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How much time is saved?

Four20KusH

New Member
Hey guys, I'm new here and here's the first of many questions to come, lol.

How much time can an indoor grower gain by having a mother plant which he can then start cuttings compared to starting plants from seeds? For an 8 week harvest strain it takes four months from germinating to harvest and that's growing a three foot plant, curious to know how much time can be saved if growing from cuttings instead of seeds.

Thanks in advance.
 

JJ Bones

Nug of the Month: Feb 2013
You save tons of time, clones are great for indoor settings especially when you're the one taking the clones from a mother you started.

Seeds are best for outdoor grows, in my opinion.

Of course there is no perfect way, whatever works for the grower.
 

Brick Top

New Member
The answers given are all correct enough but then there are two other things to consider. One is how you pick your mother plants. Some will start a crop and pick the most vigorous plants and pull them to become mothers and then either finish the rest of the crop or do away with it. Others, which is the more intelligent way, is to start a crop and mark each plant/pot and take clones from all of them and mark them so you know which plant they came from and then begin to grow them all as mothers. Finish the initial crop, sample each plant and the one or ones that are what you like the most, that or those are the plant or plants you keep as a mother or mothers and you can then either grow out/finish the rest or do away with them. Doing it that way is the quickest and easiest way to make sure you end up with the mother or mothers you like the best rather than just judging by growing vigor like some do but then possibly ending up with a high or stone or combination of both that isn't the best you could have gotten.

Then there is also a way to speed up the process even more once the mother plant or plants have become fairly decent sized. Rather than taking small clones you can perform air layering and as your mother plants grow a large section of branch or an entire branch will root out and when you are ready, or it is ready, when it has grown to a good size you can then clip it below the roots and have a fairly large plant with a good root structure ready to go under lights.

To be able to do this and have a real crop and not just a few plants you would need multiple mothers so you can air layer enough sections of branches or entire branches for a crop without nearly stripping one or two mother plants and then having to wait for them to regrow, but with a much larger already rooted out plant to use rather than rooting small clones and waiting for them to grow once you have enough mothers of a decent size you can cut even more time off for a crop to reach harvest.

But it all comes down to if someone has the space for enough mothers or not and to be willing to wait the period of time for them to grow to a suitable size to begin the air layering process. If they can, then they can speed things up even more than traditional cloning. If not than traditional cloning is a faster way to go than to begin crops from seeds and to retain genetics you know are good rather than gamble on what each pack of seeds might give you and what germination rate/percentage you might get.
 

Four20KusH

New Member
^^^ Brick Top: In your first method is it the same thing if you have 10 small plants that were started from seed and then make the biggest and healthiest looking plant the mother or were you talking about starting clones form clones to become moms. Sorry new stuff so takes time.
 

Brick Top

New Member
^^^ Brick Top: In your first method is it the same thing if you have 10 small plants that were started from seed and then make the biggest and healthiest looking plant the mother or were you talking about starting clones form clones to become moms. Sorry new stuff so takes time.

I think you missed the point. Picking "the biggest and healthiest looking plants" doesn't assure what you pick will give you the best high or the high you like the most, the highest grade herb you can get from the genetics you have to use.

If you start from seeds to find your mother plants and you mark each plant and then when they reach a stage you can take clones to use to grow as mothers and mark each clone so you know what plant each came from the the plants you started from seed are well on their way by then and by harvest time the clones for possible mothers should be nice plants ready or near ready to take clones from.

Then when you sample each plant you started from seed and find the herb from which plant or plants you like the best, the herb that is the highest quality out of the entire crop, the clones from that plant or those plants are your keepers, the ones you use for mothers.

You choice of mothers was then made by picking by product quality and not just by hoping a plant or plants that were faster or bushier growing plant at the time you took clones will give you the highest grade herb, because they don't always do that. You cannot rely on plant vigor as meaning a certainty exists that the herb from those plants will be top shelf, that it will be better than another plant or plants that at the stage of growth you take clones to use for mothers might not be as impressive looking.

Sometimes the plant or plants that look like they are lagging behind and not good plants are just late comers and in the end not only give you the best herb of the crop but might also be the best producers. I have had many plants like that over the decades and ended up with the highest quality herb of the crop from them. And after all, isn't that what people want, the highest grade herb? Or do they actually just want herb from the plant or plants that at the stage of growth when clones are taken appear to be the most vigorous growing plants, regardless of the quality of herb they will produce?

Now if someone is a commercial grower and not one who cares all that much about maintaining the highest quality so they can charge more and due to the quality herb they provide build a larger more loyal customer base and all they want is herb than just take as many clones as possible for mothers and grow from all of them regardless of the variance in quality that will result from growing that way.

My point was not about speed in regards to, in relation to initially getting started growing from clones but instead about finding the best highest quality mothers to use so then you can begin growing from clones and from then on speed up growing time but also a way to be assured you are growing what you like the best and is the highest quality herb you can grow from the genetics you are using.

And even if someone has access to clones they know produce herb they love and is top notch gear they will still have to wait for those clones to grow long enough to become large enough plants to then be able to take clones from to grow or to start them as a first crop, if they get enough clones for a crop, and have to take clones from them and still, just as if they began from seeds, wait long enough for them to grow large enough to be able to then be able to take the next batch of clones from for a crop.

Using clones is a faster way to grow, but only once you have mothers grown to a point/size to take clones from. But regardless of which way you go there is no such thing as an overnight or weekend grow. Either route someone takes to end up at the same place in the end takes time and that means you need to have patience and if adding a few weeks to the initial overall time frame assures you of being able to grow the very best herb you can because that additional times assured you of having mothers that produce the highest quality herb you can get from the genetics you are using that is something worth having the patience to do.

Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was Syracuse.
 

shottafire

Member of the Month: Sept 2013 - Nug of the Month: July 2014, April 2020
start ten seeds clone and mark all plants so you know which clones belong to the plant you took the cuts from. flower out the plants you took cuts from. by the time your plants are 6 or so weeks in flower you should know or at least have an idea of the ones you want to keep.

Keep everything labeled. I like using colored gaffer tape to color code each one. or just some blue tape will work with a permanent marker.

Its a long process.

Brick top is right in everything he said as well.
 

Brick Top

New Member
start ten seeds clone and mark all plants so you know which clones belong to the plant you took the cuts from. flower out the plants you took cuts from. by the time your plants are 6 or so weeks in flower you should know or at least have an idea of the ones you want to keep.

Keep everything labeled. I like using colored gaffer tape to color code each one. or just some blue tape will work with a permanent marker.

Its a long process.

Brick top is right in everything he said as well.

Another way to mark the plants and clones is how garden plants and vegetable plants are marked, they have the little flat plastic stake-like thing with the plant name and sometimes a picture or growing information too. You can buy blank ones and they come in handy if you are working with multiple strains because you can write the strain name on them and then something like #1 and #2 and #3 etc. for each plant and clone. You just stick one in each plant and one in each piece of rockwool and then you don't have to have a great memory or keep a log of what color tape (or yarn as one friend of mine uses) to be able to be sure which strain is which strain on top of which plant each clone came from. You only need to read the little white plastic stake-like thing.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I don't like the plant tags that garden plants and vegetable plants use. I use tape or yarn like your friend uses. Just a preference.

cheers.


It's like most everything in life, we all have personal preferences, things or systems we are most comfortable with and whatever that might be to someone than it's the best system or way to do it for them. I only offered another suggestion for a way that has been the easiest and worked the best 'for me' when working with several different genetics at one time.

In growing, regardless of if some believe them or not, certain things are facts, there aren't options that are as good or better, they are as singularly true as if they were carved in stone and handed down from the mountain tops. But other things, like this, are totally something that comes down to one's personal preference, what they like best, what they are most comfortable with, what it easiest for them, what might work better for their individual situation and setup even though in a different situation or setup they might go with a different way of doing things. As long as what is used isn't something that could damage a plant or clone, like using wire or twist ties, and as long as what is used is reliable, that there won't be any confusion at some point like .... was the purple the Cheese and the blue the Skunk or is it the other way around .... sort of thing than what works best for someone is just that, the best way 'for them' to do it.

There have been times I didn't use the marker stakes. A few times I used some of the plant tape we used at our nursery and would make a loop around a plant branch and to put around a clone, but not as in tied to it, and to number then I would use scissors and make one cut in the end of the tape for plant number one and for clone number one and two cuts for plant number two and clone number two and so on. I was working with just one strain of genetics and I only needed to keep track of what clones came from which plants. Had I been working with multiple genetics depending on how many it would have been different colored tape for each strain and if only a couple I would easily remember them and if more than I would write down which color was which strain.

I can't say I knew the guy, I only met him once while with a friend, but he came up with his way of keeping track of plants and their clones one night playing strip Twister. He would put a blue dot or a yellow dot or a green dot etc. on the pots of plants and then on the table us kept his clones on, and also the chosen mothers, he had the same color dots. The only addition or change was he would write a 1 or a 2 or a 3 or a 4 in each dot on pots and on his table and then he could keep track of both what genetics a plant or clone was by the color dot and which plant of each genetics by the number in the dot.

So it's totally optional on what method or system to use. All that is important is that it reliably works for the grower without any risk of damage to plants or clones or leaves any chance of confusion occurring.
 

shottafire

Member of the Month: Sept 2013 - Nug of the Month: July 2014, April 2020
It's like most everything in life, we all have personal preferences, things or systems we are most comfortable with and whatever that might be to someone than it's the best system or way to do it for them. I only offered another suggestion for a way that has been the easiest and worked the best 'for me' when working with several different genetics at one time.

In growing, regardless of if some believe them or not, certain things are facts, there aren't options that are as good or better, they are as singularly true as if they were carved in stone and handed down from the mountain tops. But other things, like this, are totally something that comes down to one's personal preference, what they like best, what they are most comfortable with, what it easiest for them, what might work better for their individual situation and setup even though in a different situation or setup they might go with a different way of doing things. As long as what is used isn't something that could damage a plant or clone, like using wire or twist ties, and as long as what is used is reliable, that there won't be any confusion at some point like .... was the purple the Cheese and the blue the Skunk or is it the other way around .... sort of thing than what works best for someone is just that, the best way 'for them' to do it.

There have been times I didn't use the marker stakes. A few times I used some of the plant tape we used at our nursery and would make a loop around a plant branch and to put around a clone, but not as in tied to it, and to number then I would use scissors and make one cut in the end of the tape for plant number one and for clone number one and two cuts for plant number two and clone number two and so on. I was working with just one strain of genetics and I only needed to keep track of what clones came from which plants. Had I been working with multiple genetics depending on how many it would have been different colored tape for each strain and if only a couple I would easily remember them and if more than I would write down which color was which strain.

I can't say I knew the guy, I only met him once while with a friend, but he came up with his way of keeping track of plants and their clones one night playing strip Twister. He would put a blue dot or a yellow dot or a green dot etc. on the pots of plants and then on the table us kept his clones on, and also the chosen mothers, he had the same color dots. The only addition or change was he would write a 1 or a 2 or a 3 or a 4 in each dot on pots and on his table and then he could keep track of both what genetics a plant or clone was by the color dot and which plant of each genetics by the number in the dot.

So it's totally optional on what method or system to use. All that is important is that it reliably works for the grower without any risk of damage to plants or clones or leaves any chance of confusion occurring.

Is that right?
 

shottafire

Member of the Month: Sept 2013 - Nug of the Month: July 2014, April 2020
I dont know I read two sentences and didnt have the energy to read 5 paragraphs.

Not sure your remembering the point of the thread that was started. how much time saved?

Its ok though sorry for coming off like that BT. I am not trying to stir shit. just like to keep things short and to the point.

Your paragraphs are just too much info for newbies to be plagued with. I will leave this thread and not try to give info here since you got it all covered.

Good luck four20kush
 

Brick Top

New Member
I dont know I read two sentences and didnt have the energy to read 5 paragraphs.

Not sure your remembering the point of the thread that was started. how much time saved?

Its ok though sorry for coming off like that BT. I am not trying to stir shit. just like to keep things short and to the point.

Your paragraphs are just too much info for newbies to be plagued with. I will leave this thread and not try to give info here since you got it all covered.

Good luck four20kush


One reason I stopped going to grow sites about the time I joined here, and why when I only recently came back I only had three posts, is for some reason reading so someone can learn has just become to much of a task or a challenge for them and if it can't be said in three sentences most won't bother to read it no matter what the content is.

As for the topic, as vague and as limited as the first answers were they covered as much as most are interested in spending the time to learn so I was wasting my time by expanding on the answers and giving additional related information that is well worth knowing.

I won't make that mistake again since it's been made crystal clear to me that more than yes or no answers are more taxing to those reading them than the knowledge contained in them is worth learning.

From now on I will leave all the answering of questions to those who have fewer years of growing experience than I have decades of growing experience and also to those who have fewer grows worth of experience than I have decades of growing experience since it's the answers they supply that are evidently the most valued here since they are short and do not bother to waste anyone's precious time by then going on and explaining how best to go about what the person who asked the question is about to undertake for the first time so then they won't have to ask a number more questions about what is totally new to them. So keeping answers short and sweet but still leaving them in the dark about most of what they are about to attempt for the very first time is the very best way to help someone new. Teaching less actually equates to helping them learn the most they possibly can about what they will need to know and the best way to go about it. Interesting concept.

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped spending so much time on a large number of different grow sites over so very many years. It was because I found myself incapable of condensing something that takes five-hundred words to say into only five words and to be able to do it monosyllabically so what I wrote would be read.

Adiós, muchachos.
 

labexperiment

Well-Known Member
One reason I stopped going to grow sites about the time I joined here, and why when I only recently came back I only had three posts, is for some reason reading so someone can learn has just become to much of a task or a challenge for them and if it can't be said in three sentences most won't bother to read it no matter what the content is.

As for the topic, as vague and as limited as the first answers were they covered as much as most are interested in spending the time to learn so I was wasting my time by expanding on the answers and giving additional related information that is well worth knowing.

I won't make that mistake again since it's been made crystal clear to me that more than yes or no answers are more taxing to those reading them than the knowledge contained in them is worth learning.

From now on I will leave all the answering of questions to those who have fewer years of growing experience than I have decades of growing experience and also to those who have fewer grows worth of experience than I have decades of growing experience since it's the answers they supply that are evidently the most valued here since they are short and do not bother to waste anyone's precious time by then going on and explaining how best to go about what the person who asked the question is about to undertake for the first time so then they won't have to ask a number more questions about what is totally new to them. So keeping answers short and sweet but still leaving them in the dark about most of what they are about to attempt for the very first time is the very best way to help someone new. Teaching less actually equates to helping them learn the most they possibly can about what they will need to know and the best way to go about it. Interesting concept.

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped spending so much time on a large number of different grow sites over so very many years. It was because I found myself incapable of condensing something that takes five-hundred words to say into only five words and to be able to do it monosyllabically so what I wrote would be read.

Adiós, muchachos.



NO, DO NOT LEAVE! Please.
 

AllPersonal

New Member
@BrickTop, you need to take another few minutes to think about the big brush you are tarring all us n00bs with. I much perfer a lengthy explanation, apart from the love of reading I have and apart from writing showing you more of a persons nature helping folk form a bond, it was one person saying he cant be bothered to read.

I for one can be bothered and anyone with a thirst for learning/knowledge can be bothered.
I get what you are saying and its one of the reasons youtube howtos are huge, the lazy want everything right away crowd.

If your explanation is read, understood and helpful to one person out of everyone of this planet then its worth writing, let no one say otherwise.
 

Four20KusH

New Member
There is no need to leave this site just because one member doesn't have the time to read your posts, different strokes for different folks that's all. Thanks for the info from everyone.

One reason I stopped going to grow sites about the time I joined here, and why when I only recently came back I only had three posts, is for some reason reading so someone can learn has just become to much of a task or a challenge for them and if it can't be said in three sentences most won't bother to read it no matter what the content is.

As for the topic, as vague and as limited as the first answers were they covered as much as most are interested in spending the time to learn so I was wasting my time by expanding on the answers and giving additional related information that is well worth knowing.

I won't make that mistake again since it's been made crystal clear to me that more than yes or no answers are more taxing to those reading them than the knowledge contained in them is worth learning.

From now on I will leave all the answering of questions to those who have fewer years of growing experience than I have decades of growing experience and also to those who have fewer grows worth of experience than I have decades of growing experience since it's the answers they supply that are evidently the most valued here since they are short and do not bother to waste anyone's precious time by then going on and explaining how best to go about what the person who asked the question is about to undertake for the first time so then they won't have to ask a number more questions about what is totally new to them. So keeping answers short and sweet but still leaving them in the dark about most of what they are about to attempt for the very first time is the very best way to help someone new. Teaching less actually equates to helping them learn the most they possibly can about what they will need to know and the best way to go about it. Interesting concept.

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped spending so much time on a large number of different grow sites over so very many years. It was because I found myself incapable of condensing something that takes five-hundred words to say into only five words and to be able to do it monosyllabically so what I wrote would be read.

Adiós, muchachos.
 

Jsully

New Member
@BrickTop your ovisly well educated about cannabis and I love your long posts I always read them...sum times I can't understand the technical terms or words but the info is always helpful. The lazy stoners wont bother to read it but they want too grow hii grade without knowledge. I got told 'the more your learn the more you earn' this is a good theory for cannabis cultivation keep that in mind ;) keep reading :)
 
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