Is My Potting Soil Too Hot? Commercial Soil Analysis

[cbdhemp808]

The listed NPK in living soil requires Microbes to maintain them, and to actually make them available to your plants. If environmental factors go afoul then the balance will be disrupted.

Hmm, people grow in Ocean Forest, for example, which is sterilized (AFAIK) and has no added microbes. Happy Frog has added humic acid and microbes.

My understanding is that the added myco, bacteria, and enzymes greatly increase the bioavailability of the nutrients. Also, microbe-friendly things like humic acid, fulvic acid, biochar.

A hot soil can mean one of two things to me.

1. A non living soil contains far to much N, P, or K, causing lockouts or Nute burn.

2. A living soil has cooked before cultivation and nutrients have become volatile.

Can't a living soil have too much N, for example, and cause nute burn?

 

[TorturedSoul]

You've tested the statement that you keep claiming to be false, lol? And you used a 15-gallon quantity of that growing mix, as its product page suggests?

BtW, you do realize that the web page you've linked to is sort of like a "Hey, are you a stoner? SO ARE WE!" blog (type) article, and not the actual Stonington Blend product page, right? I didn't see (at first) that you were pulling information from there instead of the product page. I can understand how that might cause some confusion. I wonder if that article page was added much later (after it became legal to grow cannabis in that state, perhaps). Maybe it would be a good idea for whoever they've got working for them that can read without having to move their lips to check every statement on it with the information available on the actual product pages (which I assume are accurate).

I was somewhat surprised to see that they offer something like 15 different growing mix products. Only five or six amendment products, though. Like maybe they are trying to enable the gardener to pick something reasonably close to what the plant type needs, and only offer amendments that might actually help things. I... don't know whether they've succeeded at it, of course . But it did give me a better feeling than when I browse a brand's website and see several different "lines," each with up to a half-dozen or more products, plus still more supplements... and assume that it's all marketed to the growers of ONE species of plant, lol. Like... "So you have money? Well, come on in - and let me help you get rid of it!"

 

[NAGreengo]

Actually, Ocean Forest and Happy Frog have about the same amounts of included ferts, but HF contains humic acid and microbes, while OF doesn't.

It's also worth mentioning in case you weren't aware, that both Happy Frog and Ocean Forest contain Microbes, Myco and Humic Acid.

 

[cbdhemp808]

You've tested the statement that you keep claiming to be false, lol? And you used a 15-gallon quantity of that growing mix, as its product page suggests?

The statement?

Coast of Maine’s Stonington Blend is a pre-mixed “super soil” that contains EVERYTHING your cannabis plants need for a full grow cycle. YOU ONLY NEED TO ADD WATER!​

Well, no.

Growing Cannabis with Coast of Maine Products

Choosing what soil/medium to use for growing your marijuana plants is arguably the most important decision you'll make. Choose the wrong blend and you could be signing yourself up for weeks of measuring, flushing, and writing into chat forums for help! Choose the right one, and your experience...

coastofmaine.com

Scroll down... then they contradict themselves and give you the feeding schedule and how long the mix will last before you need to add their nutrients.

BtW, you do realize that the web page you've linked to is sort of like a "Hey, are you a stoner? SO ARE WE!" blog (type) article, and not the actual Stonington Blend product page, right? I didn't see (at first) that you were pulling information from there instead of the product page. I can understand how that might cause some confusion.

No, it's not a stoner page... give me a break! Take another look... it's Coast of Maine's official page on growing cannabis with the Stonington mix, and you'll get a mouse-wheel workout scrolling down the whole page.

"Stonington Blend was created specifically for growing Cannabis."

OK? Hence the name I suppose!

Look, they just made a boo boo with the claim at the top, and then corrected it in the next paragraph, but then down below they say 15 gal will last 90 days... enough for autos for sure... cutting it close for most photos, yeah? Not a lot of people would want to grow an auto in a 15 gal pot indoors. 120 days for a 20 gal pot... now getting ridiculous.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Do you have that kind of information (or even opinions) on Fox Farm's Strawberry Fields Potting Soil, Salamander Soil Potting Mix, and Fox Farm Original Planting Mix?

And what the **** is the difference between potting soil, potting mix, and planting mix, anyway? Is it like automobile paint colors in the 1970s (if they called it "maroon," you could qualify for the loan - but if they called it "burgundy," you had to find a cosigner... even though the colors had the same paint code)?

 

[cbdhemp808]

It's also worth mentioning in case you weren't aware, that both Happy Frog and Ocean Forest contain Microbes, Myco and Humic Acid.

No, only Happy Frog does.

Product page for Happy Frog specifically mentions added microbes...

Happy Frog® Potting Soil - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

Happy Frog® Potting Soil is a nutrient-rich growing media for use in containers. It is amended with soil microbes that help improve root efficiency and encourage nutrient uptake.

foxfarm.com

Product page for Ocean Forest does not mention added microbes...

Ocean Forest® Potting Soil - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

Our most popular potting soil, Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of aged forest products, sphagnum peat moss, earthworm castings, bat guano, fish emulsion, and crab meal.

foxfarm.com

Back of bag of Happy Frog lists humic acid and microbes

Back of bag of Ocean Forest lists no humic or microbes

 

[TorturedSoul]

No, it's not a stoner page... give me a break! Take another look... it's Coast of Maine's official page on growing cannabis with the Stonington mix

The two need not be mutually exclusive .

and you'll get a mouse-wheel workout scrolling down the whole page.

I rarely used the scroll wheel on that manner. I used to press it in Firefox to bring up the little scroll symbol, then move the mouse towards me slightly, and the web page would begin auto-scrolling. I'd move it a little more to adjust the speed to what I could keep up with, and it was easier to read all the way to the bottom of the page.

Most often, though, I'd use the page down key. Recently (I'm slow? ), though, I realized I could use a three-finger tap on my laptop touchpad and get the auto-scroll symbol. I still usually use the page down key, though. Or, sometimes, the space bar. My fingers aren't as young as they used to be, and have... had a hard life. Starting to look gnarled/twisted.

I've been typing a lot since 1981, so I just instinctively reach for the keyboard. Been using this &*%# cell phone this evening, though, because it's too hot to sit in the house, and I'm not bringing the laptop outside. It's also just a few hours until I have to be awake, so I'm going to fade for the night.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Do you have that kind of information (or even opinions) on Fox Farm's Strawberry Fields Potting Soil, Salamander Soil Potting Mix, and Fox Farm Original Planting Mix?

Which information? It's a good idea to quote when replying.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The two need not be mutually exclusive .

have a good night!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Coast of Maine's Stonington soil has been added to my analysis at the beginning of this thread.

^TOP

 

[NAGreengo]

No, only Happy Frog does.

Product page for Happy Frog specifically mentions added microbes...

Happy Frog® Potting Soil - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

Happy Frog® Potting Soil is a nutrient-rich growing media for use in containers. It is amended with soil microbes that help improve root efficiency and encourage nutrient uptake.

foxfarm.com

Product page for Ocean Forest does not mention added microbes...

Ocean Forest® Potting Soil - FoxFarm Soil & Fertilizer Company

Our most popular potting soil, Ocean Forest® is a powerhouse blend of aged forest products, sphagnum peat moss, earthworm castings, bat guano, fish emulsion, and crab meal.

foxfarm.com

Back of bag of Happy Frog lists humic acid and microbes

Back of bag of Ocean Forest lists no humic or microbes

Aged forest product = Humus which does naturally contain humic acid.

Worm castings = Naturally contains Microbes.

Also, I have read a scholarly study on Ocean Forest a year or so ago that I cannot find ATM, that found Myco in Ocean Forest substrate. But if I recall correctly, it was not as much a beneficial amount as the added Myco properties of Happy Frog.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Aged forest product = Humus which does naturally contain humic acid.

I have my doubts about that. "Aged" does not mean "composted". Nowhere in Fox Farm's information do they say that Ocean Forest contains any "compost", let alone "aged" compost. In order for humic substances to be formed in compost, it has to be properly done and for the right duration. That's my understanding. I would like to see any research that's been done on how long it takes for compost to produce humic substances and in what quantities.

Worm castings = Naturally contains Microbes.

No, on the bag it says "Add worm castings...", as in, YOU add the worm castings (advertising slight of hand). Worm castings are not in the ingredient list. [CORRECTION: worm casting are in the fertilizer sub-list, and I'm guessing not biologically active because of soil sterilization.]

Also, I have read a scholarly study on Ocean Forest a year or so ago that I cannot find ATM, that found Myco in Ocean Forest substrate. But if I recall correctly, it was not as much a beneficial amount as the added Myco properties of Happy Frog.

I doubt they found that in a freshly opened bag of OF, because the soil is sterilized and no microbes added after that. The sterilizing temperature to kill fungi is actually LOWER than the sterilizing temperature to kill bacteria. Maybe their sterilizing process is not 100%.

 

[NAGreengo]

No, on the bag it says "Add worm castings...", as in, YOU add the worm castings (advertising slight of hand). Worm castings are not in the ingredient list.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I think they are using earthworm castings for nutrients, not for microbes – yes, it is listed as part of their "fertilizer". My guess is that the whole things is sterilized... no added microbes after sterilizing.

BUT... it looks like worm castings do contain humic acids! ...and I don't think these would be destroyed when the soil is sterilized.

 

[SmokingWings]

I think they are using earthworm castings for nutrients, not for microbes – yes, it is listed as part of their "fertilizer". My guess is that the whole things is sterilized... no added microbes after sterilizing.

"Aged" does not mean "composted". Nowhere in Fox Farm's information do they say that Ocean Forest contains any "compost", let alone "aged" compost. In order for humic substances to be formed in compost, it has to be properly done and for the right duration. That's my understanding. I would like to see any research that's been done on how long it takes for compost to produce humic substances and in what quantities.

The info quoted below is a copy and paste from the Fox Farms FAQ found on their website. I think it covers everything you were curious about. Definitely looks like they are after the microbes first and any available NPK second. I believe that the available fertilizers/nutrients (the NPK) available in the worm castings is so low that it is not worth considering as compared the microbes and the NPK that becomes available from the "Aged Forest Products" and Bat Guano.

Why do you include earthworm castings, bat guano, and humic acids is so many of your products.

When we get enthusiastic about a particular ingredient, we can get a little carried away. That’s why you’ll find three of our favorite ingredients – earthworm castings, bat guano, and humic acids – in so many of our products.

Earthworm castings are teeming with beneficial microbes that help plants thrive. Scientists have tried to reproduce the nutrients found in worm castings in a laboratory, but they’ve been unable to create a formula that feeds plants as well as that rich, coffee colored worm poop does.

Bat guano has been used for centuries as a fertilizer for all kinds of plants. It is a naturally-occurring source of essential nutrients, making it the perfect ingredient for our fertilizers and soils.

Humic acids are a natural by-product of decomposed organic matter. They contains trace amounts of nutrients and help hold other nutrients in the soil where plants can use them. They can hold water in the soil, and generally improve soil structure for better seed germination and plant growth.

"Aged" does not mean "composted". Nowhere in Fox Farm's information do they say that Ocean Forest contains any "compost", let alone "aged" compost. In order for humic substances to be formed in compost, it has to be properly done and for the right duration. That's my understanding. I would like to see any research that's been done on how long it takes for compost to produce humic substances and in what quantities.

Wording like "Aged Forest Products" or Aged Forest Humus or similar on the bags of soil is a catch all for composted scrap wood from what I have been reading for the past several years. The basic research I have done indicates that scrap sawdust, wood shavings, wood chips and chipped branches or any woody material left over at sawmills or lumber mills or left behind as part of the tree cutting is included in "Forest" products.

This material is mixed, has a Nitrogen source added and piled up just like any compost pile. Some composting operations wait a year and often two before the stuff is ready. Photos of these piles make it look like the piles are as tall as at least a 2 story house and cover a typical city block in width and length. Large earth-moving equipment needed to turn those puppies over a couple of times a season. Throw the phrase "Aged Forest Products" into a Google search box and follow it from there.

I have not contacted Fox Farms about the Aged Forest Products yet but it is on my list. Other companies that make compost out of the left over wood from mills, yes I have called/contacted a few of them, but not Fox Farms.

 

[NAGreengo]

I think they are using earthworm castings for nutrients, not for microbes – yes, it is listed as part of their "fertilizer". My guess is that the whole things is sterilized... no added microbes after sterilizing.

BUT... it looks like worm castings do contain humic acids! ...and I don't think these would be destroyed when the soil is sterilized.

 

[SmokingWings]

Thank you for contacting them. I was curious enough about the sterilization concept but would not have time to ask them until next week.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Wording like "Aged Forest Products" or Aged Forest Humus or similar on the bags of soil is a catch all for composted scrap wood from what I have been reading for the past several years. The basic research I have done indicates that scrap sawdust, wood shavings, wood chips and chipped branches or any woody material left over at sawmills or lumber mills or left behind as part of the tree cutting is included in "Forest" products.

This material is mixed, has a Nitrogen source added and piled up just like any compost pile. Some composting operations wait a year and often two before the stuff is ready. Photos of these piles make it look like the piles are as tall as at least a 2 story house and cover a typical city block in width and length. Large earth-moving equipment needed to turn those puppies over a couple of times a season. Throw the phrase "Aged Forest Products" into a Google search box and follow it from there.

I have not contacted Fox Farms about the Aged Forest Products yet but it is on my list. Other companies that make compost out of the left over wood from mills, yes I have called/contacted a few of them, but not Fox Farms.

OK, well... it seems kinda silly/strange to me for this major potting soil company not to use the word "compost" anywhere on their product bags or on their website. Google tells me that the only occurrence of the word "compost" on their website is the name of the parent company, "United Compost & Organics".

Compare to Coast of Maine's website...

"Here at Coast of Maine we are proud of the quality and consistency of our compost-based soils. Compost (naturally decomposed organic matter), we believe, is the key ingredient."​

​

Stonington mix ingredients: 40% sphagnum peat moss, coco fiber (coir), composted manure, perlite, fertilizer (see below) and mycorrhizae​

SOHUM living soil... they talk some about compost on their website, but I don't see it in their ingredient list and no mention of "compost" on their bag.

Roots Organics original... "Composted Forest Material" . Roots Organics LUSH... no compost.

RE: sterilizing the soil

OK, well... I guess we have to believe Fox Farm on that. Does anyone know if FF is an exception to the rule of sterilizing potting soil? Any of the other companies not sterilizing? I did some googling and some people claim they've gotten bugs from Ocean Forest, e.g. russet mites.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Coast of Maine’s Stonington Blend is a pre-mixed “super soil” that contains EVERYTHING your cannabis plants need for a full grow cycle. YOU ONLY NEED TO ADD WATER!

To be fair, I just noticed that SOHUM makes a similar claim...

 

[cbdhemp808]

@SmokingWings, this is curious...

New dirt on the block...

Head River Organics, Organic Living Potting Soil

Ingredients: 25-35% Aged Forest Products*, Canadian Sphagnum Peat, Finished and Cured Compost, Perlite, Worm Castings, Kelp Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Feather Meal, Kelp Meal, Azomite, and beneficial Microbes

*on the bag it says, "pine fines"