KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Most top after 4th or 5th node, If they are healthy I always top when theres 4 sets of true leaves and take out new growth in center , leave just a bit of stock above 4th set of leaves that way new growth each side of stock. After you top let grow out 2-3 sets of leaves , and top again, by then your side branches have caught up and shes ready for flower in a week or so.:volcano-smiley:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

For sure, I just ask cause this is literally my first grow indoor and second total I did 1 last year that I have all pics from, I should make a completed journal if there's a way to do that after the fact just for viewing. Here's a pic of one time of room filling from harvest, it was filled 4 times lol before finishing

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re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Excuse the untidy Ness of the lamp knocked over it was one that broke on me and I was in process of moving out of room and needed the space at harvest :bigtoke:
These were God bud, Chem Dawg, Lucy, 2 different Blue Dream cuts,Larry Og, Og Kush, Candyland, & Game Changer.
I have some really pretty bud pics but I have to find out where to organize and post everything :)
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Thanks Sara, I'm enjoying the lights as are my Ladies :) I'm gonna get a few more soon 1 for my large tent and most likely another tent and a 1600 as well. That will be after I set up my outdoor girls before next cold season. I wanna do a bigger indoor setup after my outdoor harvest if everything goes as planned with this one. Which I'm sure it will with the help of my fellow growers :high-five: I'm really enjoying the hobby with all the new tech. Being here makes it even more enjoyable cause I can share progress and what I learn as well. So hopefully many more journals to come :)
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

PH: Trying to keep in soil ph around 6-6.5 (feel free to advise me if thats wrong)
i'd say you're right on the money re: pH.

Please consider (and this will become truer the older the plants get): root exudates will affect runoff pH. Therefore, using runoff pH as guide might, at times, be misleading. As long as you're dialing the pH of what's going in, you should be fine.

Also consider that GSC (or anything "cookies") can be finicky. There are several phenos out there; results may vary.

Veg more mass than what you plan to flower and trim bottom branches before flipping to flower.

Never do a tent grow with pots directly on tent floor. I know tents have a second liner, but this is not a catch reservoir. Please, use a saucer per plant or get a shallow, plastic tote to house them. Wash the tote first with soapy water--most plastic totes get a light coat of BPA sprayed to preserve luster before shipping. Drain excess runoff from tote, and clean as needed to ensure optimal plant health. Pythium festers in anything wet. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of remedy.

Lookin' good; let's stay the course.
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

For sure, thank you for the advice. I will get something to put under them asap. And that's one thing I am picky on lol is thoroughly cleaning anything plastic new or used. I'm learning as I go with everything else these are the first plants I've grown period, so learning plants in general with these gals. I'm enjoying the process and the input from everyone. I don't know why I didn't think of the under saucers before I did it last year with my clones for outdoor in their pots. Live and learn and then apply I guess :) Happy growing
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Ok, so I have temporary dishes under my pots, literally, until tomorrow when I go to grow shop. I also noticed I had a 9 blade leaf, which was a first for me :) But my joy was cut short when I noticed my first issue on my very lowest leaf. I've only gave them a very very small dose of house and garden soil. Like less than the minimum. Here's the pics:

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re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Looks like a Mg deficiency. It's not calcium. Rusty color blotches that do not look like stippling, circumscribed to the tips and absent between veins, starting at the bottom.

1. Read the following reply thoroughly. After you've pondered these points, decide what course(s) of action best to follow, implement them, and evaluate the outcome.

2. Watering frequency:
Yes, overwatering can contribute to deficiencies...vicariously. An overwatered or always-wet substrate discourages feeder root growth. If one always has food by the side of the bed, chances are one does not have to get up too often. Same with feeder roots. They get lazy. Root growth is not at par with leaf growth, which occurs thanks to stored energy and hormones in the leaf tissue...but eventually, the demands of the canopy are greater than what the roots can supply. Allowing the substrate to dry up a bit encourages collateral root growth. The trick is to gently tease the roots into seeking water. The rule of thumb is allowing the plant to "lose" 75% of its baseline water volume. Your "baseline" is the weight of the pot after you water it and runoff has drained. Lift up the pot and assess if that much volume has been lost by either uptake / transpiration or evaporation. Your plants do not seem large enough to require watering them every other day. Perhaps every third day would be enough? Maybe even longer. This would be something you'd need to assess by trial. Factors such as baseline ambient temperature, low humidity, air circulation, and, yes, root development will influence how quickly your plants will require watering. As your roots and canopy develop and apical growth (both at rootzone and branch level) continues, the demand for watering ought to increase and you can then water them more frequently. But assess and monitor watering frequency first so you can avoid the spread of a deficiency and the emergence of new ones.

3. pH:
We're parting from the premise that your pH is around 6.5. This should be good and all elements are uptaken optimally at this mark.

4. Nutrient mobility and xylem flow:
Mg is a mobile element. This means that if we interrupt or slow down xylem flow, its uptake at cell level might be affected. When we LST and super-crop, we can inadvertently interrupt or slow down xylem flow and the delivery of nutrient elements. Chances are that any LSTing was done above the node that presents the deficiency, but it is possible that if done early and at the bottom of the stem, a deficiency might present itself shortly thereafter. I have not seen it too often, but seen it nonetheless. I'm not against LSTing or supercropping--I do it myself--, but it's something I keep in mind while doing so. Usually my plants recover and the deficiency remains localized to the tips that exhibited, never spread, as xylem flow resumed.

5. Mg supplementation:
As tempted as we might be to buy some over the counter epsom salts, dilute them, and use as additive, I'd advise to think twice before doing so. H&G's Soil A&B contains plenty of Ca for most varieties. And since the problem seems to be strictly a Mg deficiency, I would not cal-mag it. I would suggest a Mg-only additive. Cutting Edge's Mag Amp is a good Mg-only additive. There are other brands, sure. I've just found through experience that this and some other Cutting Edge products complement the H&G line much more optimally than other brands I've tried. Sure, sure--"it's epsom salts". But they dialed it in for our purposes. So, if you consider that supplementing with Mg is indicated, that's the product I would suggest. Early in the game, as we are now, half-strength should do. Re-evaluate 5-7 days after application. We're looking for an absence of deficiency spread and, although I've seen some plants that exhibit an uncommon ability to regenerate damaged tissue, typically what's rusty-looking will dry up and die to beige. No biggie.

6. Leaf senescence:
Let us remember that those bottom leaves are older than the clone. They were either developed or "opening up" in the branch of the mother plant, before the clone was taken, endured the trauma of having to supply stored energy to the plant during rooting (in the absence of roots!), have carried on and photosynthesized throughout early veg and now might show some wear and tear midway through veg. They've been through some shit. I would expect some deficiency at this point. As long as it does not spread, you're golden.
Since we're talking about clones, let's go revisit root development for a moment. Even though clones have the ability to grow a great root system, they seldom are as abundant and vigorous as their counterparts grown from seed. Some varieties root better than others, and specimens from the same strain (or the same donor plant!) can exhibit differences in root vigor and development. This is why it is so important to allow the plant to develop an abundant root system while vegging, (especially if they are clones) before we start thinking about topping them, training /scrogging them, or flipping the lights, for that matter. This is why I stress on extended-vegging--to allow the roots to grow abundantly enough to supply the nutritional needs of the plant once we flower them. Flowering is the most stressful thing one can do to a plant; might as well set them up for success. Time, as it happens, is on our side on this one...and on theirs.

Best of luck; keep us posted on what you decide to do and the outcome!
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

For sure, I greatly appreciate the feedback :) Great knowledge and very descriptive. I learned on my first go round with outdoor about watering too much. It's been 3 days since I watered last and was thinking of waiting anot her 1 or 2 depending on pot weight. I need to evaluate my ph runoff then as I haven't used rooting supplement on these guys yet as they had a bunch coming out of their rooting blocks. Also, their new growth looks awesome, don't know if that fully matters as to a cure to issue...I did find a big dun dun dun though, little black flying turds aka gnats. Great. I know for sure I'm getting yellow sticky cards but what about their children? I want to evict them all :) Thank you in advance for your help, I'm storing everything I'm learning here to help my babies be their best :thumb:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

I did find a big dun dun dun though, little black flying turds aka gnats. Great. I know for sure I'm getting yellow sticky cards but what about their children? I want to evict them all.

Ah, yes...fungus gnats--'tis the season!
Well, there's no easy answer to gnats, but there are strategies that can slow them down and kill the larva. Fungus gnat larva feed off of...well, fungi. The problem is that when a fungal hypha is in symbiosis with a root, the larva will gnaw at the root tip to try and get the hypha. This might cause a tiny lesion on the root. Because gnat larva really do not feed on roots, they then regurgitate. And guess what lives in the gut of gnat larva? All kinds of nasty shit...including phytophtora. Because there is an open sore in the root, it gets infected with the regurgitated pathogens, and now we have root rot.
What can we do?

. First off, gnats thrive in humid environment, but so do the roots. At the stage you're in, you could allow the substrate to dry off a bit to discourage their spread, then hit'em with a drench containing either H2O2, SM-90 (or SMC, same thing basically), or azaditachtin. More on that below. The preferred method is to allow the soil to dry off slightly below 25% baseline volume (before the leaves begin wilting), then do a good soil drench with a solution containing 25-50% of the standard base nutrient + the pest control additive of your choice as explained below, drenching with twice the volume of your media. For example, if on a 2-gal pot, drench with 4 gal of solution. Ok, that's the textbook indication. Real-world, that shit can be expensive, so i do 1 1/2 times the volume (in a 2gal pot, I'd drench with 3 gal of solution. It's a good compromise. Frequency: 3-5 times, allowing the soil to dry up a bit below the 25% volume mark between applications. Most of the time, when done right, 3 applications will do. This ensures I kill the nymphs, the larva, any eggs that might hatch after applying, and anything that was molting while I treated the plant. This will be a standard practice, regardless of the pest control method you decide to use.

. Sticky traps can and will control gnats. They'll take care of the adult gnats. But the traps are more of an assessment tool than a remedy, we still have to deal with the eggs, larva, and nymphs in the soil.

. Do NOT do soil drenches with soap, i don't care if it's horticultural soap, dish soap, or whatever. No soap in the soil line. None. Coco-based saponins as wetting agent is an entirely different thing, and they're okay. But that's beside the scope of this discussion, because coco-based saponins have no pest control characteristics.

. One could do an H2O2 drench to eliminate their source of food. But soil is supposed to be alive; now we'd be left off with no beneficial microbes, so...pass on that.

. Go Gnats by Earth Juice is a popular seller at hydro shops. So is Gnatrol. I have had hits & misses with both, so I cannot recommend them based on experience. That is not to say that they don't work, just that in my world, they found no home due to poor performance.

. SM-90 has proven effective to kill larva as a drench. It is a combination of canola and coriander oils. Although I have not experienced any negative effects while using, it is not my preferred method of gnat control because the oils do have a potential to occlude element channels at root zone levels, more often, the calcium channels. So I've learned to save this method for when I'm broke...and in the meantime, for safety, I'd clone a branch or two as backup, just in case my run ends up failing.

. Azadirachtin. My preferred method of control. I'm not talking neem oil, I'm talking soluble azadirachtin extract. NEVER do a neem oil drench! The oil will remain on the top of the soil line. It will not penetrate the soil evenly, it will form pockets of glob and reduce aeration. If some neem oil touches the roots, it will cause nutrient channel blockages and prompt deficiencies.

Azadirachtin comes in many forms. The most popular soluble aza brands are GH's Azamax, AzaSol, and BioFloral's AzaPlus. My favorite is AzaPlus. It is highly concentrated, it dissolves best, and has minimal odor--virtually none. Out of the three, it is the one that has helped me achieve the best pest control, not only for gnats, but also as systemic mite, whitefly, and thrip control. It has also been the only brand that I can say has not affected the bouquet / taste of my final product.

Now, there has been a rumor that azadirachtin is toxic and can harm humans. This is bullshit, azadirachtin is safe for humans and pets. The reason an MSDS would indicate wearing gloves while handling is because these products are typically sold in concentrated form, but they're intended to be diluted. That's all that needs to be said about that. Systemic prophylaxis is not always a bad thing. If not, ask anyone who's ever had the clap and gotten a shot of penicillin.

Speaking of Penicillin...two years ago I came in contact with a little something that helped my grow immensely. It's a penicillium inoculant called Dr. C's Biophos. It's penicillium fungi in a soybean meal carrier. Sure, penicillium is a fungi, but they produce penicillin...which is a natural, broad-spectrum antibiotic which will kill many soilborne pathogens. The soybean meal carrier also has naturally-occurring, slow-release N, whose breakdown might come in handy in the transitional period. A little goes a long, long way, and it complements other soil amendments well. It has helped prevent root rot in my grows, especially in soil or soilless mixes that contain mycorrhizae. Something worth considering for a future run.

My favorite soil amendment mix to add to either soil, coco, or peat is House & Garden's Rhizo Force + Plant Success Granular + Dr. C's Biophos + Microbe Lift Granular (mentioned below), at their recommended dosages per volume. I've used this amendment combo on my last 5 runs, not only as a preventative measure for soilborne pathogens, but as a source of slow-release nutrients for soil biology and plants alike. While I used it, I experienced no deficiencies and smooth, flawless transitions with minimal stress to my plants. As a matter of fact, my last 3 runs finished healthier than usual and although I know the plant is supposed to look a bit haggard at the end while flushing, my peers's faces when sampling the harvest put all fears to rest. I've never had a more successful streak than those 5 runs, so I'm passing it along to you. For a future run. But I digress...

. Another method to prevent gnats is the incorporation of bacillus Thuringiensis Israelensis, or BTI. Notice I said "prevent"; i've found them slow or ineffective in large infestations--the gnat reproduces far quicker than the number of larva BTI in substtate is able to kill, so numbers barely decrease. The trick is to use them early, in conjunction with a faster-killing method, or as prophylaxis before one has a problem (so that BTI colonies have time to multply and thoroughly colonize the substrate). Microbe Lift makes three BTI products: a liquid concentrate for mosquito larva control, solid mosquito dunk disks, and in granular form. I found that the carrier in the granular form protects the BTI inoculant if one is using tap (chlorinated) water, but its release is somewhat slow. The liquid form has a readily-available, activated form of the micro organism, but it's susceptible to Cl & chloramines, so I'd recommend it only if using RO or dechlorinated water. The disks can be used in 25- or 55-gal drums or reservoirs, as long as they're well-aerated. BTI is as effective killing gnat larva as it is for mosquito. Thuringiensis Israelenesis only, not subtilis. They're not the same. B. Subtilis may help prevent root rot (but generally speaking, our infections are tougher than the average agricultural case, so they end up being too weak for this purpose); B. Thuringiensis Israelensis literally sucks the life out of gnat larva.

. Now for a last suggestion: Additionally to the aforementioned choices, you can mulch your pots with 1"-2" of Growstone's Gnat Nix. It's a bit pricy, but worth it. Gnat Nix tends to stay up top (less dense than water) and will slice the shit out of any gnats that dare burrow through to get to the soil line. Gnat Nix is made of recycled bottles; their silicon oxide is not readily available for plant uptake, but the glass-like shards will definitely slice up and kill gnats. Works really well; lasts a long time.

I'm paranoid about gnats, but I know better than to pound my plants incessantly to eliminate a problem. I also have no personal interest in transmitting my neurosis to anyone, just in sharing good gardening practices. Spacing out waterings + sticky traps + scheduled incorporation of either aza, coriander oil, or H2O2 should do the trick. Preventing onset of larva with BTI is also recommended. As a final note, let us remember that pest control is just that: control. Not eradication, not obliteration. But in a controlled environment, where we lack nature's system of checks and balances, our aim is, indeed, to obliterate them. Shit yeah.

I hope this helps; best of luck with the grow!

"Argument is sugar and the rest of us are flies"
-Richard Wald
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

That definetly helps :) Awesome info there. I have azamax and mosquito dunks, and I picked up some fly ribbons (Haven't made it to the hydro store yet to get yellow sticky cards). My girls were pretty much dried out this am, so I did a drench with Azamax and sprinkled the mosquito dunks on surface of soil, as well as hung fly ribbons to catch the adults. This is the first time I've had these guys I had spidermites last year on my outdoor plants and by using azamax and spinosad alternatively was able to get rid of them.(I think it was more luck myself as I've heard spidermites are hell!) Also, I did a second round of LST to the girls since I just watered and will
Include pics below. Thank you for all the awesome information I am definitely using it as a go to guide now :thumb:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Here's my girls after a second round of LST, and 3 out of 4 I started in the other direction to spread the plant out more.

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Nothing too spectacular, just wanted to give everyone an update on the girls:volcano-smiley:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Lookin' good! :thumb:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Nice KG, looks like everything is going well and I have had good luck with azamax and sticky traps, see a few fungus nats but I can live with that. Your clones are looking real good and training looks real good, your on your way. KIG:high-five::volcano-smiley:
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

For sure, Thanks guys :thanks: I thought they were moving a little slow but maybe that's cause I wanna have big nice pictures to show off haha :) But I'm gonna just keep nurturing them and making adjustments as needed if needed. Now I read a few times about defoliating but only want to do that if it's 100% necessary and I figured that would be a ways on down the line. Thoughts on that? :thanks: in advance
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Also i'm on second week of veg, after plants seemed to take root fully. How long is considered a normal indoor veg time for 4 plants in training? And do you guys think my 3 gallon pots will be enough for how much space I want to grow into with them? I know noob questions but I know happy plants have happy roots from a few times I've had them outgrow pots as smaller plants. Just trying to cover all bases if possible and keep my girls happy :)
 
re: KGIRedline's - Soil - Mars LED 900 - 3.5x3.5 - GSC Triple & Gorilla Glue #4

Oh and update on the girls, the leaf damage has not spread and the new growth, or higher up growth for that matter, is doing well. I'm hoping it was either the gnats or from them being clones. I just went back and read again about the training possibly causing stress, but on one hand I wanted to get them going early. I'll veg my babies for as long as it takes to make a healthy flip to flower, no biggie. This time is a learning experience for me, but at same time I want the best for my girls too while trying not to "overnuture" them :) Thanks again for the guidance it is greatly appreciated. :thumb:
 
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