Hydroponics Experience Growers Advice

Ok, so this is my setup.

VEG:
Size: 55x55x140cm (about 21x21x55 inches) although I only use the first 25" out of the 55" vertically available. So in theory I could have 2 levels.
Feed system: Drip (does not actually drip, it's a steady stream slowly flowing from a 1/4" tubing.)
Res: 10lt (2.6gl)
Nutrients: Advanced Nutrients Iguana Juice Grow. 3.5 ml/lt
Lights: 4x 2ft fluorescent tubes (2 warm light, 2 cool) standing upright in the corners of the 21x21 space. Hanging from above I have 2 sets of 2x 100w CFLs with a reflector hood. Basically they form 2 rows, on one I keep the bigger plants and on the other the clones/seedlings.
Medium: RW cubes. 1.5" for new clones and seedlings. Transfer to 4" cubes once the clone has survived.
Light Schedule: ON at 22:00 OFF at 16:00 (18/6)
RH: 45% (increases a little during feeding then drops back)
PPM: N/A
PH: 7.0 - I grow organic so there aren't many products that can help me (market is very limited here). I used to use phosphoric acid as a ph down but I believe it overloaded the plants with phosphorus, I think this is why you see small sparks sometimes (most times, really) when I smoke. So for now it's on trials.
Feeding Schedule: ON/OFF at 23:00/23:15 - 7:00/7:15 - 15:00/15:15 Total feed time: 45 minutes a day
Ventilation: small fan to move air around, no intake or output.
Pump: Sicce Aquarium pump 2600lt/hr (685gl/hr). The flow is too much so I regulate it with a common valve, I don't use a smaller pump because I need the pressure that a smaller one cannot provide

There's also a small aquarium air pump with two outlets, one for each res, each has an air stone for O2. this runs 24/7

Nothing fancy about the workings of this part
On the base of the space described I have a plastic flood table or tray (they don't sell those here so I made one out of a common plastic storage box that had the required measurements.) The tray has a hole in the middle which has a nozzle that connects to a hose that goes into the res (which is located directly below) so the excess water that drips onto the tray when feeding goes right back into the res.
The cubes just sit there on the tray, there's no buckets or pellets or anything fancy. The tray is there only to keep water form spilling on the floor and to channel it into the hole for recirculation. A small fan is there to provide air movement but not powerful enough to bend or damage the young ones.
The pump is connected to a 1/2" hose that connects to a 4-way distributor after passing though the aforementioned valve so I can reduce the flow. The distributor has 4 outlets for 1/4" black tubing which in turn get separated using tees if I need to water more than 4 plants (usually the case). So why not a distributor with more outlets? they don't sell them here. So just making lemonade out of lemons.
So nothing too complicated, it took some testing to get the flow rates right and I switched pumps and hoses a couple of times but now it runs smoothly and virtually unattended.

FLOWER
Size: same as veg
Feed system: Ebb & Flood
Res: 20lt (5,2gl)
Nutrients: A.N. Iguana Juice Bloom. 3.5ml/lt
Lights: 400w HPS + 7 100w CFLs hanging low between the foliage
Medium: Hydroton clay pellets (pea sized, about 6mm) and RW
Light Schedule: ON at 22:00 OFF at 10:00 (12/12)
RH: 45%. Increases to about 65% during feeding then drops back
PPM: N/A
PH: 7.0 (same explanation)
Feeding Schedule: ON/OFF at 23:00/23:15 - 3:00/3:15 - 9:00/9:15
Ventilation: powerful fan on top pulling the hot air out of the cabinet (not a tent, I built a wooden structure). Another fan (same as the top) pushing fresh air into the cabinet from the side and below, this one helps move the air around the base of the plants, and another fan to just move some air around the top and middle sections.

Same as the other side, there's a flood table on the base, although with different dimensions. It is filled 3/4 up with 6mm hydroton pellets (don't remember the exact amount) and this where I bury the 4" cubes (with a plant ready to flower, of course). So far I've only been flowering 3 at a time, because of the very limited space, but I'm in the process of getting more space and I hope to accommodate 6 plants for the next cycle (which will be due the first week of October)

This flood table has 2 holes on the bottom, one of them has an overflow pipe so when the water gets to the level I want (the length of the pipe from the bottom of the table to where the overflow starts pouring into the pipe) it flows back into the res for recirculation via a hose connected to the bottom (from underneath, the res is also beneath the table) and through the other hole the water gets pumped in for 15 minutes, when the pump shuts off gravity takes over and all the water in the table flows back into the res through the pump. This is your basic E&F system.

I only grow for myself so I don't need to have 20+ plants, I couldn't smoke all that even if all I do is smoke all day and all night. That's why I built a small system and grow short plants (I'm harvesting about 40gr of dried goodies, no stems, sticks, leaves, etc. just pure buds, per plant, that may not sound like a lot but if you take into consideration that the plants grow in such a confined space and they don't get taller than 70 cm I think I'm doing pretty good. Overall it comes down to about 60gr per month, which is twice of what I usually use, so I still have some left to 'cover the expenses' of electricity and maintenance). But everything can be extrapolated to accommodate any growing requirements.

I think I covered everything, but if anything is unclear I'll be happy to explain or elaborate.

Even though I think that I've probably reached the highest yield I can get with the current space, I'm very open to any suggestions.

Good luck and Happy Growing!!
 
Hello GreatLife4All,
The more I read and need help on my problem here the more I'm confusion.
so when you have the time check out my system and give me your advice .
I'll use best advice from you guys and add to my system or my grow.
I try to be a happy grower for over a year now still no good.
Thank you
 
Hello oldman60,
Thank you for your reply, I like your last sentence it realy chear me up a lot, and yea I like to know how to dialed in with my system and yes I like to swimming in buds that for sure.
 
First comment on your grow space.

Your grow space looks unorganized and cluttered - you are not using the light that you have in an efficient manner.

A 1000W HID will throw off usable light in a 5'x5'x5' space. This means that we need to concentrate the plants into this space. In order to get good yields - each plant will need a minimum of 4 square foot of floor space to complete flowering.

I will assume that your light rail moves 10'.

So we have a 5' x 10' section of usable light under each light rail. If we subdivide this equally - we end up with 8 2.5 ft squares. So we have 2 rows of buckets, each row will have 4 buckets in it. So there will be 8 buckets under each light. Each bucket should end up in the middle of one of these squares - and be equal distance from every other neighboring bucket.

With this organization, and the fact that you have three lights, you can now run 24 buckets in the same space that you are currently running 15 - and the plants will not suffer as they have plenty of room and usable light.

So even if every plant yields the same as your previous grows - you have increased the number of plants by 60% - and thus your yield will increase by 60%.
 
Knowing that your light is restricted to reach only 5 foot from the source - this puts a practical limit on the size of the plants that you can grow. Given that we want to keep the light a minimum of 1 foot from the plant - the maximum effective size for a plant is going to be 4 foot.

What does that tell us? It indicates at what stage we can start to flower and get maximum yield from our plants and space. A white widow in an RDWC system should grow to about 2.5 to 3.0 times it's initial size in flowering. So if we place a WW into flowering when it is 12" tall - it should end up 30 to 36" tall.

For your space, lights, and the variety that you are growing - you should start the flowering cycle when the plants are 16 to 18 inches tall.

This will ensure that the plants get to the proper size to fill the 2.5 foot space that we have allocated. It will also ensure that the plant has the physical size to use all the light generated by a 1,000W HID.
 
On nutrient management.

You are running the plants way too cool on nutrients, IMO. At the peak of flowering, I will typically run 1400ppm to 1500ppm for White Widow - the plant loves higher levels of nutrients. When I clone - I try to start them at 800ppm for veg, increase them to 1200 for transition, and then hit 1400 during the early part of the bloom stage.

You are using the common recommendation for seedlings (1/4 to 1/2 of recommended nutrient strength) - but you are growing from clones.

A clone can handle whatever PPM it's mother was exposed to. You don't have to start it out at 200 to 300 PPM. You will limit it's growth if you don't provide proper nutrients at all times. If you don't know the PPMs of the mother - a safe place to start is around 600-800ppm.

As a plant grows, it's ability to handle higher levels of nutrients increases. Most nutrient companies will increase the nutrient solution PPM until they reach the final stages of flowering - and then back off for the ripen phase.

For a white widow clone - we can break it's life cycle down into the following stages:

Clone - 2 weeks
Growth - 2 weeks
Aggressive Growth - 1 week (may take longer to reach 18" height)
Transition - 2 weeks
Bloom - 3 weeks
Aggressive Bloom - 2 week
Ripen - 1 week

The plant needs different things in the nutrient solution during each of these stages. For example, during growth and aggressive growth phases - nitrogen and potassium are critical. During the Bloom phase - phosphorus and potassium become critical.

I don't know what your level of knowledge is surrounding plant nutrient needs in each of these phases. But I would strongly suggest that you follow along with a known successful plan (such as what KingJohnC has posted links to) - until you achieve success in your growing operation. Once you have achieved success, it is time to start using nutrient additives to increase your yield.

By following along with the standard plan that has been provided by your nutrient company - you can get very good yields without having to understand the plants needs at each stage.

Providing the plant exactly what it needs at each stage of it's life cycle will enhance growth and final yield.

One other comment, according to your descriptions you have a nutrient reservoir that is connected directly to your system. You top off this nutrient reservoir with R/O water. And then you only change the nutrient solution every two to three weeks. This schedule is severely limiting your plant's growth potential.

There are three elements that plants need at all times - N, P, and K. These elements are quickly taken out of the nutrient solution and stored in the plant (similiar to a human storing fat for later use). The process of storing these nutrients, and then taking them out of storage for use when the plant needs it is inefficient... and thus you are again limiting growth.

With as many plants as you have on one system - the N,P, and K will be gone from the nutrient solution in one or two days. And then you don't add any more for up to 3 weeks. With an 8 week flowering cycle, the plants are spending at least 2/3 of their time short on N,P, and K - being forced to relocate it from other parts of the plant to survive.

So you have one of two choices - change your nutrient solution every week... or add another reservoir between your RDWC reservoir and the R/O water, fill this with special nutrient solution, and then top off your RDWC system using this instead of R/O water. This will give your plants a constant supply of N,P, and K and will enhance yield. If your system holds 100 gallons of water - you can fill this extra reservoir with 100 gallons of nutrient solution. You then clean out your system and start with new nutrients when the extra 100 gallons is gone. This is an advanced technique and I would prefer that you just change your system out ever week for the first run - that way you won't have to make any changes.

And my final thoughts on nutrient management. Undoubtedly one of the reasons the plants look stringy is the higher heat that you have in your grow room - 75 is commony considered the max temperature without supplementing CO2. Since you are running your grow room a little hot - you should add Silicon to the nutrient solution. This will help the plant to tolerate (and even thrive) under the warmer conditions present in your grow room.
 
On your hydroponics system.

You seem to be running some kind of combination Ebb and Flow and RDWC system.

I would strongly prefer that you run one of the other - and you will get better yields from an RDWC system.

To effect this change, you simply get rid of the drip ring. You then need a 3/4" inlet and a 3/4" outlet at the bottom of each bucket. You have two rows of 4 buckets under each light. So we connect each row together by connecting the outlet of the first bucket to the inlet of the second bucket. The outlet of the second bucket is connected to the inlet of the 3rd bucket. The outlet of the 3rd bucket is connected to the inlet of the 4th bucket. The outlet on the 4th bucket is run back to the reservoir where it is connected to a 'Y' fitting.

The inlet for the first bucket in each row should be your reservoir tank - a 3/4" fitting at the bottom.

Build the second row of buckets in the same fashion. Connect the outlet of the 4th bucket to the same 'Y' as the outlet from the fourth bucket of the first row.

The 'Y' is then connected to an inline pump (1000 gph for your system) - and the outlet from the inline pump is run back to the top of the reservoir.

This will force the water to flow through every bucket in the system - starting from the reservoir and ending at the pump. Because you have lots of dissolved oxygen in the water - the roots can stay submerged 24 hours a day without damage.

You then set the water level in each bucket based on the water level of the reservoir.

This allows you to get rid of the drip ring. You can adjust the level of the water so that it is touching the bottom of the plant roots by adding more water to the reservoir. You can then also lower the water below the net pots as the plant grows by simply lowering the water level in the reservoir. Very easy to manage.
 
In the interest of simplicity and to eliminate potential problems, I would simplify my grow medium as well.

Just use Hydroton - though I would prefer you to use Grow Stones. Get rid of the rock wool that is in the net pots - it is not needed and is an unnecessary complication.

No matter what - you want all the plant roots to be at the same level within the RDWC system. It is best if you get the plant roots to touch the bottom of the net pot when you put them into the system. The water level is then adjusted to be just touching the bottom of the net pots - and the air stones do throw enough nutrient solution up onto the young roots for them to grow down into the solution.

You indicated that the roots are too short to touch the bottom of the large net pots that you are using.

If this is the case, measure the average length of the roots. Measure the depth of the net pots. Subtract these two numbers and fill up the bottom of the net pot to this depth with your growth medium. Then place the plant into the net pot with the roots spread out as much as possible. Fill the rest of the net pot with your growth medium.

Because the roots are not at the bottom of the net pot - you need to run the water level so that it just touches the bottom of the roots - even if it covers the bottom of the net pot. You know how much medium you put into the bottom of the pots (let's say 1") - so when you set your water level, simply ensure that it covers the bottom of the pot by 1" - and everything will work just fine.

As the plants roots grow - always ensure that you have 1/3 of the roots in the air, and 2/3s of the roots covered by nutrient solution. This provides the right mixture of air to water for the roots to thrive.
 
Big thank you to every one too try helping me out, you guy give me some of your succesful experience that are not to come by. I been read books and search every day in the internet for year still didn't have that much good info. Like you guy give me here.
I'll change my system to rdwc system use advices from greatlife4all like his set up and some good points from rodrigo & kingjohnc feeding charge i know i will doing good.
After i get it to work and when i fell comfortable with i 'll post my grow thread.
Agan thank you for everyone to spend time and help me out with your succesful experience .
 
the only additives and nutrients i would use on your grow right now are calcium and magnesium supplement because you have reverse osmosis water, General Hydroponics Flora series, Liquid Koolbloom and Hydrozyme. i would follow the General Hydroponics nutrient schedule for nutrients. that should give you a reliable grow. i hope you have reduced your watering times, you should see your plants begin to grow well.
 
I flush and changed the nutrients by using 1 cup of Cal/Mag , Mic. , Grow , Bloom & 1/8 Superthrive , RapitStart with OR water ( the PH:5.8 and the PPM: 500 Temp: 68*f ) for the last two days I start see some new grow, but they are only 3 fingers leafs, they grow tall but skinny so I top some of them.
The plants are veg. for 3 weeks now and I see some white roots grow out to the side and bottom of the 10" nest pots , I don't want to put them in sock anymore so I'm thinking too change my set up to straight RDWC after this batch.

? KingJohnC do you think my air lift top feed 25 minutes 3 time a day light on only that too much ?
O I still use like dwc ( water fill up the bottom of the nest pots for 2 hrs. them drain back to the 90 gals. res. for 1 hrs. 24 / 7 ) by doing this I think i can get the water to mix fresh o2 & nutr. + the water chiller can keep the temp. at 68*f in the 90 gals. res. so all the buckets have the fresh mix water every hrs. If this is not a good idea please let me know.

* I'm planning to build an sealed room with Co2 and AC with 12,000 Watt air cool hoods , but I don't know if I use soil or hyro.
soil are a lot easyer and if I use hyro. I can have a lot of good idea from you guy here , like GreatLife4All set up.
for sure I don't want to make another mistake on this one .
 
i have not used a air lift top feed myself. i believe you have too many systems that are keeping your plants too wet. the air lift top feed may be unnecessary. i would just use the recirculating deep water culture system itself.
 
KingJohnC said:
i believe your feed schedule is on too much as well, i would set your feed schedule to 3x15 minute per day.
Click to expand...

Good point.

Using rockwool combined with hydroton - two times per day is likely more than sufficient. I have read on here where some guys simply do it one time per day right before lights on.
 
Thank you very much KingJohnC & GreatLife4All ,
I will set my timemer for the air lift top feed to have 15 minute two time a day light on.
I wait for fell more day when more roots are grow out of the side nest pot to the nutrients then i'll turn off the air lift top feed and just use the recirculating deep water culture system only.
I thought when I use air lift top feed is to help me feed the young clones to grow more roots all arrow the net pot so I can have bigger roots mass, I try with out the top feed last time and I only have fell roots from the bottom net pot only.
 
As long as the roots are touching the nutrient solution and you have a good air stone - you should have no problems getting them started in the DWC system.

I use an Ebb and Flow system for space reasons. I am currently running two flowering tents - and one veg tent in a grow room. One grow tent kept in veg feeds the other two. With an ebb and flow system - I can house twice as many small plants. Or lots of small plants and a few mothers. The transition from an E&F system to the DWC is very easy on the plants. There is also little noticeable growth difference during veg phase.

The flood cycle also allows me to soak the roots well so that they grow quickly during the veg cycle. By the time that they are ready to be put into the DWC at the beginning of flower - the roots easily reach and cover the bottom of a 6" net pot. Thus I simply ensure that the nutrient solution touches the bottom of the net pot as well - and the roots immediately start growing down into the solution.

I also read above that you were looking for a simpler way to grow - and that soil was a possibility. With the set up that you have - there is a grow style using soil that I think you could be very successful with - here is a link to the grow journal. This guy has several grows using this same exact style - and he always pulls off monster harvests with a very simple process:

Power Plant

:goodluck: to you my friend!
 

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