Inside grow lights

[iLlama]

Hello everybody,

I have just registered as I am planning on starting growing inside and I would be thankful for some info to start with. I have all space in the world (huge house). I only grew outside till this day and since inside growing is something absolutely different I will start with 1 plant at a time, but I want to upgrade to 4-6 plants later on. To be honest I have no idea about size difference of inside grow from outside (plant outside is currently around 2,3 meters long - on purpose, it could be taller) and it looks like Christmass tree.

I was trying to catch some information flow during last few months and ended up with "cree cobs" being "the best", but somehow figured that it would be hard for me to get all the parts needed for building them from scratch in my country and that the price would be way too high, I was planning to go with 3500k 80/90 cri as it seemed for me as best option (spectrum etc...), but I have came to conclusion that I will stick with "led strips" after all, here is the deal... I am absolutely lost which one should I get. I will have to get the strips from digikey and I can have driver from mouser.

I am planning on going full cycle grow. My first idea was to somehow mix 3000k + 3500k strips together. My aim is to have as healthy plants as possible and going with quality over quantity. As mentioned before I have big area to grow, but I want to start small to learn everything and eventually add some supportive lights, so i can perfect it later on and grow big then.

I am terribly lost in differences between all those "samsung series", so could anyone please point me in right direction what to actually get for the best possible spectrum and quality buds?

So far I was thinking about: "SI-B8V261560WW" - digi key: 1510-2217-ND - 3000k - F series
and "SI-B8U261560WW" - digi key: 1510-2218-ND - 3500k - F series

but then....there is "H inFlux~" - "SL-B8V2N80LAWW" - digi key: 1510-2446-ND
and we also have Q-series....

I am somehow hoping for the answer in type of: "go with X series and evenly mix the 3000k with 3,5k and 4k strips" to have the best possible output" and some brief explanation why to go with that particular series and not with the other.

Kind Regards

 

[Stunned]

@PurpleGunRack would be one of the best people to speak up on this one
There are minor differences between the different series but they are all great
Alot depends on whether you want to go with the strip layout of a regular board layout
Your grow space will dictate this
Then as long as you follow basic rules for watts per sq feet, I would think any of the Quantum series would do right by you?
If I'm missing something here, anyone chime in

 

[iLlama]

Thank you for your prompt answer and yes, he is actually the reason why I made my topic on this forum, so thank you for tagging him. (I was secretly hoping for him replying in here )

And I will follow anything, I just do want to do any major f*ck ups at the beginning or buying some stuff (strips) that will be useless for my needs. That's why my first post is that long as I tried to be as much detailed as possible.

My grow space is pretty much infinite, it can be triangle, it can be square, it can be line...(no tent yet and wondering if I should actually get one, or build some wall with reflexive foil around plants as tent would limit my grow area).

As mentioned before I never grew anything inside and I'm actually "bit" worried about it.

 

[Stunned]

If anything I would think growing inside is easier than growing outside because you have complete control over your environment. Get the lighting right and your vent/airflow right and you should be golden

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Welcome to the forum @iLlama


Plant size indoors primarily depends on strain, veg time and pot size.

The first thing you have to figure out is how much weed you want to grow?

And to some extent what type of strain(s) you want to grow.

It's an important point that you buy all the parts you need in 1 order, mass discount, shipping fees, VAT etc. come into play and buying over two orders can significantly increase to cost of the build.

Where are you in the world? Just roughly, so we can reduce import taxes as much as possible.

Quality over quantity depends on the strain more than anything else, get good ''expensive'' seeds and take clones is the best advice.
If you want good landrace sativas Ace is the place to go, if you want elite genetics there are many small/new breeders offering nice stuff, my personal favorite is In House Genetics.



The choice in strips is pretty simple: H inFlux L04 or L06 @ 3000K all the way.

Why H inFlux: Best diode and best price per LM301b diode, Q-series costs ~15% more and the diode density is too low, which means it's harder to concentrate the light and that you need more heatsink/frame.
F-series makes sense in larger builds where a shitload of the 1120mm strips comes in handy

Why 3000K: Best strip CCT for flowering.


Mixing CCTs makes little sense and it's mostly a selling point some companies use, or an idea based on assumption some growers apply to their grow room.
Again, mass discount at Digi-key is one of the posts where you can save a lot of money by buying smart

Even if you wanted to have a separate veg room, I'd still go with 3000K for that to get mass discount on the strips, 3000K vegs wonderfully, and having the possibility to use one's veg room for flowering can be very useful at times

If you want to add to the spectrum it's better to get some of the stuff you don't get from strips, like Far Red 730nm.
Getting Photo Red 660nm for added flower power could also be a good idea, the new Solskin strips from Cutter looks very interesting.


You need at least one tent or separate room for clones and mothers, other than that just hang up some panda film or build some small reflective walls you can move around.
You basically build the lamps as big as the area they're supposed to cover in flower.

 

[iLlama]

Wow, thank you very much, I really appreciate your reply.

My country is Czech Republic, it's still gonna be pain to obtain some parts, I guess I will snap 25 of the strips at a time for the discount and will slowly start to build my setup. It will take some time though. I guess I will start planning tomorrow how to divide it all and if to go with H4 or H6, eventually H6 is gonna pay off as the price difference between H4 and H6 is not that big...

So the only difference between H4 & H6 is that H4 has lower wattage output (eh, maybe we will miss here because of my lack of english).

For some reason I wanted to go with F-Series, but after your reply, no more doubts.

Eventually thinking about taking 4 for the start (H6 - SL-B8V3N80LAWW) with HLG 185h - 24A, try the setup and if it works out, get those 25 later on. One has to start somewhere.

As I said I have pretty much infinite grow space and rooms (damn big basement and one whole unused flat at a house)


Once again, I really appreciate your time and effort you put into your reply. Thank you very much.


PS: your grow journal is just awesome!

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Sooo, do you wanna grow for yourself or do you wanna grow a lot?


It's L04 and L06, not H

The difference is the number of diodes, and thereby the max current on the strip.
L04 has 64 diodes.
L06 has 88 diodes.

Eventually thinking about taking 4 for the start (H6 - SL-B8V3N80LAWW) with HLG 185h - 24A, try the setup and if it works out,

It works


Look at TME.eu for drivers, it's a very good Polish electronics supplier, Conrad Elektronik is German and has wago connectors and wire.
A lot of EU growshops have climate control equipment and grow gear, I prefer Growland (DE) and Servovendi (ES).

 

[iLlama]

Thank you for all the tips.

Meanwell seems to have local distributor here and it looks like the best option (same price as TME, but goes directly from my country), we have grow shops around the country (even though some were banned a while ago), they all seem to be way overpriced (that was actually the reason I am going with DIY as it get like twice as cheap than it would be if I bought light there). I might be able to snap wagos and other wires in some local electronic shop.

To answer your question: in the beginning I want it to have this pretty much for me and few friends, but I would like to go big then - eventually. There is plenty of time for that though and I have a lot of learning before me!

I have found heat sink supplier, I hope U profile will be sufficient as it's pretty much "only" option I have, I was also wondering about solid plate, but I don't think that's needed for 5 strips total that are going to be 10cm spaced from each other to make square and fan for air circulation in the room/tent. Now I am just trying to picture how to make frame from that (I can't have 5 strips flying in the air ). Most likely I will add 1cm to the sides and connect it together with 2 extra heatsinks and eventually 1 diagonal to make it more solid.

Also after thinking I want to go with 5 of the strips - SL-B8V3N80LAWW (H6 ), but even after watching Growmau5 videos again, I am somehow afraid of picking driver on my own and blowing my strips. I mean... I just was not able to find the one that should fit me, which is most likely because I am lost in some meanings.


Pretty much if I am not mistaken the max current the led strips can run is 2,2A, if current goes above that, it will blow. Also I should (or want) to run them at around 60-70% of strips current (I was thinking about running them at 1,8A - ok, this is 80%) and at like 80-90% of driver capacity, right? (I guess I read it's best for the driver somehwere)... "A" version of drivers got in built potentiometer, "B" version I can use my own...- I would stick with A version here as I don't think I need to go lower than 50%.

Eh, but I am kinda lost in what version of driver should I get in order not to blow the strips. At 1,8A, 5 of those strips should give me around 200W, right? My best guess is go with - HLG-240H-24A (for some unknows reason) and I have not found any other version between 185 and 240. I am almost sure that "HLG-240H" part is correct, I just don't know which version should I pick among that series.

I am lost what's that "10A Rated current" in the documentation under 24A, I mean shouldn't it be like under 2,2A to not blow the strips? (that's where I am lost in this).


In A version voltage and constant current level can be adjusted through internal potentiometer, so pretty much I just choose 1,8A and the voltage I want to use and then I will only lower the current if I will want to dim the lights? If so, I am afraid of accidentally turning it higher than it should be and blowing my lights.

I guess that should be enough for the beginning and to get in touch with indoor growing.

King regards

 

[Stunned]

Things get so complicated
My upcoming grow in about 2 weeks time is going to be 4 plants
under 2 HLG 260 watt XW fixtures in a 5X5 tent
Is it perfect light coverage? No
Am I somewhat confident that I'll produce awesome bud? Yes

 

[iLlama]

Sorry for double post. I just can't edit it anymore after it'S been liked. (uh, thanks Stunned for post you've just made before I finished this writings, it's not double post anymore. )

I am lost what's that "10A Rated current" in the documentation under 24A, I mean shouldn't it be like under 2,2A to not blow the strips? (that's where I am lost in this).

Do I simply divide current by the strips I add beacuse it's connected in paralel series? therefore aforementioned driver will run max 2A at 24V becaus of 5 strips? (this is based on few pictures I saw on the internet when I was trying to educate myself about it)

This is from "Battery Pairings: Series vs Parallel", but I suppose same laws apply here, either way I would rather have some confirmation.

Is it perfect light coverage? No
Am I somewhat confident that I'll produce awesome bud? Yes

haha, this is nice deduction.


Kind regards

 

[PurpleGunRack]

Meanwell HLG drivers stay above 90% efficiency when you run them at 50% of their capacity, so don't worry about that, maxing out drivers being much better is a myth.

Parallel wiring = Divide Ampere
Serial wiring = Divide Volt

When calculating the load percentages of the strips you have to include Volt since it's determined by either the Ampere output of the driver or the setting on the dimmer.

HLG 185h - 24A can give the strips 27V and 7,8A
HLG 240h - 24A can give the strips 25,6V and 10A

Personally I would either do 4 strips on a HLG 185h - 24A, or 6 strips on a HLG 240h - 24A, but you can do 5 strips on a 240 if you like.
However, you have to take cooling of the strips into consideration, so the harder you run them, the bigger heatsink you need (or active cooling)

U-channel is fine for heatsink if you get 30x20x2mm it'll be fine running each strip at 50w AC with just a standard air extraction in the tent/room.

 

[bluter]

Thanks PGR.

very informative. looking hard at different strips and qbs for the future. i run mean well "b's" for the dimming, is there any advantage to running the "a's" over b that you are aware of ?

kinda relearning everything again from a different perspective, i had a book of notes on building for cobs and dunno what i did with it

 

[Stunned]

I saw a video from LED Gardner the other day who said that the version B drivers will only output the exact power that it is rated for
i.e. if it's a 240, then 240 watts is max, whereas the A version will output slightly more than rated
so, up to 260 watts as opposed to 240.
Other than that, the dimming on the A version is done via a screw on the top of the driver that is recessed, so you'd need a jeweler's type tool
The B version has a dimming option via a wired connection to the driver that allows it to be remotely placed away from the driver
Hope this helps

 

[PurpleGunRack]

i run mean well "b's" for the dimming, is there any advantage to running the "a's" over b that you are aware of ?

One is not better than the other, they both have advantages and disadvantages depending on how you use them or how you want to be able to use them.

A type: Internal potentiometer operated by using a small phillips head screwdriver.
The Constant Voltage drivers have both V and A dimmer, the Constant Current drivers only have an A dimmer.
Which means the type A Constant Voltage drivers can run the units harder than their B counterparts, because the voltage can be turned a bit higher than the B drivers.
These are good for small and medium builds if you want it to be easy and cheap.

B type: Leads for soldering/connecting a potentiometer or a controller.
The thing about these is that you can have the leads from multiple drivers in a bigger operation running to an external control board with dimmers and meters for each driver and operate it outside the grow room.
In my opinion this is waaaaaay too much wiring and soldering, when you can just get Zigbee controllers and control drivers via an app on your phone which can also be set to automatically increase/decrease the output throughout the cycle
This is a more expensive option than getting the A type drivers, but it makes sense in bigger operations where you want to have full control without having to manually adjust every single driver.

 

[Stunned]

he always says it better than I do lol

 

[iLlama]

Personally I would either do 4 strips on a HLG 185h - 24A, or 6 strips on a HLG 240h - 24A, but you can do 5 strips on a 240 if you like.

Damn! It means I will have to redraw my sketch.

6 then.

But with that driver, I won't be able to run them at full power, even if I wanted, or would I? Just out of curiosity, wouldn't be 320H better option for running 6 strips than 240H?

According to that reply:

Meanwell HLG drivers stay above 90% efficiency when you run them at 50% of their capacity, so don't worry about that, maxing out drivers being much better is a myth.

With 240H, if I run strips at 1,8A (which I wont be able, or will I?) at 22,4V it makes 40W per strip * 6 = 240W and that seems like kinda full load for that driver and I can't go higher than that. Eventually I could with A version based on Stunned's reply that A can go a little higher than 240W, but still...seems to be a little on the edge for me.


I mean if it's this:

HLG 240h - 24A can give the strips 25,6V and 10A

If I lower the Volts of the driver to 22,4V, I divide 10A by 6 it makes 1,66..A, or does it go higher if I lower voltage of the driver? That's why I though 5 of the strips would have been better. (but well, you are the one who understands it, so I guess there is some reasoning behind that or my not understanding here. )

U-channel is fine for heatsink if you get 30x20x2mm it'll be fine running each strip at 50w AC with just a standard air extraction in the tent/room.

Even though I wanted to go with 25x20x2 for solid look (strips should be 24mm), I guess it won't hurt if I go with 30mm heatsink. This does not really matter.

And even though it seems nice to be able to cool strips enough to get 50W from them, wouldn't I need different driver for that? (as mentioned above) Well, not planning to run them at 50W anyway, but for some reason I was aiming to to get 40W from them.

he always says it better than I do lol

Can't agree more, I mean even though your reply was nice, nothing can compare with PurpleGunRack's replies. #Sorry

Kind regards

 

[PurpleGunRack]

You want to run the strips at 50-75% of their max rating, being able to turn it up to ~75% is a very nice possibility to have and you might as well choose a driver that can't overpower the strips or give them more or less power than you need

Damn! It means I will have to redraw my sketch.

Not neccesarily, 5 strips is fine on either a 185 or a 240, but with the 185 you can ''only'' run the strips at around 70% of max, and with the 240 you can run the strips above 90% and some of the potential of the driver is lost.
4 strips on a 185 max at around 80% and 6 strips on a 240 max at around 75%.
If you're set on 5 strips, I'd go with the 185 it's cheaper and if you crank both V and A to max you might get up to 75% which is kinda the max sweet spot for middle power diodes being passively cooled.

But with that driver, I won't be able to run them at full power, even if I wanted, or would I? Just out of curiosity, wouldn't be 320H better option for running 6 strips than 240H?

It would be able to overpower the strips, so you would have to hook up a multimeter when adjusting output.

Even though I wanted to go with 25x20x2 for solid look (strips should be 24mm), I guess it won't hurt if I go with 30mm heatsink. This does not really matter.

25mm is fine if you intend to use thermal tape, but if you want to use nuts and bolts 30mm is the minimum if you want to be able to fit any kind of nut on the inside of the U-channel.




You have to discriminate between watt DC and watt AC, aka output and input.

When you try to calculate wattage you have to multiply V with A to get w DC (this is the watt that goes into the strips) to calculate the draw you have to multiply watt DC with 1+ driver inefficiency (usually 0,05 to 0,1 (or 5-10%))

A HLG 185h - 24A is able to draw around 227w AC at 230V input
Calculated from driver specs: 27 Volt * 7,8 Ampere = 210,6 watt DC * 1,06 =223,2 watt AC.
Calculated backwards from actual draw: 227w AC * 0,94 = 213w DC.

When you learn to know how to do these calculations you'll always come very close to what you measure in real life.
There will be a slight inaccuracy because the driver specs are based on 110V AC, efficiency will be a tiny bit lower at 230V AC, the watt meter might be a little inaccurate, the driver might put out a tiny bit more or less V and/or A than stated etc.

Drivers always take a cut of the power to convert AC to DC, the type of driver and dimming level determines the percentage.

 

[iLlama]

Oh my gosh! you are the best! Really thank you very much for all your detailed answers and effort you put into your replies, you can't even imagine how much you have helped me!

The die is cast. I went with 6strips, HLG 240H 24A after all. This thread will be source for all my future informations. ^^ I mean everything needed is written here.

When it all arives the real fun with assembling will begin.

and wtf: I have ordered the strips last night / literally 20 hours ago (yup, checked my email for that) and they are already in my country from USA?! how the heck did they do that?! Even our post is not delivering like that!

Edit: Hopefully one of the last question (ok, I suppose we all know this is far from last question...but at least for now) - What spacing between strips do you recommend? - H6 i Flux (SL-B8V3N80LAWW)

I was thinking around 11cm between each strip Is that too low or too much? (I won't use tent at the beginning, I will do some reflective walls around) This is last thing I need to know before placing my order on aluminium stuffs. Getting wagos next week and well, I can start assembling. (uh, let's hope my order from DG will go smoothly through customs, it's in Prague though)

 

[PurpleGunRack]

and wtf: I have ordered the strips last night / literally 20 hours ago (yup, checked my email for that) and they are already in my country from USA?! how the heck did they do that?! Even our post is not delivering like that!

Yeah, I usually recieve my orders from digi-key 3 days after I've ordered, our postal service takes 1-9 days for domestic letters/packages

Edit: Hopefully one of the last question (ok, I suppose we all know this is far from last question...but at least for now) - What spacing between strips do you recommend? - H6 i Flux (SL-B8V3N80LAWW)

It's really about how much intensity you want versus how big an area you want to cover, 6 strips will cover 90x60cm for flowering, but with reflective walls you can add 10-20cm to that.
11cm between each strip sound like a plan, but do yourself a favor and build a frame where you can move the strips

 

[iLlama]

I would like to thank everybody who contributed to this thread, but especially @PurpleGunRack

Without him, I wouldn't be able to assemble it at all! So big thank to you! I really appreciate all your help.

I am still waiting for that damn thermal tape........ (should arrive this week), but I was impatient, so I had to try the leds.

Here is cca price for the whole build (I have exact number home in excel), I got wagos and wire in local store for about 9$

160$ for 6x led strips
70$ for driver
50$ for frame (could be cheaper, but I had to pay extra 15$ for uncut U profiles. and I know I could go lighter, but.... Eh) - profiles are:
L - 2x - 30x30x4 (little overkill, I know)
L - 2x - 25x25x3 - this with other L makes the frame
U - 6x - 30x15x3 - for strips
Flat - 1x 70x5 - for holding the driver in the middle.
Screws were for like 0,5$ lmao. I also needed new drill for 0,8$

I think it's pretty much all I needed. There was some postage and 14$ for thermal conductive tape (which I'm still waiting for! D

So it's around 310$ for me and it can take 210W from socket when I tried it.

This is run at potentiometer on minimum - 24V, 50% current takes 87watts from socket.


Also I have to run strips at 23V+ in order potentiometer to work. If it's lower, it lights on the minimum and takes like 18W from socket, which is 3W per strip.... And current goes 14mA...when I turn up the volts, it goes higher and potentiometer starts to work, so I can adjust the lighting. (I'm gonna run them at 24,8V) and adjust current.

Here are some screenshots I made last night. I literally spent like 2-3 hours wondering why the potentiometer did not work... It almost made me cry, but we figured it out. (well, my brother told me to put more volts from the driver and then it started to work).

I will most likely write some DIY, there won't be much pictures as my frame is pretty much assembled (I just need to stick thermal tape and strips on U profiles).

Also that lighting is insane when run at 200W.

I have germinated 2 seedlings in last few days, and planted them yesterday and today into small pot, currently on window trying to take advantage from sun before that damn tape comes in! Then those two will go under the lights later on.