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Landrace Genetics 101


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Sorry, this was first post in this place, i see now..
i think as you crossed it to golden tiger wich is of Thai and Malawi genes it might have helped, cause summing up very close genes: Thai and thai. that is actually what i also would have tried too. Cause a tiny Little Outcrossing in the last cross can make a very vigorous plant. And i mean only a Little one. Per example crossing it to the Neigbourh-country or even more close, in this case Thai to Thai. I just heart the cross of Vietnam nord and Vietnam sud was creating the powerfull Vietnam-Black Strain. Aswell as crossing Vietnam to Thai i heard of the same insane hallucinogenic Qualities. And also the Strong mythical Landrace Gems may have gone to a last step of Outcrossing to some extent. That might be a part of why some Thais are just average, and the others are insane. I think to strong Hybridisation on the one Hand and Incrossing of say Familymembers, or Neighbors even Cannabis-Valleys is said short ; not perfekt reciep for a Full power mythical Experience, it is rather a breeding-path that might even look like tree-structure. And might have acured in old times when ganja was legal,and therefore was freely traded...
And nowdays, as it is ilegal this trade/Exchange often stagnates. Thats why i think slight outcrossing heals the todays assumable leftovers we got wich i think are often going to much into inbreeding because of this Stagnation.
If i would have your Ace Thaistick-seeds i would cross it to a willie Nelson(Vietnam) or a Hoa -Bac(Vietnam), or other Thais. Eventually mamathai....
so i think you were on the right trail crossing of the nearest, but not same genes: Thai x Thai. (only that golden tiger has a relatively weak Thai inside) . This is just my opinion. Probably it helps, cause i think there is quiet something hidden inside this Genes you have....

Managed to miss this post till now. Good thoughts, thanks. I wonder if there might be some good hidden landracey qualities in the T Stick. There might well be. But at this point I’m inclined to go looking elsewhere. Really if I had the money for a vacation I’d love to go back to that one town in Thailand where I smoked the best stuff I ever found. I hope someday I get the chance to do it. Not likely I’ll find the same stuff again, but you never know. Not that big a place and the same genetics must be floating around there somewhere.


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Managed to miss this post till now. Good thoughts, thanks. I wonder if there might be some good hidden landracey qualities in the T Stick. There might well be. But at this point I’m inclined to go looking elsewhere. Really if I had the money for a vacation I’d love to go back to that one town in Thailand where I smoked the best stuff I ever found. I hope someday I get the chance to do it. Not likely I’ll find the same stuff again, but you never know. Not that big a place and the same genetics must be floating around there somewhere.
to weaslkracker:
I think this Insane strains are really dying , at least it is a possiblety, but i dont believe in their death forever. Just the possible free trade would recreate them. We just would actually have to Isolate our modern crosses from the natural Dynamics wich create the base of our Gems we want itself. Wild Cannabis, wich might be weak(most often). And then do the right crossings (ancient) People once did. Im quit shure it all emerged trough trail and error, not like komplex breeding tec. Bassicly all our Food was createt out of (weak) ground material, and has become 10 times as vigorous. So why this modern Strains could also not degenerate once they are at maximum. In fact EVERY Meal is made out of Outcrosses in the last step. It is bassicly a rule, to get Maximum, we NEVER ever inbreed as last Step in Foodbuisness, and they should know what they do to some big extent. Ok they also do outcrossing cause of Uniformity, but also cause of vigorousity. Every Penny Counts there. The main difference is they cross out too hard very often. I actually believe, we can only create things that our nature also could, but are veeery unlikely, close to historical/godlike. BUT we cant breed to untrue like our (modern Sativa/Indica Hybrids) without getting Paranoia/Sideeffects or Unhealtiness/unresistence in Foodplants.
that still doesent mean that something Special does accure if you just little-outcross your plant for shure, but i believe, the potential is unequal bigger than crossing of to far away genetics like everyone does to gain Power. Your Thaistick might be imbreed, so the question remains, if there is one or two Outcrossings that might help it . Since it hypotetically has a breeding-pattern/history like a tree, but the tree Needs another branch to be fully grown. Or acording the other Thesis has some blurry inbreeding in some of the biggest (branches) of that tree, wich might indicate two things 1: we lost our Genetics to some extinct , or 2": we set a base-branch/very little branch/blurry branch at a very big branch, meaning therefore we could probably hide that trough putting another Big Branch to the already existing Big Branch and acording to it the missplaced base-branch/Little branch is no more so prominent in our growing history. Or itfits better.
Ist all very theoretical, but i just layed out mi thoughts while writing now, since im thinking very often on this and all sorts of thematics. Probaly it helps someone. It is just very intresting Thema. Cause it also lets us know if Landrace-Juwels are dying, or on the other said if we can hold on to them in future. Or probably evering changes, and one day we have such a equal mix-mash that plants will do something kompletely different. I also dont know if we let nature do ist natural Thing, meaning if we would implant our mixed genetics into nature, would it become natural Base-matreal again. I actually could imagine that we even could doo this Base-Material ourselve trough inbreeding. So if say we have northern, western, southern, but no more eastern thai-genes we actually could inbreed northern and southern material (the material around eastern) to recreate the eastern base-material/little-branch material.
Again this are just thoughts, i just wanted to share them. And for shure it wouldnt be intelligent trying all this theories out for to Long if you only have 3, 4 different South-asian Strains ahold. So if it doesnt work (wouldnt improove) with 3 to 4 Trial and Errors, then you probably wouldnt be on the right way, ad i would rather go to Thailand and get new matireal, and the base-matireal creation taht i spoke in lower section here would need much more steps in crossing until i can imagine a good result. In this case i would eventually rather gather more Thai-seeds from Thailand. But if something improves dramatically, or you see Progress (in the section of Base-Materieal/inbreeding creation pheno-forming), you might be on the right way , it might be more of a Feeling Thing, rather than the normal breeding lectures are. Anyway, i will try to do some ofthis things i speak eventually myself. If i only had some of your thai-beans.... but im new here
Aloah everyone
Just a Picture (not mine) double-Thai from ace: Thai x Thai:



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I dont believe the current corporate system of so called "free market" is going to produce quality sativa, its much too easy and fast to create a fast maturing self flowering indica with generic stone. Imagine what kind of weed you would buy at WalMart....
Recent events have produced opportunities for custom growers in southern latitude states like Oklahoma (or Arkansas, New Mexico) to produce small amounts of outdoor grown landrace "recreations" that will never be exactly the same as the originals but maybe...as good or on occasion even better.? Optimistic any way..


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to ImOne:
I Believe in other things myselve too, not in that wat i lay out here. no , we can assume, and occasionaly out of Assumtion, there grows proven fact. I actually see already possible indications of what say. Mostly in when i said inbreeding between two regions would create Basic Material/Wild Landrace: People say by inbreeding all becomes very unstable. Doesent this Sound like the reapearing of something like :Basic wild Landrdrace Material? Like something quiet diffrent Comes out of it. the Gap between northern and southern Thai wasent briged/clustered, no it dissolved/filled..
Not to Sound stupid. I mean crossing south. Thai x North. Thai, this(F1) i cross to noth. Thai, this (F2) i cross to south. Thai and .and .and .. zigzag inbreeding. Still some Kind of inbreeding after multiple Generations.
Also, if the one People say ONLY Landrace are good, but some say they where dissapointed of it , it doesent seem that easy. So i just hear around with open ears and soonly the others say: ONLY strong Outcrossing creates our daily Foodhybrids, they grow at leas one third bigger(same like in Cannabis). But hold on.. they are all are much less resistent. I then didnt know better . So i just thought what if the truth lies somehow in the middle... that would explain why much Thaiweeds and co. high ranges from normal Insane. This is a slight Indication too, the rapid rise in potency of some rare Thai examples. . .wich Looks same like the rapid rise in strong Outcrosses.
thank you for the info on this Preservation -Projects you said. Could you provideus with a link?

And here i made some Illustration, of what ive told in my last four Posts:



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Ok I have a little more time to answer this.
Basically my opinion of that Thai Stick strain hasn’t changed since I posted about it. It just seems like a low grade Thai ditchweed. Ace dropped the strain and I’m sure they wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t come to the same conclusion.

As I’m sure I’ve blathered about before on this thread I spent a few years in Thailand and a lot of the weed there was weak. Occasionally you’d get some that was a mile above the rest. But to me Thai weed seemed like a pretty homogenous strain. There wasn’t all the variety you see in our lives now. It was all Thai and the same basic type of high. Just some was stronger than the rest. It’s still my favourite type of high.

I think whoever in Thailand originally sold the ‘Thai Stick’ seeds as ‘the stuff we used to make the sticks from’ - wasn’t lying. It’s reasonably typical Thai weed. They just must not have put any effort into selecting the best stuff.

Here are pics of a couple Thai Stick x G. Tiger crosses I harvested fairly recently.

I grew out three of these crosses in total and they were all interesting plants. Hard to control the height though and they took about 18 weeks to finish. The Thai Stick genetics really watered down the strength of the GT. Smoked up the first one. Busy curing the last two. (I almost forgot about that first GTx till now. I guess because I smoked it all, lol)

GTx2. The most Thai, or Thai Stick leaning pheno. Long pointy skinny buds.

GTx3. More of the GT in this one. Very sticky with smaller rounder buds. Looks like bit of a mess because she wanted to be twelve feet tall and I kept mangling her to keep her around six.

Re the brown bud thing I’ll seize the chance to mention that. Not that you asked :) ha ha but I saw it in your quote and can’t resist updating.
Someone figured out that you can ferment the bud by vacuum sealing it moist and keeping it warm. There’s a thread here that SweetSue started.

Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

Basically everything you need to know is in the first post of the thread. Even that’s probably more info than you need. Just vac seal it when it’s still moist, stick it somewhere warm for a while, and it will give a nice fermented cure.

You can see the love in those plants.


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Romano...i only suggest that we may see a growth in these preservation breeders based on the people i have met here on 420...i think your thai beeeding project sounds like a good idea. Remember though in breeding or close line breeding requires a strong phenotype with no genetic weaknesses.
Waht you describe actually sounds like a close outcross, and hoping the strains have a common ancestor. Assuming that is risky since you have no idea what that ancestor smoked like???


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Yes imone
Thank you for chatting about that thema.
it is just assumtion, since i have no Reference. since i have yet to see a plant that someone can say 100 Prozent for shure : this is 100 Prozent landrace. But people actually mostly agree that left alone wild Landraces are the most stable Thing ever. So it is a assumption with an possible Indiz. And once i would be about to aprove that Idea, (Stability of my created Inbreed-Genes is the same like Stability ofeventual wild ones) it would become a Possibility.
Actually we would have to call many of our examples of Landraces IBL`s, but everyone calls them landraces thats why i also do. Landrace means it is basically untouched by man.
Would be fascinating to see one Exemplar that can be proofen to be unaltered. Did actually Literatur apear to Landraces of other plants? There is a totally same Thema going on about Food-Hybrids versus older Food Plants. Now they just start crossing the new Hybrids with the oldest Genes they can find, probably just create a simple Hybrid out of it and thats it. i dont think that is very intresting. probably a tiny bit, but may lead to nowhere.
These modern Breeders mostly only teach what we can do with our Hand. CAUSE they often calculate/predict what could emerge out of Genes they are holding right now. Im so much more intrested in what might be out there. And i think we should something like SEE what happend there only by Nature, and what may has happend trough human Hands in earlyer Stages.
It is the first time in hitory that we accept that with to strong mixup of genes we are coming into a Misery. I think we Need more Breedingtechniks. and in Cannabis we couple of Canna-Trip Experienced Freaks have a strong clue that there was a better time before (time of IBL`s), so we have some Indiz that worldwide crosses are bader. So in the first time in History we are dislead, but we are Aware of our Situation . So what more Theories are out there? Do you have some..


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My contacts say there are, but who am i to know? I wouldnt recognize a landrace from a modern hybrid. Even with that knowledge persons can be fooled since a landrace phenotype can emerge as a 'cropout' from generations of modern breeding. I would think breeding landrace to landrace would provide a stable platform and certainly someone needs to preserve as much of this genetic material as possible. In the end though, if it doesnt do something unique the variety will die out.
My history and back ground is in livestock. Certain breeds of cattle do certain things well. Texas longhorn cattle are the closest thing we have to a landrace breed. They are actually feral cattle but reverted to a primitive form that does well in hostile and forbidding conditions. They dont produce marbled meat, or much milk but can survive with little attention and in conditions that herds of angus or herford cattle could not. Keeping strains of landrace marijuana pure is a noble goal but strains that have a certain high or a genetic resilience are more likely to be chosen for continued cultivation.
I remember quite distinctly the high from Columbian Red, for instance from my teen years in the 70s. I would love to reproduce that. If i can find a strain that does that, or better a couple of strains that do, i would like to cross them to reach a stable hybrid.
In the end strains that do certain things in a unique way...will be chosen for the future.


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In the end though, if it doesnt do something unique the variety will die out.
My history and back ground is in livestock. Certain breeds of cattle do certain things well.
Don't think cattle - think dogs. All the little SOBs eat, bark and sh!t, lol - but there are hundreds of different breeds (and crosses of same) out there, thanks to everybody and their brother having their own idea of what's "best."

There are few "landraces" left. The Irish wolfhound - mighty cú faoi, the reason there are no more wolves in Ireland - nearly vanished into the mists of time. The breed was preserved, and now they are still present. But perhaps not exactly the same as cú faoi, eh?

Texas longhorn cattle are the closest thing we have to a landrace breed.
...but certainly not aurochs (which hasn't been seen on this plane since 1627).

Or maybe cattle is not a bad "frame of mind," here. I have heard Pineywoods described as a landrace breed. Although historically non-native, they adapted to their environment through natural selection. And I don't think there are many left.


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to imone: very intresting things you say about cattles. Can you help me: what did you mean with "they are actually feral cattle but reverted"? how could they be reverted if they already was wild? was they now wilder or less wild than before? thanks, sounds amazing, if they was reverted, probably i will read a bit

and to tort... did you mean the:the reinforcment of the cú faoi competed with the wild wolfhound and made the last ones disapear? Thanks, if so . for shure we probably shouldnt just implant anything touched by man into nature just like that. I also wouldnt. But the recreation of wild Races is still intresting and could be done separatly.


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Texas Longhorns were cattle that descended from the domestics brought by the spanish and english but evolved into a different breed that could survive in the wild.
I used cattle dor an example because mj is not a pet, its a useful herb and will be propagated for certain uses. Nigerian sunshine is known as a ptsd strain, northern lights for insomnia, durban as a wake me up....etc


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I think we need to be aware of the dangers of domestication...that is allowing marijuana to become a"hothouse flower" that cannot survive outside of domestication. The dna creep from industrial hemp is a concern as well. If corporate america has its way and they seize control of the supply, renegade and preservation breeders will be looked at as a problem. I plan to buy landrace seeds while i can and they are relatively inexpensive.


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conradino23 I saw your smoke report on the m2 strain. I was looking at that close as it was recommended by another. If you say it is crossed with indica I will not get it.

That Nanan Bouclou really ripped me up the last time I smoked. 3 hits and I was frying. Very intense stuff. Takes me back to LSD days a bit. hehe The closest I have now as far as trip weed. It has a indica structure and very strong odor and taste but a clean soaring high. The taste is some of the best I have had. If you like fruity tastes you will love it. I read the indica looking pheno is Haitian but red stems are New Guinea. Mine has both so not sure what I have. It fries me like a egg on a skillet though.

The Swami Guerrero is so pleasant a high. I think it is actually a Lebanese hash plant that was grown in Guerrero. I can sleep pretty soon after smoking it. Taste is kind of garlic as they say, not sure exactly but it is distinctive.


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The pistils are much more orange than the flash lets on. 14 weeks 11/13 from seed fed Maxibloom at 1 tsp per gallon for the full grow. I pooch screwed the pH for about 6 weeks early on and she still turned out frosty.

These are just the 4 tops, everything below the supercrop knuckles still needs more time
Columbian Red Point x Unknown Swami genetics.


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Purple Zacatecas, eh? Must have been stored in the freezer a long time :)
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