Home Made LED Panels

[Techhead]

Ok Pan4, sounds like you have a handle on the RGB's. If you do go that route I think everybody out here would like to know how it works, and it may be good for you if you do to look into what they are using to drive those spot lights. I would have to think they have 25watters in those or bigger. Might be just the drivers you'll need.
What kind of amp is it? I do have my sorces for those things, and maybe I could help a little.

 

[pan4gold49]

Techhead most of the drivers for the high power leds run a 20khz square wave they tend to run pulse width close to the duty cycle of the leds. This allows for the maximum brightness without burning out the junction. In this way you can run below the thermal envelope and drive the leds to the maximum output.

Pan4

 

[Techhead]

Well Pan4 I looked at some of the LED spot lights for stage use. Although I've not seen a schematic, what I have found out is they are useing red green blues, not RGB's, and from what I can tell they are 1 watters. Having said that, I'm sure you're right about pulsing them for max output. Since I do work on lighting products I'm sure some day I'll get to see one up close. Still I'd like to get a prism and see what colors do come through it with a RGB led. I think we have left a few people behind on this thread though. I do hope anybody following this has learned a few things along the way. One thing I did notice is the price of LED spot lighting is running a lot cheaper than the LED pannels they sell to the growers. Not fair.

 

[TorturedSoul]

And you expected it to be any different lol?

Look at the cost of stuff that is available in more places than just a hydro store - the hydro shop is generally more expensive.

Shoot, look what people will pay for a tent, timer, light, and a box of nutes lmfao. Or a plastic bucket, some air line, and an aquarium pump.

 

[pan4gold49]

Well Pan4 I looked at some of the LED spot lights for stage use. Although I've not seen a schematic, what I have found out is they are useing red green blues, not RGB's, and from what I can tell they are 1 watters. Having said that, I'm sure you're right about pulsing them for max output. Since I do work on lighting products I'm sure some day I'll get to see one up close. Still I'd like to get a prism and see what colors do come through it with a RGB led. I think we have left a few people behind on this thread though. I do hope anybody following this has learned a few things along the way. One thing I did notice is the price of LED spot lighting is running a lot cheaper than the LED pannels they sell to the growers. Not fair.

Man that is crazy.

Pan4

 

[WheeloFortune]

tech, i think that the rgb's are only 3 wavelengths not full spetrum. the different apparent color spectrum that it can reproduce is just the balance between the three colors (on tv white=RGB)

the white led's (they come in cool and warm now too) have full spectrums though. (kinda heavy in the greens usually, unfortunately).

if i were building one i would try to mix my spectrum up, but focuse on the good, and minimize the crap wavelengths,

 

[WheeloFortune]

i wish they made red white and blue leds. 5 watters.

 

[Techhead]

I do believe Wheelofortune is right about the RGB's, the color blend is for human eyes. The color seen would be harmonics of the blend of colors, and a prism should prove this out. As far as getting 5 watt LED's in the colors needed, yes they do have them. look into the Ledengin's for one, but I'm sure there are others as well. At Mouser, just one vender, they have these under part #'s 897-LZ110R205 for deep red, 897-LZ110CW05 for cool white, 897-LZ110B205 for blue, and 897-LZ110R105 for red. These part #'s are all for 5 watt LED's mounted on stars, but you can get the same parts without the star, but it's a little differant number, and a lot cheaper. Only buy these without the star if you know how to deal with surface mount devices. Go to the mouser web page and put any of these numbers into the search box, then go to the data sheet, then hit on the emitter link to see what they run at. To see other products just put something like 5w led in the search box, and use the filters to sort though them. You might try Digi-Key for this as well, but there search is a little harder to use.

 

[pan4gold49]

And you expected it to be any different lol?

Look at the cost of stuff that is available in more places than just a hydro store - the hydro shop is generally more expensive.

Shoot, look what people will pay for a tent, timer, light, and a box of nutes lmfao. Or a plastic bucket, some air line, and an aquarium pump.

Yes I know what you mean about the Hydro store. I buy cheap e-bay and the only time I go to the Hydro store ripoff is for Hydroton.

tech, i think that the rgb's are only 3 wavelengths not full spetrum. the different apparent color spectrum that it can reproduce is just the balance between the three colors (on tv white=RGB)

the white led's (they come in cool and warm now too) have full spectrums though. (kinda heavy in the greens usually, unfortunately).

if i were building one i would try to mix my spectrum up, but focuse on the good, and minimize the crap wavelengths,

Since the advent of OLED technology and the new doping junction techniques rgb leds are not comprised of three chips in a single unit. Now there a single chip unit that really can produce a single wavelength this was driven by the need to have higher resolution.

i wish they made red white and blue leds. 5 watters.

They do in e-bay a place out of Hong Kong.

Pan4

 

[Techhead]

Thanks Pan4, I really haven't looked that closely into RGB LED's, so everything you say is news to me. I've been in the audio world, not the vidio world. Electronics these days is differant than in the past. It used to be if you knew something you knew most of everything, but now it would be hard to have that much information in one brain. So I'm learning too.

 

[WheeloFortune]

pan, how do they produce the different colors, 3 different gap lengths or a continuously variable gap? or something else. can you tune it to any wavelength you want? now youve made me have to go and do some reading. thanks alot. lol.

I'm def not an led expert, but i know circuits and diodes well enough.

 

[pan4gold49]

It has to do with the new Organic leds. I am trying to find the article.
Check this Out.
Neutral-white 72W emitter perfect for veg.

A multi-chip integrated compact white LED single emitter with an import power of 72.84 W, producing a total of 6543 lm at a CCT of 4455K, has also reached a record lumen efficiency of 89.8 lm/W, according to NIST's report.

The measurement was again performed after a thermal equilibrium was reached at 37 deg.C. Thus, the efficiency was estimated to be high as 95 lm/W if the LED junction temperature is kept at 25 deg.C.

The optical power for each bare die is about 260 mW. However, if 571 mW blue chips are used for the present emitter, the lumen output could be as high as 197 lm/W.

Warm-white 18W emitter good for flowering.

A multi-chip integrated warm-white LED compact single emitter with an input power of 18.62W, producing a total of 1444 lm at a CRI of 91.3 and a CCT of 3928K, reached a lumen efficiency of 77.4 lm/W, according to the NIST report.

I ran a crossed these going to work on getting samples.

Pan4

 

[TorturedSoul]

4455K is the best color temperature for vegetation? I would have thought a couple thousand degrees K higher.

And the 3928K seems a little high for peak flowering.

But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done a lot of experimentation with different color temperatures. (I'm still trying to figure out if the better flowering spectrum of a 360(?)-watt HPS conversion bulb in a 400-watt MH fixture would be better for flowering even with the worse hit in lumens than just using the 400-watt MH bulb. A friend asked me and I have no clue.)

But the efficiencies on what you posted look great and I would assume if one were to build their own they would be able to play with optimum placement and "blending" of different ones so that whatever height they determined was the best for growth (flowering) would be the exact height that all the bulbs blended together to avoid "spot-lighting."

This thread is really interesting! Unfortunately, most of it is generally over my head but I'm trying to keep up (from a spectator's standpoint lol).

 

[Techhead]

All that data is a lot to take in at once even for me. I was think of the RGB led pannels though. I was thinking if a guy could dial in for each frequency they wanted to have working, and not the sunrise to sunset thing, could be quit interesting. In other words, if you had some going blue, while others go red, and some deep red, and like that, then have them change colors it could realy work. In my mind what it would look like is a Cuddle Fish (or is cuttle, or am I close to what there name is). Kind of a pulsating, constantly changing light pannel. If I had something like that I most likely would find myself sitting in my flower room watching it like TV. Just think how everyplant would get what it is looking for because there would be no HOT spots of one color over another.
For me though, I'm not going to change what I'm doing with the single color LED's.
Having said that, I have decided to upgrade to a 420 watt system. That's double of what I have already. I have three pannels each running one amp of current, but I want to double it to three pannels running 2 amps each. Right now I have 20 reds, and 6 blues per pannel but want to expand the frequency's used. Here's the question. Would adding 6 deep reds, and 6 cool whites, plus another 13 reds be anywhere close to the right mix? This would bring the count per pannel to 33 reds, 6 blues, 6 cool whites, and 6 deep reds. I haven't bought anything yet, so if anybody out there knows if I should go stronger on any one of these please let me know.

 

[pan4gold49]

4455K is the best color temperature for vegetation? I would have thought a couple thousand degrees K higher.

And the 3928K seems a little high for peak flowering.

But I'll be the first to admit that I haven't done a lot of experimentation with different color temperatures. (I'm still trying to figure out if the better flowering spectrum of a 360(?)-watt HPS conversion bulb in a 400-watt MH fixture would be better for flowering even with the worse hit in lumens than just using the 400-watt MH bulb. A friend asked me and I have no clue.)

But the efficiencies on what you posted look great and I would assume if one were to build their own they would be able to play with optimum placement and "blending" of different ones so that whatever height they determined was the best for growth (flowering) would be the exact height that all the bulbs blended together to avoid "spot-lighting."

This thread is really interesting! Unfortunately, most of it is generally over my head but I'm trying to keep up (from a spectator's standpoint lol).

Yes 2700 k is the best for flowering and 6500k is best for veg. I have been using an Eye Hortilux blue enhanced 4200k for testing it works well. But I am going to get a 600w hps and move one of 400w to the veg room. So I would run a conversion bulb just check the lumen output. As for the led array the parts that I showed have a good practical application in such array when mixed with other color temp's in the array.

All that data is a lot to take in at once even for me. I was think of the RGB led pannels though. I was thinking if a guy could dial in for each frequency they wanted to have working, and not the sunrise to sunset thing, could be quit interesting. In other words, if you had some going blue, while others go red, and some deep red, and like that, then have them change colors it could realy work. In my mind what it would look like is a Cuddle Fish (or is cuttle, or am I close to what there name is). Kind of a pulsating, constantly changing light pannel. If I had something like that I most likely would find myself sitting in my flower room watching it like TV. Just think how everyplant would get what it is looking for because there would be no HOT spots of one color over another.
For me though, I'm not going to change what I'm doing with the single color LED's.
Having said that, I have decided to upgrade to a 420 watt system. That's double of what I have already. I have three pannels each running one amp of current, but I want to double it to three pannels running 2 amps each. Right now I have 20 reds, and 6 blues per pannel but want to expand the frequency's used. Here's the question. Would adding 6 deep reds, and 6 cool whites, plus another 13 reds be anywhere close to the right mix? This would bring the count per pannel to 33 reds, 6 blues, 6 cool whites, and 6 deep reds. I haven't bought anything yet, so if anybody out there knows if I should go stronger on any one of these please let me know.

It's sounding very good what you have chosen for your array. I would go with it and like to see the panel once its done. Good luck.

Pan4

 

[Truck Nuts]

this appears to be vaporware

It appears to be an experiment...

Whats with the paranoia good sir?

 

[WheeloFortune]

hey tech,

just a thought, and tortured soul mentioned this point on my thread i little while ago.

i guess UV light can increase resin production. . . if you are going to flower under led, do you think you might benefit from throwing in a few UV led's? it might help with such concentrated spectrums coming from the other led's. you might be missing needed UV.

just a thought.

 

[pan4gold49]

hey tech,

just a thought, and tortured soul mentioned this point on my thread i little while ago.

i guess UV light can increase resin production. . . if you are going to flower under led, do you think you might benefit from throwing in a few UV led's? it might help with such concentrated spectrums coming from the other led's. you might be missing needed UV.

just a thought.

Good point Wheel.
I have some of those in my panels I covered it in the first part of the thread. Also my lights have an enhanced spectrum that has uv in it.

Pan4

 

[Techhead]

Yes WheelO, I have seen this too, and I would really like to incorperate UV's into the mix, but at this time I'm going to spend my money on the deep reds and cool whites, and more of the reds. When I do this I was going to upgrade my power supply, so it will be ready for the next step. The cost of the UV's isn't in my budget at this time as they are very expencive. Sure would be nice though.

 

[WheeloFortune]

sorry pan, i forgot.

freaking stoners.