HID lamps vs LED

[alexandertheok]

hello, i was wondering, which lights are better for growing, especally for flowring. HID or standard house LEDS (in my case best i could get is 20w=150w)


what are the pros and cons?

i saw that the HID are super cheap compared to professional growing leds, and even cheap compared to normal household leds.

what would yield me more, i currently have 8 20w=150w leds. would buying a hid lamp be better? if so, what specs should i get.

no one ever recommands them as far as i saw on the forum. but from what i've read they seem way better than clf/led (i'm talking about normal leds not growing ones)


also which hid is best for growing? i know there is 3 types

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

What is your electric cost? HID is cheaper to get and more expensive to operate. What size grow space? I run HID, and like it. New, complete DE HPS/MH 1000W digital adjustable wattage for $200. Welcome.

 

[alexandertheok]

What is your electric cost? HID is cheaper to get and more expensive to operate. What size grow space? I run HID, and like it. New, complete DE HPS/MH 1000W digital adjustable wattage for $200. Welcome.

i grow in 1 square meter(maybe less, i'll mesure it Tomorrow), around 4 plants i guess, but it depends. i read that 250w is enough for 4 plants, and i've read that it gives the highest 1g/w. also i've read that sodium ones are better for flowering.

i can get the 250w for less than 20 euros on most websites like amazon

 

[Mars Hydro]

Hi Alex, HID though cheaper, but their electric cost are higher as well, plus their light loss rate is pretty high, you cannot use one bulb for long time, and need to purchase reflector, blast as well, so why not try LEDs, in the beginning it might cost you a little more, but later will save more for you.

I would suggest our TS 1000, it is around 150w, but it can replace a 250w HID easily.So at this point, you save 100w energy. What is more, the spectrum is better than HID's so you will get higher quality harvest as well,

Mars TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 24, 2019

Mars Hydro TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 21, 2019

 

[Nunyabiz]

LEDs are much better.
Just not regular old household LED bulbs.
If you have $200 to spend you can get proper LED

 

[TorturedSoul]

i grow in 1 square meter(maybe less, i'll mesure it Tomorrow), around 4 plants i guess, but it depends. i read that 250w is enough for 4 plants, and i've read that it gives the highest 1g/w. also i've read that sodium ones are better for flowering.

You'd want a 600-watt HPS for a square meter of grow space, not a 250-watt one.

 

[alexandertheok]

Hi Alex, HID though cheaper, but their electric cost are higher as well, plus their light loss rate is pretty high, you cannot use one bulb for long time, and need to purchase reflector, blast as well, so why not try LEDs, in the beginning it might cost you a little more, but later will save more for you.

I would suggest our TS 1000, it is around 150w, but it can replace a 250w HID easily.So at this point, you save 100w energy. What is more, the spectrum is better than HID's so you will get higher quality harvest as well,

Mars TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 24, 2019

Mars Hydro TS 1000

• Mars Hydro
• Jul 21, 2019

i don't wanna try leds, considering i've already bought 7 standard leds for veg

 

[alexandertheok]

You'd want a 600-watt HPS for a square meter of grow space, not a 250-watt one.

problem is, 600 is way too much power. 90KW for one grow to be exact, or about 250 euros....way out of my reach. can i get away with 250w? it's just that the tent i build is big, i don't actually plan on filling it up

 

[TorturedSoul]

Yeah, if you stick it in a corner. Hanging some kind of bright white partition to confine that light to a five square foot area (maybe up to seven-and-a-half if growing autoflowering strains exclusively, because you'd be flowering under 18 hours of light per day, maybe 20 (maybe even more, but I wouldn't personally recommend it) would help a lot. So would trading your tent for one that better matches your total lighting output. If you went with a 400-watt HPS, it'd be adequate for eight square feet, possibly up to twelve if growing autoflowering strains (flowering @ 18 hours per day). My estimates are assuming that size area confined by highly reflective walls, no high sativa percentage genetics, et cetera.

BtW, as others have mentioned, the LED grow lights are as to those screw-in household LED lights as an Aston Martin is... to an old pair of tennis shoes .

 

[alexandertheok]

Yeah, if you stick it in a corner. Hanging some kind of bright white partition to confine that light to a five square foot area (maybe up to seven-and-a-half if growing autoflowering strains exclusively, because you'd be flowering under 18 hours of light per day, maybe 20 (maybe even more, but I wouldn't personally recommend it) would help a lot. So would trading your tent for one that better matches your total lighting output. If you went with a 400-watt HPS, it'd be adequate for eight square feet, possibly up to twelve if growing autoflowering strains (flowering @ 18 hours per day). My estimates are assuming that size area confined by highly reflective walls, no high sativa percentage genetics, et cetera.

BtW, as others have mentioned, the LED grow lights are as to those screw-in household LED lights as an Aston Martin is... to an old pair of tennis shoes .

well i know they are not good compared, but i don't really see the issue, people have been growing with clf for decades, and now all of the sudden if someone grows with clf he gets told he will do nothing. which is absolutly not true...

why no high sativa? is there a difference?

if i go for the 400w one could that be enough?

what's better, many plants with a smaller pot or few with a big pot? in terms of yield?

for how long can i use the leds in VEG?

yep the area the sides and the bottom have reflective materials. exepct the roof. since i'm growing autos i don't need to control light. so i kept it for ventilation.

 

[TorturedSoul]

people have been growing with clf

Sure, but they generally grow with lots of CFL bulbs. (Or produce small harvests.)

why no high sativa? is there a difference?

It's just that, as a class, they tend to need more light than indicas do. Most of the original sativa genetics evolved near the equator, where outdoor light levels are high. You can grow them under less than an optimum amount of light, you'll just take a hit at harvest time (and your buds will be skimpier).

if i go for the 400w one could that be enough?

See my previous post for my area (size) recommendations for that.

what's better, many plants with a smaller pot or few with a big pot? in terms of yield?

That's more of a personal choice than anything. Fewer plants means a longer vegetative growth period to produce the same amount that you can get with more plants (grown for a shorter amount of time before switching to flower).

for how long can i use the leds in VEG?

Not sure I understand that question. Most folks don't stop using their lights, lol.

i'm growing autos

In that case, see my "...for growing autoflowering strains" comments in my previous reply. Also, for your question about big vs. small containers, you can't continue the vegetative growth phase indefinitely with autoflowers, because they don't work like photoperiodic strains (which is why they're called autoflowers), so once you've passed a certain point, a larger container won't increase yield. But that point varies by strain (and other factors).

 

[alexandertheok]

Sure, but they generally grow with lots of CFL bulbs. (Or produce small harvests.)



It's just that, as a class, they tend to need more light than indicas do. Most of the original sativa genetics evolved near the equator, where outdoor light levels are high. You can grow them under less than an optimum amount of light, you'll just take a hit at harvest time (and your buds will be skimpier).



See my previous post for my area (size) recommendations for that.



That's more of a personal choice than anything. Fewer plants means a longer vegetative growth period to produce the same amount that you can get with more plants (grown for a shorter amount of time before switching to flower).



Not sure I understand that question. Most folks don't stop using their lights, lol.



In that case, see my "...for growing autoflowering strains" comments in my previous reply. Also, for your question about big vs. small containers, you can't continue the vegetative growth phase indefinitely with autoflowers, because they don't work like photoperiodic strains (which is why they're called autoflowers), so once you've passed a certain point, a larger container won't increase yield. But that point varies by strain (and other factors).

i meant, since the leds i have produce light better suited for VEG than the sodium one, i wanna use them for veg. i have 7 22=160w lights. and i wanna know how long can i use them until the plants become too big for them, and when they do i will switch over to the sodium lamp.

also will i need a fan? the place is very ventilated. it's a big garage, and like i said the tent has a open top

 

[alexandertheok]

honestly i'm thinking about building aPVC tent, and just put a 250w light in there. how big should i make it for a 250w? 70x70?

 

[labexperiment]

i grow in 1 square meter(maybe less, i'll mesure it Tomorrow), around 4 plants i guess, but it depends. i read that 250w is enough for 4 plants, and i've read that it gives the highest 1g/w. also i've read that sodium ones are better for flowering.

i can get the 250w for less than 20 euros on most websites like amazon

Looked for a 250 watt on amazon and found bulbs for around 30 Canadian, is that what you are referring to? If so that is for just a bulb, if you want the bulb to function you will need a ballast(around 100 Canadian) as well and a hood(around 60 Canadian) to reflect the light down to the plants. If it is the bulb you are referring to, the bulb will not fit into a standard household light socket.

 

[SteveJasmine]

@alexandertheok
Hey mate, I'm going to weigh in here and address a few things.
If I was setting up your grow I would forget about the household LEDs. They are suboptimal and won't give you the results deserve for your efforts.
With the size of your space and since overheating won't be an issue I would go with a 400watt HPS if you don't want to buy an expensive duel purpose LED. in larger spaces, some people like to grow using a combination. There is a grow space that uses 4X 1800watt LEDs with a 400watt HPS between each pair of LEDs. This method is extremely effective.

 

[TorturedSoul]

honestly i'm thinking about building aPVC tent, and just put a 250w light in there. how big should i make it for a 250w? 70x70?

That area would be fine, but since you're planning on building your own custom tent, you should wait until you buy your reflector; it'll probably produce a non-square rectangular light footprint, and it'll work better if your space matches that shape - but the 4900 cm², while just a little bit large for flowering photoperiodic strains, should work fine for the autoflowering plants that you've indicated you'll be growing.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

315Watt CMH for efficiency @ 3100K, though I run 1000W DE MH/HPS over a 4'X4' Scrog. They are adjustable, so you don't have to run them at 1000W for the whole grow. You can increase the light as you need it, and with HPS/MH you can customize your spectrum as you go from veg through bloom by changing bulbs.

 

[alexandertheok]

Looked for a 250 watt on amazon and found bulbs for around 30 Canadian, is that what you are referring to? If so that is for just a bulb, if you want the bulb to function you will need a ballast(around 100 Canadian) as well and a hood(around 60 Canadian) to reflect the light down to the plants. If it is the bulb you are referring to, the bulb will not fit into a standard household light socket.

can get a hood for 15 and a bulb for 20, at most growshop and websites like amazon. why would i need a ballast? i'll run it at full power.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

can get a hood for 15 and a bulb for 20, why would i need a ballast?

To fire any HID bulb.

 

[alexandertheok]

To fire any HID bulb.

oh i see, i tho the only use for it was regulating the power.