KingstonRabbi - Mendo Madness - Outdoor - 1st Grow

[KingstonRabbi]

Before I get to the grow, let me introduce myself.

I am using MMJ to treat cancer and repair the damage done by chemo. I decided to grow my own for juicing. I've been using 1:1 extract but I can't get my tolerance high enough to function at work. Juicing won't activate THC/CBD so I should tolerate it well.

So I will have up to 60 plants growing at same time. I also have an indoor grow that I will be journaling, and many more strains that I will be adding.

THE GROW: 5 Mendocino Madness from seed (TH Seeds)
Medium: soil, 50/50 Tagro/organic potting soil
size: 18 gallon tubs
strategy: extensive LST to keep plants low and wide
nutes: Foxfarm 3 bottles
location: my urban backyard
veg time: all summer long!

Started 2 plants on 4/1 and 3 on 5/1, planted directly in Tagro (more about this later). All 5 sprouted within 24 hours and quickly grew first pair of true leaves.

Then they did nothing for a couple weeks. I moved them from window sill to greenhouse to get more light but growth still slow. This is them about 5/07, more than a month after sprouting.

First question: What's causing slow growth and wide node spacing?
I had been over watering (I've now reformed my cruel ways). Temps were 66 on window sill, 65-75 daytime in greenhouse dropping some nights to 50.
Or could it be the soil. I finally got accurate pH reading of 5.5. May have elevated nitrogen, will test again tonight.

Tagro is locally made mix of biosolids, sawdust and bark. I love it because it drains quickly but holds water well also. My garden plants spread and reseed like crazy in it. And it's clean soil straight from composter. Analysis online says it has low available nitrogen, but it's possible that it's releasing more nitrogen faster than plants absorb it.

I will post current pics with nutrient test results tonight.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

One more thing.

The 4th and 5th leaf pairs came in all gnarly. Wondering if this is related to slow growth problem. I removed the top and growth since has been normal. It's plant on left.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

New soil test results show high nitrogen and pH of 5.5 for Tagro alone. Organic potting soil is pH 6.9.
I feel foolish now. Was wishful thinking that I could get away with something easy.

My plan to fix it: water existing soil with pH up, then repot one size up in potting soil to lower nitrogen, and invest in reliable soil tester.
I'm hoping that the growth problem wont cause long term problems. This is day 75 for the oldest but it sure doesn't look like it. I've got about 40 more days before flowering starts.

I'll need to decide on new soil mix for final repotting. Any suggestions? Simple is better for me. I'm thinking I can use just the potting soil, but that may be just more wishful thinking.
Are there any potential problems I should be aware of with plain potting soil, actually for raised beds? The one I have looks like mostly compost and bark mix without added fertilizer, perlite or other amendments.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Transplanted all 5 plants into 3 gallon pots with organic raised bed planting mix. N is medium, P & K are low, pH is 6.6. Soil mix does contain some nutrients: N=0.3, P=0.1, K=0.1. I will watch nitrogen to make sure it is getting used up.

Can anyone recommend a reliable tester?

Sorry for lack of pictures. Have problem uploading at moment.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Plants responding well to repotting, finally growing like I expected a month ago. All my seedlings were delayed about a month , clones on schedule, so I have to reorganize my whole juicing plan.
On deck are white widow, carmelicious auto, white lsd auto, sad auto, dutch amnezia haze, hash bomb. 60 plants total. I knew I was in over my head on this plan. Even with all that's gone wrong I still have enough material to pull it together.
Next decision will be to grow in or out for WWs. If natural flowering starts in august I still have time to grow decent size plants. Was planning to force indoors, but delay may line up with outdoor grow.

 

[pbird]

I been using fix farm ocean soil and it seems to bee doing great. The guy at the grow store told me that the nutes in the soil should be good for up to 3 weeks on its own. So i just been adjusting the ph water ive been giving it. After the three weeks I slowly started adding nutes. The nutes I been using is ph balanced so I haven't been so particular on checking the ph and testing the soil. Now my dwc hydro system was a diff story tho.

 

[unforgiven]

hiya rabbi!! welcome aboard.

couple things I see from your pics.

1. how long were the seedlings in that green container? answer it is too shallow and can cause the roots to do goofy things.

2. how big are those pots in the pic at more than a month? answer when up potting you want to slowly do so ie: sprout in a solo cup, go up to a 6" pot, then a gallon and so on. you want your roots to fill the pot before upping. a general rule of thumb for easily id'n that is the leaves will overlap the pot or cup edge. let dry well before re potting so nothing breaks up when u release it from the original.

3. your temps I would say were definitely a factor as well in slowing it down. 50...wow low temps.

4. overwatering. yep we all do it sometime. I think I recently posted that "you kind of feel like the expectant or new parent. watching and touching too much" basically something like that. these girls like to dry some before getting wet again. get to know the feel/weight of your pots wet or dry and that will help a lot. also let the plant tell you when to water, believe me, she will.

you can avoid some of the stretch by gently pulling back the leaves at the top nodes opening up so the smaller ones get more light. If I recall, lightaddict has a great thread on just that theory. find him, it will be in his signature.

as for testers.......i'm a dirt grower too. I don't have any testers, lol. my girls are my testers. they will tell me if I screw up. maybe not the best way to some, but I find it puts me more in tune with my plants if I pay attention to what they have to say.

some others will likely have better advice for you on at minimum the testers, and maybe spank me for giving bad advice? idunno. I do what works for me for the most part. and I always have questions too, like most everyone at one time or another.

again, to

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Thanks for input unforgiven.
Plant were only in green container for sprouting with lid. I moved them to 4" pots immediately, and roots have reached edge each time I've potted up.
I now think that temps were main factor. In reading grow journals I never read of anyone taking plants in at night except Redmud), so I assumed they could handle cold nights.
Oops. Well they're still alive and now growing well. Live and learn.
Now I'm off to check out your grow journal. I've just started some clones of Dutch Treat. My wake'n bake.

 

[unforgiven]

nice, how do you like dutch treat? its new for me.

as to outdoors that is another issue. but yeah the temps will matter.

live and learn is all we do if we wish to excel.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

My tolerance is so high from using oil that I can't feel the head high, but vaping DT still gives me a nice mood and energy boost, hits smoothly. It does have a let down phase after a couple hours so sometimes I follow up with a lunch bake. I use one of those spice grinders from Trader Joe's, looks like I'm just adding seasoning to my subway sandwich. (That Kingston sure loves his oregano!)

 

[KingstonRabbi]

This is my plants immediately after transplanting to 3 gal. Temps were up last few days and growth is back on track. Ready for training this week.

Here's a look at the roots before transplanting MM#2. This is fullest pot, but all had reached edge of pot. The cold stunted them, but otherwise they look healthy. Training picks to come.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

When do plants outdoors start flowering in Pacific Northwest? Latitude 47.

I know every strain is different, so i guess im really asking how flower times and harvest dates listed by breeder compare to my latitude.

First example: harvest for MM is listed as Sep 1-15. 8 weeks flowering puts start of flowering in mid July when we still have 15 hours of daylight. We still have 14 hrs in August. Will this strain actually flower that early? If so it may explain why some growers have reported autoflowering tendency (which THSeeds denies.)

2nd example: White Widow harvest is late Oct. so flowering would start late August. I was going to flower these inside, but thinking might take advantage of extra veg time outdoors if I can count on harvesting no later than Oct.

Trying to coordinate outdoor grow harvest with perpetual indoor grow I'm setting up. If i can rely on harvest dates (+/-week) it makes sense to grow some of these outside.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Also need to know how late i can veg outside before plants start to flip on their own. Realizing that I'll need to set up an indoor veg room sooner rather than later.

 

[freidog]

I'm in for the grow, Kingston!


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Welcome Freidog!

 

[Amadeus Forzin]

Seeing as you were over at my yard, it's only right I check out what you have going on. I'm a soil grower, I use BioBizz allmix, it's ph buffered to 6.6 so I have no need to test or adjust it, Get your soil right and it will grow the plants for you. I saw unforgiven give you some sound advise on temps and soil etc, listen to him, he knows his stuff.

 

[unforgiven]

This is my plants immediately after transplanting to 3 gal. Temps were up last few days and growth is back on track. Ready for training this week.

Here's a look at the roots before transplanting MM#2. This is fullest pot, but all had reached edge of pot. The cold stunted them, but otherwise they look healthy. Training picks to come.

my question on this, is what pot was that plant in, to have such a shallow root bed?

just like I was saying about that lil green starter tray, you need depth as well to get height.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Sorry I've slacked off on updating my journal. I've been a little overwhelmed by life recently and also having technology issues (including breaking my phone with more recent pics.)

Regarding the pot sizes, the green container was strictly for germinating with the moisture dome, they did not spend any time growing in it but went into 4" pots immediately.
In pic above the pot was 1.5 gal, so 8" deep same as 1 gal nursery pot but wider. Pic doesn't show well but there are roots all through the top half of soil.

Here are some pics from 6/28, 5 days after last pics.
MM#2: Topped above 3rd node with 4 branches trained horizontally so side shoots grow up. It's doubled in size since then and I topped 4 main shoots again this weekend.

MM#1: Topped above 5th node, then decided to try LST to make sure it stays well below fence. At that time it was fastest growing plant but #2 has passed it since then. 4 branch pairs trained sideways, bottom pair allowing to grow up even with others before training.

MM#3: topped and LST similar to #1.

MM#5:

Apparently I forgot to take pic of #4 which I tried to fim but doesn't seem to have worked. It's the smallest plant and this late in season I think I can let it grow without worrying about height.

Next step is to transplant to final containers this weekend. Breeder specs list flowering as 6-7 weeks with harvest early Sept. Based on that I expect veg to continue about 2 more weeks.
I was planning to use 18 gal tubs for final pot. Would that be too large considering they are still in 3 gal?

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Here they are today. #4 is in back right corner. I went ahead and topped it to encourage side growth. I also let them loose from lst temporarily for a little more vigorous growth until I get them into big pots.

 

[unforgiven]

well if you're only veging 2 more weeks I would say there isn't time to fill out the 18 gal pots. so when you go into bloom, the tops will be fighting the roots to fit in either way. possibly wrecking the first couple weeks of bloom.

the first couple weeks of bloom they will stretch, but if they are trying to fill a pot still at that time they will stretch down instead of up.

what about going to a 5 gal pot this time? and with better planning and up potting you can get them into the 18 gal pots.