relatively low. But I run an AC unit. Lol. I avoid heat. So both have ups and downs. Apples to apples it just where you live and electricity costs that make the choice.