How To: Bend and top your way to a 1 pound monster

[Hiker]

My plants have more like 16"-18" sided square, so more like 2 sq ft each. They are a little over vegged, but there is quite a bit more defol/lollypop to do still. That was gonna be this weekend, but I'm going out of town this weekend. hmmmm.... I guess that needs to happen tonight or tomorrow.

 

[OG1969]

Will be worse if you wait till you get back on the Defol, OG

 

[Hiker]

Will be worse if you wait till you get back on the Defol, OG

I agree!

I almost did it last weekend, but 3 weeks from flip is today or tomorrow (and they didn't look quite ready for it), so this weekend is ideal IMHO. Plus, they are ready now. I'll just make the time. This trip to Seattle is supposed to be for 'business', but we started to think of it as a little vacation. I realized that this morning and decided to avoid that. We were stressed about trying to get out of here as early as possible today to maximize our time away, but I've decided to leave tomorrow and not be in a hurry. I don't have to be anywhere until Friday morning at ~10:30.

 

[s1ingblade]

Container Sizes and transplanting:

Before we get into the trellis, let's talk about an often under estimated subject, container sizes and transplanting. This is somewhat a different subject, which I will go into in another article, but it is worth mentioning briefly here. If you scour the web for people who are growing "one pounders", you'll find they all have a few things in common, but most importantly, monster containers. They aren't getting a pound out of a 2 gallon smart pot. In fact, I don't care for the fabric smart pots (except for a final flower container). The reason being is once it is in a fabric pot, the roots grow into the fabric, and then you stress it by transplanting. If you intend on moving to a bigger pot, use a pot with SMOOTH sides, so it will pull out of the container easy, without damaging roots.

Whether you are in dirt, rockwool, coco, whatever, we want to move up in container size frequently. In the above pictures, the plant was started in a 2" cube from seed, then moved to a 4" square pot, then moved to the 6" net pot, then one gallon pot, 2 gallon, 3.5, then finally below, a 5.8 gallon pot. Some may think this is too stressful for the plant, but if done correctly, your plant won't skip a beat. The root ball will be able to slowly build a large mass, instead of being stuck to the sides of the container.

Hey cap'n whats the white wire? Is it what you tie them down with or is one of those new grounding wire deals that i saw on the Internet? Cant remember the name but it grounds the plant and they say thats what it takes to get outdoor sized trees? I think all you got to do is grow em cap'n style

 

[s1ingblade]

Another great writeup!

Other than the scrog, I employ all of the techniques you're discussing. I have scrogged in the past, but for my current grow room, it's not practical. I also like being able to move each plant individually. (I use an Ebb & Gro)



I thought you no longer liked airpots due to the fungus gnat problem?

Tieing down plants is very easy with my Ebb& Gro too. I just spent a minute drilling some small holes just under the inner pot's rim, and now I can tie down anywhere I like. I use garden wire rather than string. I was using string, but it is MUCH more work tieing knots. You're a commercial grower Sl1ng. You should try wire. It's soooo much faster. I just leave my little pieces of wire attached to the bucket and they are ready to go for the next batch.



I just thought of a question for others that train their plants withOUT the scrog....
Do you keep them tethered for the duration?

I untie all mine after only a few days. I've found that the branches tend to take on the bent shape, more or less, permanently after just a couple days. I did my last round of training the week before flip. I went through and did a couple maintenance passes over the next week, but I untied them all in the first week of flowering.

My approach is to keep the plant low an wide until I flip. At that point I should already have all the branches I'm after. Then I'm just letting them grow straight up during the stretch. Then at ~3 weeks after flip, I do the final defol and clean up all those lower branches that are not going to produce nice nuggs.

Thanks for the tip hiker, havent been tying my girls down lately but will be soon. I would love to try something that helps save time and effort. Esp. Since im gone from home so much, heck im at my grow more than 50% of my life. Cant wait till i can work at home or closer at least

 

[TheCapn]

Hey cap'n whats the white wire? Is it what you tie them down with or is one of those new grounding wire deals that i saw on the Internet? Cant remember the name but it grounds the plant and they say thats what it takes to get outdoor sized trees? I think all you got to do is grow em cap'n style

That is just thick, nylon string I get from the hardware store; I use it to tie branches down. Sometimes I just keep bending them down but they always seem to right themselves again.

 

[DDCollect]

Capn, whats your take on topping vs femming? Havent really seen anything that you mention femming

 

[TheCapn]

What's up double D!?

F.I.M. = F_ck i missed. From anyone who hasn't heard of this, the difference is, instead of taking off the top node (as you see in my pictures), you only take about 80-90 percent of that node. This causes much more lower growth everywhere, making the plant more bushy overall. This stoner phrase was "coined" in high times magazine back in 2000. Have you ever seen a large tree after many branches are cut off the top? Branches start growing right out of the lower trunk and large branches. Fimming causes this type of growth, by disturbing auxins and redistributing them all over the plant.

With topping, it primarily only causes the lower two nodes to become dominant on that particular branch you topped.

As far as which method to use, it depends on the strain you are growing. For me and many other growers, I prefer to top. Topping gives me more control. With "fimming", it causes the plant to get too bushy (in my experience). It also depends on how you want to shape your plant, and what stage of growth you do it.

If you have a plant you want to bush out, give it a shot. First, make sure that plant has enough light and the media container is plenty big (roots are not constricted). Weak light and restricted roots will cause plants to pretty much grow straight up with few branches, and topping or fimming in this situation will not help. They say a plant will only grow out sideways, as far as it's roots can grow out sideways.

My suggestion would be to test out both methods on two plants and see what you like best. Fimming takes a little practice though. If you don't take enough, the plant doesn't react and you just have some jacked up looking leaves. If you take too much, it's the same as if you topped it.

Good luck with it and let me know how it goes.

 

[Smokemupm8]

Hey everyone,
Just a little side note to this FIM thing.. I DO NOT TOP my plants, I simply use an adapted form of LST to achieve the same results as said but also enabling the plants original main cola to keep gaining in height and there for making more nodes + more branches = MORE BUDS Anyone is welcome to drop by my journals and see my technique, I yeild around a pound p/plant in soil, under a 400w MH/HPS combo. No Hydro, No topping. I remove some fan leaves as I train my plant to suit my space and also to allow light to the inner branchings - I normally have over 14 new vertical cola's, instead of the 1. These have varied in size from 1 -2ft in length and 5-6" wide.
Ive had a girl inside that reached 6'5ft Tx 4.5ft W x2.5D, and so far has had my largest cola's indoors, But this grow Im aiming for 1.5lb dry..
She s a big girl and has potential to pull it off IMO.. Anyways, not trying to start any conflict - as I mentioned in a previous post - Ill be starting a HOW TO guide on my adaption of LST, So Im not trying to HI JACK this thread as its well set out and is very informative Ok well thanks and KEEP YA GARDEN GREEN!! Smokemup

 

[hoopgang]

I only started on this forum a few days ago and my first indoor plants ever are yet to sprout, but i have to say this is one of the best threads I've seen. You obviously know what you're talking about and I am now inspired to try topping and LST and hopefully double/triple my yield. Thanks so much for the knowledge. I've started my own journal since my situation is a bit unique (hardy outdoor strain grown indoors with lights and sunlight from a skylight) so any techniques I use from here will reference this awesome thread. Can't wait to see your plants finished and hope you get the pound you're aiming for.

 

[TheCapn]

HI Hoop. Very exciting on your new grow. If you decide to start a journal later, please invite me. If you decide to grow big ones, I hope this tutorial will help you.

Smokemup, I stopped by your last journal and those look like some HUGE colas! I didn't have time to shuffle thru 108 pages, but I would encourage you to make an article like this one, showing your techniques from start to finish. I'm sure it would help a lot of people.

 

[hoopgang]

Thanks for the interest Capn. Not sure if there's an invite feature but here's a link to the journal, it's all details, setup and thoughts so far since nothing's sprouted yet. This strain makes me laugh though, even with LST attempts I may have to start flowering very soon.

Unique Grow - Guerilla's Gusto Indoor First Time Grow HID 600W MH/HPS - 2013

 

[Smokemupm8]

Good to hear Hoop
It is not a very complicated process, you just need to take your time with it and may require a little training like any great Grape Vine should!
There s many great people on here to help ya if ya got a question, or think somethings not right.. Cheers, later HG. Smokem..

 

[s1ingblade]

Heres a pic of the day I tied down my OG Kush

 

[s1ingblade]

Here's a pic of what it looked like once i really looked, oops!

Hey cap'n do you think a plant that go on to recover from this and grow bigger could it still be a high yielder?
Guess well find out in ten to twelve weeks, just hope im not wasting a slot in the veg under the thousie mh if its hopeless

 

[TheCapn]

s1ing,

I said "bend and top" not BREAK and top.

Don't worry, I'm just kidding, this plant will be fine. This is the one you are going to veg for a couple more weeks, right? Tape it up, use a splint on it, just do whatever to immobilize it so it cant break more. Pretend it was your kid's broken leg. Don't try to bend it back up to close the gap, just immobilize it and let it go.

This is off topic here, but worth a read.. check out this quick story. In the past, I have read threads about people "supercropping" (kinking branches) and doing other things to their plant to "abuse" it, or "toughen" it up. At first I thought it was all BS but there IS some truth to it.

You know the plant in my article "how to 20oz"? IN case you forgot, here's a picture of it:

I had been growing ebb and flow in 3.5 gallon pots of grow-cubes, and averaging 12-14oz per plant. I started writing this article to show people how they could easily get 10oz using this grow method. Then, it was time to harvest this plant and WTF? 20oz dry yield? What did I do differently? nothing. The plant next to it was grown the same method, same nutrients, same strain, etc.

There were two things different about the 20oz plant.

1. This plant was from a different seed, and could have been a high yielding plant (I didn't save a clone)

2. This plant almost died. I had 3 plants in veg and left for vacation. I had set up an automated watering system on a timer. I didn't test it well, and the timer watered the plants the first day and drained the entire reservoir. When I came home after a week, this was the WORST of all 3 plants. I'm talking crispy leaves every where. Almost all the leaves were dead except for a few near the bottom of the plant. It was in a 6" hugo cube. When I picked up the cube, it was as light as it was when I bought it! I threw the plant in the trash, and then got it back out again. I cut most of the branches off it. I really wished I had a picture of it, but it was so bad. It came back slowly. After 6 weeks, it was a monster. It came back bigger and better than ever. The bionic plant.

That plant went on to produce 20oz, which currently is my biggest yield. Since then, I haven't done any experimenting in this area, but I think there may be some method to the madness of "abusing" your plants. Although it does extend out veg time a lot!

 

[OZ BRIT]

Wow...what an awesome read I'm subbed n hooked. I'm starting my first ever grow in a week or two (clones on order ). 9 each of AK47 and White Widow. Clay pebbles and coco being my mediums of choice. The little ladies will arrive in rockwool socks and will be planted in 3.5ltr pots. 2-3 weeks later they'll be transplanted into 5 gallon "buckets". Nutes wise; Canna A+B, Superthrive, Rhizotonic and PK13/14 for flower stage. My home made "tent" measures 1.8m wide x 2.8m long x 1.8m high. 3 x 600w HPS for lighting (maybe 4 if I can), 8" Ruck for extract, 3 oscillators for exercise lol. Induction will be via two ducted vents that are cut into the bottom of the tent (these allow the power cables into the tent) and will create a neg pressure. So, after that info, do you feel there's anything I should do to improve my chances of hitting my target of 5oz dry per plant?

 

[TheCapn]

Hey Oz, thanks for subscribing but I won't be adding to this article. For more info, subscribe to my blog (link in my signature).

5oz per plant in 5 gallon buckets is certainly do-able. However not if you have 18 plants and only 1800 watts.

Talking in feet here... you know we lazy Americans still haven't gotten on board with the rest of the metric world Your tent is roughly 6ft x 9ft and 6ft tall so that is about 54 sq feet, if you're able to use it ALL for growing. For your first grow, a really agressive goal would be one ounce per sq ft = 54 ounces (you might need more light for this). Or, about .75 grams per watt.

The footprint on a 600 watt light is about 4 x 4. You could use the entire 6 ft, just know that the plants on the sides might not get optimum light.

You didn't mention how you're going to irrigate, so I'm thinking you will drain to waste?

Your plans sound great, but are completely different than the way I grow so I'm probably not the best person to ask. I grow single, one pound plants, in rockwool cubes (top feed or ebb and flow), each plant with it's own 600W light. If I had your space and 18 plants, I would do it like s1ingblade used to do it. He used to grow 6 to 9 plants in 4 x 4 trays (each tray under a 100W light), drain to waste in sunshine mix #4, which is basically coco. He gets 1.5 - 2 oz per plant doing it that way. Now, however, s1ing is going bigger with only 4 plants per tray, growing in top feed rockwool cubes. He has found growth in the cubes is faster because you can irrigate more frequently.

Your idea to mix the coco with hydroton will allow you to irrigate more frequently, but the hydroton doesn't provide any space for roots to sink in... it just takes up space in the root zone. The roots have to grow around it.

Anyway, I could type forever on this subject. Either way you go it sounds like an exciting grow and you can't go wrong with AK and WW. Check out my "simple hydroponics" thread if you have any interest in going with the rockwool growcubes instead of coco.

Good luck and let me know when you get started.

 

[OZ BRIT]

Hi Capn. Thanks for the advice. Irrigation will be done manually (watering can with a "shower" type nozzle). I'm really on a tight budget . I've got a 4th 600w HPS promised to me so hopefully that will help. I'm getting loads of helpful advice off another member, Zoot, who is also UK based and kinda understands the different constraints we have here. Ultimately I'm planning 2 home grows prior to getting "premises" where I can be a bit more experimental and adventurous . I'll definitely subscribe to your threads though. Hey, knowledge is power lol

 

[Rx-420dank]

Awsome thread, A lot of really good info here. Ty for taking the time to make post like this for all the new growers.