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- #381
How I perform low stress training on my plants: Lots of pics!
- Thread starter InTheShed
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SoGnotSOG321
Well-Known Member
Had a tot and I'll post my pic and see what's what hehehe. 
One more
Last one I missed the mark getting her over. I had low filled the pot and now she's resting in the soil..shooting roots down and anchored. I can only cover it and keep everything propped up with the foam to keep it off the dirt. Hope this comes useful to your thread awesome as it is already.
One more
Last one I missed the mark getting her over. I had low filled the pot and now she's resting in the soil..shooting roots down and anchored. I can only cover it and keep everything propped up with the foam to keep it off the dirt. Hope this comes useful to your thread awesome as it is already.
- Thread starter
- #383
Looks good to me! I think my only suggestion would be to tie the lower branches down so they're a bit higher than the top rather than lower. If the top is higher it's still a top to the plant.
And great idea with the foam! Just be sure to keep it dry when you water.
Nice bush you have growing there SNS.
And great idea with the foam! Just be sure to keep it dry when you water.
Nice bush you have growing there SNS.
Great post im looking to learn more about lst and scrogGreetings all! I've had members ask about how I do my LST (low stress training) on my plants so I thought I would do a pictorial on it. My pics are of two different plants but don't let that confuse you. It's just easier to demonstrate that way.
Let's discuss the theory behind LST for a minute. Cannabis plants grow up to the sun. They have a top (apical) cola and side branching. Most of the growth hormones (auxins) go to that apical cola, which is why an untrained plant often has a beautiful huge bud on top and then progressively smaller buds as you head toward the soil. Topping a plant tells the plant that there is no longer an apical cola (damage alert!!!) so it needs to send the auxins to other branches to assure its chances to pass on its genetics. You then end up with two tops from that one.
That's great for photo plants which you can grow as big as you want them to be before you flip them, but autos are on an internal clock. Now many growers top their autos and get great results. I don't. I try to stress autos as little as possible so I do LST.
LST is a method for tricking the plant into thinking it no longer has an apical cola without actually removing it. The method involves pulling the top down flat so that it's not higher than the rest of the plant. The plant still thinks it's lost its apical cola and begins to send the growth hormones to the rest of the branches, but there is no recovery time as there is with topping because nothing has been cut.
As each of the lower branches grows in response, it gets tied down toward the outside of the pot, allowing light and air to get to the rest of the plant, and forcing the plant to continue to evenly spread the auxins.
Let's look at some pics!
I used to start bending the plant when it was much younger. Now I wait until the stem will be close to even with the top edge of the pot after it's bent. This was my Blueberry Auto from last summer.
You can see that I used a rock to hold the stem in place as I bent it. It's important that the base of the stem be upright so you don't put stress on the stem/root connection. Now I use a rock as well as a tie holding the stem in the opposite direction to the bend. This is my current Blue Treacle:
Let's watch the progress of the Blueberry Auto as it goes from the first pic to full buddage!
You can see how I have begun to take the side branching and lay it out flat as well - away from any other growth - using the sticks and twist ties. Flattening each branch forces the plant to spread the auxins equally:
Once the branches outgrow the internal size of the pot, I tie the branches to the edge:
Once they get this far into flower there is no more to be done except watch them grow! I do not untie them until I harvest the plant.
Here is the Blueberry getting close to the end. Can you spot the apical cola? This produced over 4 ounces of dried buds. Not too shabby!
Now let's look at an auto I have currently going into the earliest stages of flower. This one is a Blue Treacle, shown in the second pic with the white wire holding the stem in place opposite the bend. Here is a top view:
And here it is from the side. You can see how flat the top is:
This plant thinks there is no apical cola and is trying its damnedest to develop a new one. Not going to let that happen! I want each cola to be the same size in the end, similar to the last Blueberry pic.
Time for a closer look at the restraints!
My main stem no longer has any room for me to get a pipe cleaner in between the bud sites. No matter! I just grabbed a top fan and tied that down!
And here you can see some of the exposed lower sites that get full light and are close to the same height as the rest of the stem...more hormones!
That's the way I do it. Post questions or comments!
I'll update this thread when the buds develop and we can see if they're as even as the Blueberry was!
- Thread starter
- #385
Welcome to my LST thread Ryan, and thanks for reading my sig! Ask any questions that come to mind, and post some plant pics here so we can see what you have going on. I'm not a SCROGger, but I'll point you to folks that can help if you decide to drop a net on them.
I will definitely take u up on that. I try to get all knowledge i can. And try different things to see what work lol.
What week do u start to train? How young or old?
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- #388
I start LST based on plant height rather than age. Ideally you let the plant get tall enough so that the bend in the plant is far enough above the top edge of the pot that you can get the top of the plant below the bend, which is how you trick the plant into thinking it has no top. I see a lot of growers start too soon and the angle of the trunk is always up.
That makes sense i have a week or more probably before they are ready to mess with but thanks and ill ask anything else when the time comes
SeniorMoments
Well-Known Member
I had to reread this Shed.Greetings all! I've had members ask about how I do my LST (low stress training) on my plants so I thought I would do a pictorial on it. My pics are of two different plants but don't let that confuse you. It's just easier to demonstrate that way.
Let's discuss the theory behind LST for a minute. Cannabis plants grow up to the sun. They have a top (apical) cola and side branching. Most of the growth hormones (auxins) go to that apical cola, which is why an untrained plant often has a beautiful huge bud on top and then progressively smaller buds as you head toward the soil. Topping a plant tells the plant that there is no longer an apical cola (damage alert!!!) so it needs to send the auxins to other branches to assure its chances to pass on its genetics. You then end up with two tops from that one.
That's great for photo plants which you can grow as big as you want them to be before you flip them, but autos are on an internal clock. Now many growers top their autos and get great results. I don't. I try to stress autos as little as possible so I do LST.
LST is a method for tricking the plant into thinking it no longer has an apical cola without actually removing it. The method involves pulling the top down flat so that it's not higher than the rest of the plant. The plant still thinks it's lost its apical cola and begins to send the growth hormones to the rest of the branches, but there is no recovery time as there is with topping because nothing has been cut.
As each of the lower branches grows in response, it gets tied down toward the outside of the pot, allowing light and air to get to the rest of the plant, and forcing the plant to continue to evenly spread the auxins.
Let's look at some pics!
I used to start bending the plant when it was much younger. Now I wait until the stem will be close to even with the top edge of the pot after it's bent. This was my Blueberry Auto from last summer.
You can see that I used a rock to hold the stem in place as I bent it. It's important that the base of the stem be upright so you don't put stress on the stem/root connection. Now I use a rock as well as a tie holding the stem in the opposite direction to the bend. This is my current Blue Treacle:
Let's watch the progress of the Blueberry Auto as it goes from the first pic to full buddage!
You can see how I have begun to take the side branching and lay it out flat as well - away from any other growth - using the sticks and twist ties. Flattening each branch forces the plant to spread the auxins equally:
Once the branches outgrow the internal size of the pot, I tie the branches to the edge:
Once they get this far into flower there is no more to be done except watch them grow! I do not untie them until I harvest the plant.
Here is the Blueberry getting close to the end. Can you spot the apical cola? This produced over 4 ounces of dried buds. Not too shabby!
Now let's look at an auto I have currently going into the earliest stages of flower. This one is a Blue Treacle, shown in the second pic with the white wire holding the stem in place opposite the bend. Here is a top view:
And here it is from the side. You can see how flat the top is:
This plant thinks there is no apical cola and is trying its damnedest to develop a new one. Not going to let that happen! I want each cola to be the same size in the end, similar to the last Blueberry pic.
Time for a closer look at the restraints!
My main stem no longer has any room for me to get a pipe cleaner in between the bud sites. No matter! I just grabbed a top fan and tied that down!
And here you can see some of the exposed lower sites that get full light and are close to the same height as the rest of the stem...more hormones!
That's the way I do it. Post questions or comments!
I'll update this thread when the buds develop and we can see if they're as even as the Blueberry was!
My 3 GG auto’s are just about ready to start LST.
Thanks again.
- Thread starter
- #391
Always glad to help! Post pics and questions
.
SoGnotSOG321
Well-Known Member
These are the ones above 10 days later
I have at least 48 bud sites along all the lower branches, I stopped counting. I haven't topped any of those. When the pistols start exploding I'm going to pinch them then. I haven't done any super cropping as the branches have barely cleared the side of the pot and everything is pretty level. Thanks Shed!
I have at least 48 bud sites along all the lower branches, I stopped counting. I haven't topped any of those. When the pistols start exploding I'm going to pinch them then. I haven't done any super cropping as the branches have barely cleared the side of the pot and everything is pretty level. Thanks Shed!
SeniorMoments
Well-Known Member
A little early to start I think.Always glad to help! Post pics and questions
Day 13 since a full sprout.
I will up pot to 5 gal pot next week ( I know the naysayers opinion ).
should I wait till I change pots ?
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- #394
You mean take off the larf underneath or pinch them/top them? I wouldn't top anything on that plant. With 48 tops already (some of which will come off either before or after flip), I can't see you having a bigger harvest by topping anything. There's a point of diminishing returns given the size of the plant and roots.
Yup...too early! Another 3-4" of height would be the time.
Are you in a hurry to transplant them? I can guarantee that the roots haven't come close to filling those pots, so any attempt to move them will cause the soil to fall away, risking damage to the roots.
SoGnotSOG321
Well-Known Member
No not increase the sites, there was a post about nipping the larger flowering tips to force outwards growth later on.
You do some defoliation right? I have that LST one that is like lettuce, and the fim has those huge fan leaves at the node bases. More than half cover other fans I have pulled down between the branches whose tips are climbing up past the top now. Would you think it was ok to take some of those pulled tucked leaves off to open up the sides a bit? Or maybe give it a couple days for some more stretch. I have to saturate the fim later this evening, the LST has already been saturated this morning, I did so much re-tucking on it to get those lower tips up out of the 'lettuce' I almost did it then. But I know the stretch follows the water and the dark afterwards. TIA GG
You do some defoliation right? I have that LST one that is like lettuce, and the fim has those huge fan leaves at the node bases. More than half cover other fans I have pulled down between the branches whose tips are climbing up past the top now. Would you think it was ok to take some of those pulled tucked leaves off to open up the sides a bit? Or maybe give it a couple days for some more stretch. I have to saturate the fim later this evening, the LST has already been saturated this morning, I did so much re-tucking on it to get those lower tips up out of the 'lettuce' I almost did it then. But I know the stretch follows the water and the dark afterwards. TIA GG
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- #396
I think you have enough fans that taking a few off every couple of days won't make a difference. And stretch should spread out the lettuce look (it usually does anyway!).
Back building is a thing (done at a very specific time in the flowering process), but there is no proof it does anything other than change the shape of your buds. It's done for bag appeal and hasn't been shown to increase harvest weight. I'd skip it rather than risk it.
I'm not sure what you mean. Stretch follows flip, for approximately 21 days (strain-dependent).
I do. I take off about the bottom third of the plant a week before flip and then take off larf and weak branches after stretch, but I've never had a lettuce pheno before!
SeniorMoments
Well-Known Member
No , not in any hurry.
I actually just up potted to these pots 2 days ago.
The original small container was literally full of white healthy roots.
I will definitely check out the roots before transplanting , always do.
I usually saturate the container in the morning and move it that evening.
When the leafs get to outside of container is when I usually up pot.
I suspect these girls might be there in a week , or so .
Never had issues with any plant doing that.
Years of veggies and flowers , only 4 cannabis grows , and never an auto .
I read one of @Emilya journals and she uppotted some auto’s w/no probs.
Others have also so
I have to try this as I have had so much success in the past.
I just wasn’t sure when to start LST.
Thanks Shed.
- Thread starter
- #398
I never upcan my autos, but I know a lot who do. I would try to stick to one if possible, because stress can send an auto into flower.
Some autos don't get tall enough for LST before they start to show pistils, so it can be hit or miss. It's one of the reasons I gave up autos...not enough control over the size and training, and other than a slight advantage in speed they stopped being worth it to me.
Some autos don't get tall enough for LST before they start to show pistils, so it can be hit or miss. It's one of the reasons I gave up autos...not enough control over the size and training, and other than a slight advantage in speed they stopped being worth it to me.
Southerncough
Well-Known Member
you know, I don't grow a lot of autos, usually one or two/ year if I'm rebooting my garden and want a little excitement while the photo plants take their time to veg, sex, and clone, etc. After my last harvest I had to turn my bloom room into a plant hospital to help some of my veg plants try to recover from getting a serious case of mites and white flies. The bugs are now under control but getting there meant punishing the plants with a lot of dish soap which I learned the hard way is pretty harmful as well. Yes, I'm Purchasing some insecticidal soap asap to have on hand for preventative maintenance and treatment. Yes I sprayed them every few days with neem oil, cayenne pepper, essential oils, etc which only seemed to slow them down temporarily only to come back more aggressive a week later.
Anyways, I'm now sprouting some new photo seeds and since what's left of the veg plants isn't the most ideal structure for a successful bloom (tall, lanky, some missing branches, lots of damaged notes, etc.) I'm considering cloning the healthiest plants and maybe raising them along with an auto or two in my bloom room with the lights set to 18/6. Just a thought, have a few auto beans laying around. Figured a few weeks for the mother plant to be ready to donate some cuttings, plus a few weeks for the cuttings to root, plus 2 months of veg into nice bushy plants and by the time I'm ready to flip them into flower, the autos will be hanging to dry!
Saw this thread pop up and thought...hmmm, change of plans...why not?
Anyways, I'm now sprouting some new photo seeds and since what's left of the veg plants isn't the most ideal structure for a successful bloom (tall, lanky, some missing branches, lots of damaged notes, etc.) I'm considering cloning the healthiest plants and maybe raising them along with an auto or two in my bloom room with the lights set to 18/6. Just a thought, have a few auto beans laying around. Figured a few weeks for the mother plant to be ready to donate some cuttings, plus a few weeks for the cuttings to root, plus 2 months of veg into nice bushy plants and by the time I'm ready to flip them into flower, the autos will be hanging to dry!
Saw this thread pop up and thought...hmmm, change of plans...why not?
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- #400
If you want to give diatomaceous earth spray a shot for mites and white flies, it works well in veg. Never in flower though.
Taking clones of photos that won't produce much in their current state is an excellent idea!
Taking clones of photos that won't produce much in their current state is an excellent idea!
