How I perform low stress training on my plants: Lots of pics!

If you go to the first posting on page 1, and you scroll down to the 5th photo, Shed posted this:

"Once they get this far into flower there is no more to be done except watch them grow! I do not untie them until I harvest the plant."

If you haven't already, I suggest going to page 1 and read through this entire thread. Lots of good info in here.
 
Dayum! I did scroll through all that earlier today, but a little too fast it seems - It was right there and I managed to miss it :oops: The pretty pictures must be too distracting... yeah, I'll blame it on that :cheesygrinsmiley:

It's an excellent thread, you're right about that. I'm getting great results based on the teachings of master Shed!

Thanks for the pointer, BigD13 :thumb:
 
NorthernCosmos said:
Dayum! I did scroll through all that earlier today, but a little too fast it seems - It was right there and I managed to miss it :oops: The pretty pictures must be too distracting... yeah, I'll blame it on that :cheesygrinsmiley:

It's an excellent thread, you're right about that. I'm getting great results based on the teachings of master Shed!

Thanks for the pointer, BigD13
Click to expand...
Sorry for the delay...hernia repair, not that far down low ;).

No reason to take off the ties unless there are a couple that get in the way of watering.
BigD13 said:
If you go to the first posting on page 1, and you scroll down to the 5th photo, Shed posted this:

"Once they get this far into flower there is no more to be done except watch them grow! I do not untie them until I harvest the plant."

If you haven't already, I suggest going to page 1 and read through this entire thread. Lots of good info in here.
Click to expand...
Thanks BigD! What's with the new "grateful" responses. I like "Thanks" much better :).
 
Great thread and thanks for posting all your details. I too, did not want to top and pulled my main down and let 4 other laterals grow for a total of 5 bud sites. Next grow I'll not prune so many branches and have more bud sites, and that's what I would like to discuss. I saw one mention you had about waiting till later in flower to decide what branches to prune.

So just to step this out in detail... pull the main over, break the apical dominance and let all the lateral branches grow up. Now they all have easy access to light. This method keeps the plant growing without the delay caused by topping, plus retaining the main stem which should produce some amazing bud growth even if the apical dominance is spread out.

I'd like to deep dive the ADDITIONAL lateral branch growth that will pop up from the lower branches as they grow up. Do you ever prune them? They will show up at all stages of growth, so many will be underdeveloped going into flower and not have the same strong bud growth that the original 10 or so branches will have.

Would it be best to count how many first generation lateral branches to keep and then prune all others? This may be strain specific and may take one grow to learn how many laterals come off the main and that grow out in whatever veg time you use. This makes the most sense to me as I think about it as I write it :) Many people pick a number and do that, like 8 or 10, but it seems the largest yielding plants I've seen have 12-16!

As usual, it may just take experience to answer such questions, but I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on it to see if you can make any broader summaries that could help.

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1101191521.jpg
 
Glad you found this thread helpful Brian! You plant looks great even with the lowers you took off, and I'm not sure you would have much room for them had you left them on :). Nodes 1 and 2 have done the job of filling in the canopy along with the apical stem.

Once the job of evenly distributing the auxins is complete, then it's just a question of keeping the canopy even, so that the plant maintains that even hormone spread.
Brian420pm said:
I'd like to deep dive the ADDITIONAL lateral branch growth that will pop up from the lower branches as they grow up. Do you ever prune them?
Click to expand...
In an auto flower I keep training all new growth from the lower branches to ensure that the plant never thinks one stem is the new top. And I don't take off any lower growth until it goes into flower if I see it would never produce a bud worth trimming. Mostly because autos don't often get as large as the photo plants I grow.

For a photo (which would get much bigger for me), I would take off the lower branching as it becomes obvious that it won't make it to to the canopy and produce a top cola.

As you can see from this pic of the bones of the It's It Punch I featured a few pages back, all the growth that I left on the plant is approximately the same height, and everything else was trimmed away by the time I was done with the post-stretch thinning:
full


Does that answer your question? Let me know!
 
InTheShed said:
Nodes 1 and 2 have done the job of filling in the canopy
Click to expand...

To be more specific about my plant, the lateral branches that have grown OFF nodes 1 and 2 are filling in the canopy. Your method KEEPS more original nodes which would be older and more developed.

InTheShed said:
if I see it would never produce a bud worth trimming
Click to expand...

InTheShed said:
post-stretch thinning
Click to expand...

I see from studying your bones, you let 8 or 9 node branches grow up for a total of 16-18 main bud sites, and a few of those you allowed later growing laterals to grow out, but the majority of those later laterals are no longer visible so I'm curious exactly when you pinched/pruned them.

Growing out the first 8-9 nodes jives with my veg timing where I was around 9 nodes at 4 weeks from seed.
 
I have no idea how many nodes I kept or how many branches I ended up with honestly. I just kept it flat until the rest grew up to where I thought I could let the top go up without being considered apical by the plant. Since it was grown outside, it vegged as long as it wanted to and flipped itself when it was ready.

Hard to tell what was what by the end!
full


In terms of when I pruned them, the answer is all along the way, the last being after stretch was over. I'm constantly fussing with my plants!
 
InTheShed said:
Greetings all! I've had members ask about how I do my LST (low stress training) on my plants so I thought I would do a pictorial on it. My pics are of two different plants but don't let that confuse you. It's just easier to demonstrate that way.

Let's discuss the theory behind LST for a minute. Cannabis plants grow up to the sun. They have a top (apical) cola and side branching. Most of the growth hormones (auxins) go to that apical cola, which is why an untrained plant often has a beautiful huge bud on top and then progressively smaller buds as you head toward the soil. Topping a plant tells the plant that there is no longer an apical cola (damage alert!!!) so it needs to send the auxins to other branches to assure its chances to pass on its genetics. You then end up with two tops from that one.

That's great for photo plants which you can grow as big as you want them to be before you flip them, but autos are on an internal clock. Now many growers top their autos and get great results. I don't. I try to stress autos as little as possible so I do LST.

LST is a method for tricking the plant into thinking it no longer has an apical cola without actually removing it. The method involves pulling the top down flat so that it's not higher than the rest of the plant. The plant still thinks it's lost its apical cola and begins to send the growth hormones to the rest of the branches, but there is no recovery time as there is with topping because nothing has been cut.

As each of the lower branches grows in response, it gets tied down toward the outside of the pot, allowing light and air to get to the rest of the plant, and forcing the plant to continue to evenly spread the auxins.

Let's look at some pics!

I used to start bending the plant when it was much younger. Now I wait until the stem will be close to even with the top edge of the pot after it's bent. This was my Blueberry Auto from last summer.
20170614_083330.jpg

20170614_083330.jpg

Blueberry auto 2

You can see that I used a rock to hold the stem in place as I bent it. It's important that the base of the stem be upright so you don't put stress on the stem/root connection. Now I use a rock as well as a tie holding the stem in the opposite direction to the bend. This is my current Blue Treacle:
20181020_094929.jpg

20181020_094929.jpg

Blue Treacle 2 LST begins

Let's watch the progress of the Blueberry Auto as it goes from the first pic to full buddage!

You can see how I have begun to take the side branching and lay it out flat as well - away from any other growth - using the sticks and twist ties. Flattening each branch forces the plant to spread the auxins equally:
20170628_081732.jpg

20170628_081732.jpg

Blueberry auto 2

Once the branches outgrow the internal size of the pot, I tie the branches to the edge:
20170706_081732.jpg

20170706_081732.jpg

Blueberry auto 2

Once they get this far into flower there is no more to be done except watch them grow! I do not untie them until I harvest the plant.
20170720_081206.jpg

20170720_081206.jpg

Blueberry auto 2

Here is the Blueberry getting close to the end. Can you spot the apical cola? This produced over 4 ounces of dried buds. Not too shabby!
20170807_073337.jpg

20170807_073337.jpg

Blueberry auto 2

Now let's look at an auto I have currently going into the earliest stages of flower. This one is a Blue Treacle, shown in the second pic with the white wire holding the stem in place opposite the bend. Here is a top view:
20181106_081156.jpg

20181106_081156.jpg

Flat trained LST canopy

And here it is from the side. You can see how flat the top is:
20181106_081230.jpg

20181106_081230.jpg

Flat trained LST canopy

This plant thinks there is no apical cola and is trying its damnedest to develop a new one. Not going to let that happen! I want each cola to be the same size in the end, similar to the last Blueberry pic.

Time for a closer look at the restraints!
20181106_081250.jpg

20181106_081250.jpg

Tie downs

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20181106_081453.jpg

Tie downs

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20181106_081501.jpg

Tie downs

20181106_081514.jpg

20181106_081514.jpg

Tie downs

My main stem no longer has any room for me to get a pipe cleaner in between the bud sites. No matter! I just grabbed a top fan and tied that down!
20181106_081442.jpg

20181106_081442.jpg

Tie downs on the leaf, not a stem

And here you can see some of the exposed lower sites that get full light and are close to the same height as the rest of the stem...more hormones!
20181106_081636.jpg

20181106_081636.jpg

Lowers growing up

That's the way I do it. Post questions or comments! :cool:

I'll update this thread when the buds develop and we can see if they're as even as the Blueberry was!
Click to expand...
FANTASTIC! Thank you soooo very much for all that information!
 
Howdy Sasha and thanks for stopping by! I'm glad you found it helpful. In terms of your question about topping, I need to ask a few questions of you first :). Is this a photo or an auto? How tall is the plant? Can you post a pic here?

Generally, if I'm topping I don't tie any branches down until afterward, once the new top growth gets long enough to grab hold of and tie flat. Also, if I'm topping a plant with tight nodes, I try to wait until it gets taller first.

I don't top my autoflowers, though many do. I just do LST on them to give them a stress-free life!
 
Because of the rapid growth of the Golden Tiger 2 in my winter grow, I have had to start training it flat to keep it under control. But because it's in a 1 gallon pot, it has already outgrown the width, which leaves me with nowhere to tie it. Enter barbecue sticks!

Here are some pics to explain.

20200107_084654 GT2 LST.jpg

20200107_084654 GT2 LST.jpg

Golden Tiger 2 LST

Using barbecue sticks enables me to extend the tie-down point as far out as the sticks will reach, which is well beyond the pot's edge:
20200107_084702 GT2 LST.jpg

20200107_084702 GT2 LST.jpg

Golden Tiger 2 LST

And since the new growth that needs to be tied hasn't given me enough room to get a pipe cleaner on it, I grab a leaf and pull that down:
20200107_084729 GT2 LST.jpg

20200107_084729 GT2 LST.jpg

Golden Tiger 2 LST

Once the stem grows out I can wrap it around the stem, but this works well in the meantime.

Grow on! :peace:
 
Big juice said:
My analytical mind desires my subconscious to perform works of unnatural physics for nature.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a perfect combination! Post pics and ask questions :).
 
Toneking said:
Thank you for this. I definitely need to get better at LST - it sounds easy in theory, but is much more challenging when you try to actually DO it
Click to expand...
Glad I can help Toneking!
 
Hey @InTheShed. Hope all is well and your plants are flourishing!
Was sent here by MrS....had a question on LST for autoflowers....people say not to train it when it is in flower, is this valid?

Based on what I've read and have been told, first day of flower is when pistils are shooting out from the calyx, if this happens early and my plants start stretching should I stop LST?
During the stretch would seem like the best time to LST as there is tons of growth during this time so being able to manipulate the branches during this time would be ideal no?
 
780grow said:
Hey @InTheShed. Hope all is well and your plants are flourishing!
Was sent here by MrS....had a question on LST for autoflowers....people say not to train it when it is in flower, is this valid?

Based on what I've read and have been told, first day of flower is when pistils are shooting out from the calyx, if this happens early and my plants start stretching should I stop LST?
During the stretch would seem like the best time to LST as there is tons of growth during this time so being able to manipulate the branches during this time would be ideal no?
Click to expand...
Hey 780, thanks for stopping by!

I would say that as long as the stem is bendable and you can keep it flat without damaging any of the flowering growth, there is no reason to stop LST once flowering starts. I continued to train my Amnesia Haze auto after pistils showed because it flowered at 23 days! I think that's the reason I did better than expected in terms of harvest. At some point though it's impossible to keep it flat because of how tight the buds are and how thick the stems get.

You won't be able to take full advantage of the boost in growth from the lower node growth that comes during veg though. And not every auto will stretch the same in flower. Some will double in size and some stay compact.
 

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