Is this deficiency or lockout?

Hi @Hdinkleman, @Emilya,

Sorry to bother again guys, but after I’ve changed the ph to 5.8 the plants started having more problems. The first 4 pictures are from an Blueberry auto that is in the same medium and I switched the ph to 5.8 from 6.5. It started getting some spots. The images with the yellow leaves are from the Super skunk above. Do you have any ideas guys? Shall I up or down the ph, maybe up it to 6.2? This is the buffer of the medium.

Blueberry auto

25752221-AC2F-46FD-8252-61EFDE4C11C4.jpeg
ADBE0678-3D92-4984-A601-0F3F05C649F9.jpeg
2080AA9C-D51B-4C56-9914-18B0632328EC.jpeg
135BDC7C-70E0-4FE7-8777-EEC547927106.jpeg


Super Skunk

F8F0F236-C906-4D60-A456-6B0F592AD6DE.jpeg
8BF73871-8A56-4FDE-BF4D-920DBFBBB701.jpeg
282E52F6-676F-464A-94C0-BCDEF66DDF31.jpeg
F38FDFAD-CB46-4CD0-B575-2D6D4A38580E.jpeg
20974271-4B51-4F99-9B1B-DB1DF4E4DA57.jpeg
If you adjust pH of your incoming fluids to the 6.2 of the buffer, then the nutes will just sit there. They will not break out of their salt bonds and they will not be available to the plant. You could give twice the recommended dosage, and still the plants would not see any of those nutes that are designed to become mobile in the 5.5-6.1 range. Adjust to 5.8 or lower ... all the way down to 5.5 if you like, every time, and let that buffered medium drift your pH right through the entire usable range.
As far as your spotting problem goes, I know it is easy to assume that this is because of your adventures in pH swings, but I think it looks more like a common magnesium deficiency. The yellowing is due to starvation and your pH problems, but those rust colored spots are magnesium. Get some calmag in there and get your pH stabilized.
 
The leaves that aren’t getting much sun will yellow off,if your new growth was doing that you should be concerned.Some of the leaves look like maybe spots from feeding?Plant doesn’t look that bad,Have you checked the ph of your runoff?
 
If you adjust pH of your incoming fluids to the 6.2 of the buffer, then the nutes will just sit there. They will not break out of their salt bonds and they will not be available to the plant. You could give twice the recommended dosage, and still the plants would not see any of those nutes that are designed to become mobile in the 5.5-6.1 range. Adjust to 5.8 or lower ... all the way down to 5.5 if you like, every time, and let that buffered medium drift your pH right through the entire usable range.
As far as your spotting problem goes, I know it is easy to assume that this is because of your adventures in pH swings, but I think it looks more like a common magnesium deficiency. The yellowing is due to starvation and your pH problems, but those rust colored spots are magnesium. Get some calmag in there and get your pH stabilized.
I have already fed the plants twice with ph 5.8. And those problems started appearing in the past 2-3 days. I give the maximum recommended dose of calcium and magnesium. And the maximum amount of nutes given from the manufacturer. For both of them. I can’t wrap my head around that why the plants looked better when I was feeding with 6.5ph, if it’s wrong for this type of medium. Shall I lower to 5.5 and how many feeding it take until I can see result? Thanks for your time!
 
The leaves that aren’t getting much sun will yellow off,if your new growth was doing that you should be concerned.Some of the leaves look like maybe spots from feeding?Plant doesn’t look that bad,Have you checked the ph of your runoff?
Hey man, yes I check every time when I feed. I have checked a runoff once and it was exactly the same as the water I poured. I also did a slurry and the ph was 5.9.
 
who am i to chime in so late? i just read this thread now...late to the party. the earliest pics in thread offer hints of over fertilization based on the tips curling down and slight burn. i'm just an amateur, but chasing the pH might just be a ruse. as for the spots, you might have the same little critter i just noticed on my girls tonight. litlle miner goes around and makes a few spots but the little critter is small and insidious and very hard to see. does his/her bit then moves onto a different leaf which might explain the spots. still think you were just overfertilizing based on early photos, burnt tips curled downwards, etc. two separate issues perceived to be causative...into the rabbit hole we go? my2c
 

Attachments

  • littlebug3.jpg
    littlebug3.jpg
    360.3 KB · Views: 106
  • littlebug4.jpg
    littlebug4.jpg
    400.5 KB · Views: 112
Hey man, yes I check every time when I feed. I have checked a runoff once and it was exactly the same as the water I poured. I also did a slurry and the ph was 5.9.
Chasing ph on a soil grow sucks,everything just takes too long to see any results and if thing go sideways you still have a couple of days before you find out how bad things are.By the way I’ve been a member since 2014 .Says I’m a new member,lol.I seriously think you had things right.I still think your root zone may be getting a bit too warm,it definitely would cause all kinds of ph fluctuations.Try sticking your finger as deep as you can when it’s getting the most sun and see if it feels too warm.The way the symptoms change keeps me thinking this
 
Chasing ph on a soil grow sucks,everything just takes too long to see any results and if thing go sideways you still have a couple of days before you find out how bad things are.By the way I’ve been a member since 2014 .Says I’m a new member,lol.I seriously think you had things right.I still think your root zone may be getting a bit too warm,it definitely would cause all kinds of ph fluctuations.Try sticking your finger as deep as you can when it’s getting the most sun and see if it feels too warm.The way the symptoms change keeps me thinking this
Hey man, I the soil definitely gets hot. I’m going to get a cooking thermometer tonight and will see how much exactly but I felt it very warm. Do you think that white spray will work or should be normal paint? My only problem with the painting right now is that it stinks and I don’t want to damage the plant while The paint dries out.
Hi @Emilya, I’ve changed the ph to 5.6 and I started getting weird burns on the tips from yesterday (images attached below) . Do you think that this has something to do with what Ledarious says above, just want a second opinion on that with the temp.
Does anyone have experience with BioBizz Light Mix medium at all? I’m starting to doubt that they don’t state the full content of the medium. It just doesn’t make any sense to do everything what you recommend, to feed the recommended amount and the plant to get worse. I’m wondering if there is soil content and that ph buffer 6.2 is upper buffer, that doesn’t allow the ph to drop under that value. And actually I have to feed between 6.3-6.8. Because there is definitely drop in the health after I changed the ph to lower. I don’t know, I’m throwing questions because it get’s more confusing.
Thanks all!

E3F5A16C-F120-4302-84EC-40AC39E0CC90.jpeg
A7C5F43D-672A-41A3-BCDB-2379CD498618.jpeg
 
Hey man, I the soil definitely gets hot. I’m going to get a cooking thermometer tonight and will see how much exactly but I felt it very warm. Do you think that white spray will work or should be normal paint? My only problem with the painting right now is that it stinks and I don’t want to damage the plant while The paint dries out.
Hi @Emilya, I’ve changed the ph to 5.6 and I started getting weird burns on the tips from yesterday (images attached below) . Do you think that this has something to do with what Ledarious says above, just want a second opinion on that with the temp.
Does anyone have experience with BioBizz Light Mix medium at all? I’m starting to doubt that they don’t state the full content of the medium. It just doesn’t make any sense to do everything what you recommend, to feed the recommended amount and the plant to get worse. I’m wondering if there is soil content and that ph buffer 6.2 is upper buffer, that doesn’t allow the ph to drop under that value. And actually I have to feed between 6.3-6.8. Because there is definitely drop in the health after I changed the ph to lower. I don’t know, I’m throwing questions because it get’s more confusing.
Thanks all!

E3F5A16C-F120-4302-84EC-40AC39E0CC90.jpeg
A7C5F43D-672A-41A3-BCDB-2379CD498618.jpeg

Peat based soil-less mediums may have no nutritional value and are therefore considered hydro but that's where it stops. When it comes to pH, treat them like soil. pH going in should be 6.5.

You only briefly outlined what you are feeding them, only said max bottle recommendations. You look like you have some tip burn going on. From what info I can get on BioBizz (they aren't great at giving you the N-P-K ratios on all their products), I would look at feeding;

5ml Fish Mix
2ml Algamic
3ml Bio Bloom (assuming this is your bloom food since the rest of your products are BioBizz)
3ml Activera
5ml Cal-Mag

Those numbers are ml per gallon, in ml per liter it would be:

1.32ml/l Fish Mix
.53 ml/l Algamic
.8 ml/l Bio Bloom
.8 ml/l Activera
1.32 ml/l Cal Mag

The blended N-P-K would be 2-1-2 and ppm from N, 108.

How does that compare to what you've been feeding?
 
Peat based soil-less mediums may have no nutritional value and are therefore considered hydro but that's where it stops. When it comes to pH, treat them like soil. pH going in should be 6.5.

You only briefly outlined what you are feeding them, only said max bottle recommendations. You look like you have some tip burn going on. From what info I can get on BioBizz (they aren't great at giving you the N-P-K ratios on all their products), I would look at feeding;

5ml Fish Mix
2ml Algamic
3ml Bio Bloom (assuming this is your bloom food since the rest of your products are BioBizz)
3ml Activera
5ml Cal-Mag

Those numbers are ml per gallon, in ml per liter it would be:

1.32ml/l Fish Mix
.53 ml/l Algamic
.8 ml/l Bio Bloom
.8 ml/l Activera
1.32 ml/l Cal Mag

The blended N-P-K would be 2-1-2 and ppm from N, 108.

How does that compare to what you've been feeding?
Hey man, I have the N-P-K values of all the products I use, here you go:

Fish Mix
  • NPK 5-3-4
  • 5% nitrogen
  • -1% amoniacal
  • -0.4% nitrate
  • -3.6% organic nitrogen
  • 1% phosphorus
  • 4% potassium
Bio-Bloom:
  • NPK 2-7-4
  • Nitrogen 1.9%
  • -ammonium 0.48%
  • -nitrate 1.15%
  • Phosphorus 6.9%
  • Potassium 4.1%
Alg a Mic
  • NPK 0.2-0.2-0.2
  • Nitrogen 0.2%
  • Phosphorus 0.2%
  • Potassium 0.2%
  • Calcium 0.1%
  • Magnesium 0.1%
  • Manganese 0.25%
Acti Vera
  • Magnesium.
  • Copper.
  • Zinc.
  • Manganese.
  • Iron.
  • Boron.
  • Molybdenum.
The amounts I give are: Fish Mix 2ml/l, Bio Bloom 1ml/l, Alg a Mic 1ml/l, Acti Vera 2ml/l. This what is stated in my feeding table that I use, downloaded from the web site. Also I add 2ml/l from each product Calcium and Magnesium that I mix. On the bottles say 1-2ml/l.

There is another product from the gamma which is called Bio Grow, It’s recommended to be used once the plant get into flowering and to stop the Fish Mix.

Bio Grow:
  • NPK – 4-3-6
  • Nitrogen 4%
  • -Amoniacal 1.5%
  • -Nitrate 0.2%
  • -Organic 2.3%
  • Phosphorus 3%
  • Potassium 6%
I guess I switch to that one because it has less Nitrogen and the plant doesn’t need so much when it’s flowering. So yeah I just don’t understand why the plant is still starving and probably the burned tips are sign of toxicity. And maybe I have to flush the soil now.
 
Hey man, I have the N-P-K values of all the products I use, here you go:

Fish Mix
  • NPK 5-3-4
  • 5% nitrogen
  • -1% amoniacal
  • -0.4% nitrate
  • -3.6% organic nitrogen
  • 1% phosphorus
  • 4% potassium
Bio-Bloom:
  • NPK 2-7-4
  • Nitrogen 1.9%
  • -ammonium 0.48%
  • -nitrate 1.15%
  • Phosphorus 6.9%
  • Potassium 4.1%
Alg a Mic
  • NPK 0.2-0.2-0.2
  • Nitrogen 0.2%
  • Phosphorus 0.2%
  • Potassium 0.2%
  • Calcium 0.1%
  • Magnesium 0.1%
  • Manganese 0.25%
Acti Vera
  • Magnesium.
  • Copper.
  • Zinc.
  • Manganese.
  • Iron.
  • Boron.
  • Molybdenum.
The amounts I give are: Fish Mix 2ml/l, Bio Bloom 1ml/l, Alg a Mic 1ml/l, Acti Vera 2ml/l. This what is stated in my feeding table that I use, downloaded from the web site. Also I add 2ml/l from each product Calcium and Magnesium that I mix. On the bottles say 1-2ml/l.

There is another product from the gamma which is called Bio Grow, It’s recommended to be used once the plant get into flowering and to stop the Fish Mix.

Bio Grow:
  • NPK – 4-3-6
  • Nitrogen 4%
  • -Amoniacal 1.5%
  • -Nitrate 0.2%
  • -Organic 2.3%
  • Phosphorus 3%
  • Potassium 6%
I guess I switch to that one because it has less Nitrogen and the plant doesn’t need so much when it’s flowering. So yeah I just don’t understand why the plant is still starving and probably the burned tips are sign of toxicity. And maybe I have to flush the soil now.

Thanks. I was able to find all the N-P-K values for all but the Algamic before I made my preliminary calcs. Since the N-P-K values for it are so low, it really didn't change anything.

You are feeding at a rate of 162ppm of Nitrogen. My experience is that once you start flirting with 125-150 ppm from N, you are likely to see tip burn. You are over that.

The idea that plants need less Nitrogen in bloom is a fallacy. Science and tissue samples have proved it wrong 10 years ago yet the myths persist.

You say you mix your own Cal Mag from two products? Please explain. If you are somehow mixing the two, and in equal proportions, the ratio of Calcium to Magnesium should be more like 3:1. They play off each other and need to be in the right ratio or you could have issues.
 
Thanks. I was able to find all the N-P-K values for all but the Algamic before I made my preliminary calcs. Since the N-P-K values for it are so low, it really didn't change anything.

You are feeding at a rate of 162ppm of Nitrogen. My experience is that once you start flirting with 125-150 ppm from N, you are likely to see tip burn. You are over that.

The idea that plants need less Nitrogen in bloom is a fallacy. Science and tissue samples have proved it wrong 10 years ago yet the myths persist.

You say you mix your own Cal Mag from two products? Please explain. If you are somehow mixing the two, and in equal proportions, the ratio of Calcium to Magnesium should be more like 3:1. They play off each other and need to be in the right ratio or you could have issues.
Ok so I use Canna Calcium and Magnesium, they are in separated bottles and I mix 2ml from each. I don’t know what the concentration of the products is and if the ratio in the end is correct.

How did you calculate the ppm from seeing only the N-P-K? Why would I have burnt tips if the plant looks like it has an N deficiency? It becomes even more interesting!

What would you advice me to do seeing and knowing the situation. Shall I stop giving the blooming nutes as they are an addition that I started giving because of the N deficiency I thought I had, or just change the amount? Also what do you think about the heat issue that is mentioned above, that the soil might get very warm?
 
Ok so I use Canna Calcium and Magnesium, they are in separated bottles and I mix 2ml from each. I don’t know what the concentration of the products is and if the ratio in the end is correct.

How did you calculate the ppm from seeing only the N-P-K? Why would I have burnt tips if the plant looks like it has an N deficiency? It becomes even more interesting!

What would you advice me to do seeing and knowing the situation. Shall I stop giving the blooming nutes as they are an addition that I started giving because of the N deficiency I thought I had, or just change the amount? Also what do you think about the heat issue that is mentioned above, that the soil might get very warm?

OK, I see the Canna Mono products. The Calcium is 15% and the Magnesium is 7%. So combining them in equal parts provides a 2:1 ratio which should be fine. I'm guessing you're somewhere in Europe. I'm more familiar with the USA product lines. Those Mono products are stronger than a lot of the combined ones we see in the States, so you can half the dosage I had recommended earlier.

I'm only calculating the ppm from N (well at least in the mentioned calculations). I have a rather involved spreadsheet of my making that I do it all on. You're a couple posts shy of 50. Once you get 50 posts in, then you can send and receive private messages on the site. If you are interested I can message you a link to the spreadsheet when you hit the 50 posts milestone. Of course my sheet is based on gallons rather than liters, so you'd have to make some metric conversion. I put the sheet together mainly to compare nutrient lines. Each manufacturer formulated their products differently and I wanted a way to compare them. Over time I've come to find a blended N-P-K of 2-1-3 works well from start to finish and a ppm from N of 125 is about optimal as full strength dose. With the spreadsheet I can play around with different nutrient lines and find "my blend" of products that hits those milestones.

In short I'd try:

1.32ml/l Fish Mix
.53 ml/l Algamic
.8 ml/l Bio Bloom
.8 ml/l Activera
.33 ml/l Calcium
.33ml/l Magnesium

pH to 6.5

I don't think heat is the issue or people all over the glove would be having similar problems growing in any sort of container outside. Our family owned a greenhouse and temperatures in it during the summer often exceeded 100 degrees.

Don't feel bad. My first grow I chased pH hearing half the crowd saying pH like soil and half say like hydro. Under fed, over fed. Chased my tail all around in circles. My plants looked way worse. 4 years and many grows later, it's dialed in pretty solid now with repeatable results.
 
OK, I see the Canna Mono products. The Calcium is 15% and the Magnesium is 7%. So combining them in equal parts provides a 2:1 ratio which should be fine. I'm guessing you're somewhere in Europe. I'm more familiar with the USA product lines. Those Mono products are stronger than a lot of the combined ones we see in the States, so you can half the dosage I had recommended earlier.

I'm only calculating the ppm from N (well at least in the mentioned calculations). I have a rather involved spreadsheet of my making that I do it all on. You're a couple posts shy of 50. Once you get 50 posts in, then you can send and receive private messages on the site. If you are interested I can message you a link to the spreadsheet when you hit the 50 posts milestone. Of course my sheet is based on gallons rather than liters, so you'd have to make some metric conversion. I put the sheet together mainly to compare nutrient lines. Each manufacturer formulated their products differently and I wanted a way to compare them. Over time I've come to find a blended N-P-K of 2-1-3 works well from start to finish and a ppm from N of 125 is about optimal as full strength dose. With the spreadsheet I can play around with different nutrient lines and find "my blend" of products that hits those milestones.

In short I'd try:

1.32ml/l Fish Mix
.53 ml/l Algamic
.8 ml/l Bio Bloom
.8 ml/l Activera
.33 ml/l Calcium
.33ml/l Magnesium

pH to 6.5

I don't think heat is the issue or people all over the glove would be having similar problems growing in any sort of container outside. Our family owned a greenhouse and temperatures in it during the summer often exceeded 100 degrees.

Don't feel bad. My first grow I chased pH hearing half the crowd saying pH like soil and half say like hydro. Under fed, over fed. Chased my tail all around in circles. My plants looked way worse. 4 years and many grows later, it's dialed in pretty solid now with repeatable results.
It’s amazing how there is always someone to open my eyes about something. I didn’t even think how difficult and interesting could be to grow cannabis. I mean difficult for rookies like me. It never came to my mind that I can check ppm for medium, I thought this is only for hydro. And of course as the wise people say less is more.... When I hear and see deficiency, my first reaction is to feed more instead of thinking what is the ratio of the different nutritions. Well I would be more than happy and thankful if you send me that sheet so I can have a look.
Sorry but how do you change the N-P-K values of a product that already has 5-3-4? Thank you for all your time and the details you get into!
 
It’s amazing how there is always someone to open my eyes about something. I didn’t even think how difficult and interesting could be to grow cannabis. I mean difficult for rookies like me. It never came to my mind that I can check ppm for medium, I thought this is only for hydro. And of course as the wise people say less is more.... When I hear and see deficiency, my first reaction is to feed more instead of thinking what is the ratio of the different nutritions. Well I would be more than happy and thankful if you send me that sheet so I can have a look.
Sorry but how do you change the N-P-K values of a product that already has 5-3-4? Thank you for all your time and the details you get into!

Well you are using multiple products, so your aren't changing the single products N-P-K, you're changing the blended N-P-K. For simplicity, let's just look at one value, the N component. If you have one product that has an N of 5 and you use 2 parts of it. That's 10 N (5 x 2). You have a second product and it's N is 2. You use 1 part of it. So that's 2 N (2 x 1). Add your total N's. 10 + 2 = 12 N's. Now divide the 12 by the total parts used (2 + 1 = 3). So 12 / 3 = 4. The blended N value for the new concoction you made is 4. Repeat for as many products as you are using and for all three macro nutrients to get your new blended N-P-K values. Of course the spreadsheet does all the calculations for you. You just enter the N-P-K's from the labels and how much of each you used.
 
Well you are using multiple products, so your aren't changing the single products N-P-K, you're changing the blended N-P-K. For simplicity, let's just look at one value, the N component. If you have one product that has an N of 5 and you use 2 parts of it. That's 10 N (5 x 2). You have a second product and it's N is 2. You use 1 part of it. So that's 2 N (2 x 1). Add your total N's. 10 + 2 = 12 N's. Now divide the 12 by the total parts used (2 + 1 = 3). So 12 / 3 = 4. The blended N value for the new concoction you made is 4. Repeat for as many products as you are using and for all three macro nutrients to get your new blended N-P-K values. Of course the spreadsheet does all the calculations for you. You just enter the N-P-K's from the labels and how much of each you used.
Thanks man! Really appreciate your help! By the way I think with this post I just reached the 50 post limit to be able to send PMs!
 
Thanks man! Really appreciate your help! By the way I think with this post I just reached the 50 post limit to be able to send PMs!

I sent the link via PM. Let me know if you need help understanding any of it.
 
Hi Guys, is this deficiency or lockout? I can’t wrap my head around it, there are always some problematic leaves. I feed with all the nutrients that the producer recommends and give cal-mag in addition. At least I think that I have a good watering system, I check the weight of the pot and wait until it wilt down as you can see on the image. I can’t get the whole plant green, there is always some of the big fan leaves dying.
To me it seems like the plant has 3 different problems or maybe I’m paranoid. Rusty spots, yellowing and drying leaves and those broken leaves. Maybe it’s a watering problem. I don't know they might have connection. It’s outdoors

980DDCA1-C444-4BFA-921D-33B8746AA2A0.jpeg

F5B3E324-9490-42C6-9209-7AAB2607E2D0.jpeg
8ED87667-80A3-4303-B3C2-ADC0AFD9469B.jpeg
50DB8E89-D452-423F-9D7C-7A019790C5EC.jpeg
E7D0865D-6A89-4F16-8473-7C7D7AA135CE.jpeg
3B8AF0CA-2123-4C03-B29F-2CE71944DCCE.jpeg
Never had any luck growing in plastic pots.
 
Back
Top Bottom