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Landrace Genetics 101

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
All kush strains come from Afganistan region, Robert C. Clarke wants to actually rename cannabis indica a cannabis afghanica, but I don't know if that sticks. Afghan Kush, Mazar-i-Shariff and Hindu Kush are pretty much the same strain, but local varieties might show different traits. There are also landrace indicas to be found in Pakistan, Mongolia, China and Uzbekistan :Namaste:
 

Canyon

Well-Known Member
Con23,

Re: #42 in part.

I have a plant called Mazar-I-shireff that is listed as pure indica or a 80/20, hybrid with Skunk #1 depending on where you look. Can you add anything about this.

When I get a new strain it is usually a clone from a dispensary. When I can I try to get an eighth of store bought to compare when I flower the clone. Hard times are hard times. I smoked about five hundred dollars worth of small bags recently. The Mazar was not that impressive as something strong but was a nice smoke probably the CBD. Not everything from a dispensary turns out to be the best grown though most is.

You have been collecting strains much longer than I have.

Anything you can add will help.

FYI I think I have read the paper by Robert C. Clarke or a similar one. IMHO It is logical but probably will not catch on.

Best
canyon
 

Canyon

Well-Known Member
Con23,

Just a bit more,

The Mazar is next to flower. I am just getting around to catching up on what to expect and have not flowered it before.

The one I have I suspect is 80/20 only from the leaves. They are indica but not hard core indica.

The one described as 100% is also described as having 12 foot capabilities. The 80/20 is described as a rather short conifer like plant. I just want to know what I have. I am disipointed but think I have the 80/20. better to know than not.

The store sends emails of there menu with the sativa indica mix. I will look around. (well they don't I checked)

best
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
Original one is just another line of Afghani, but breeders can capitalize on the name and release whatever they want.
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
Researching the 'history' of my landrace/heirloom seed collection, it seems that the Mexican hump landraces date back to the mid 1500s when the Spanish brought hemp to the colonies in the Americas, particularly Mexico and Chile where it was originally grown for fiber, but subsequently grown for psychoactive purposes. Marijuana growing in Mexico seemed to gain prevalence in the mid 1800s when pot smoking became more popular there. It was subsequently outlawed in many cities in Mexico in the later 1800s when growing and distribution went underground. Marijuana then resurged in popularity in Mexico in the early 1900s, when it spread north into the US. The strains that I have are from regions of the south western Mexican states, where Marijuana has always been popular; from Puerto Vallarta south to about Acapulco. The strains are named for the states they are from, like Guerrero, Michoacán, Morelos, and Oaxaca. The Mexican strains did not vary that much in character and are generally uplifting highs as a group. Some later strains from Mexico that I have were obviously improved in the early 1980s and were much stronger though, and one strain that I got from Guerrero in 1975 was truly epic; one joint and you were completely stoned out of your mind.
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
And continuing my research on Colombia... I think that the wide variety of my Colombia landraces from such a small region stem from the fact that marijuana growing in Colombia was not cranked up until the early 1970s. Some strains date back much earlier than that though, to about 1850. Historically, the widespread growing of hemp in Central America and the Caribbean did not ramp up until the mid 1800s. It was elevated there by the slave/run/sugar trade, from imported labor from South Asia who brought ganja with them, sourcing the demand by previously imported African sourced slaves. Costa Rica, Jamaica and Panama City were places known for having a lot of marijuana in the late 1800s. Panama was part of Columbia until 1903, and so it is likely that Colombian Red is the same as Panama Red, and a very old landrace. Urban legend says that Simon Bolivar traded marijuana and was the source of Columbian Gold being taken to Santa Marta and the mountain regions of northern South America. However, that claim is not substantiated. Reportedly in the 1930s marijuana was grown and smoked in north Colombia around Barranquilla, by the black and 'criminal' populations. During WWII some development was done to grow more hemp for the war effort, but the real kicker from growing weed in Colombia came in the late 1960s. At that time it is likely that strains were imported and crossed to result in the wide variety of weed that came from Colombia in the 1970s. I have Colombian seeds from different single and combined color gold, brown, red, and green tops, both bricked and loose. The highs were all varied as well, from narcotic 'crawl under the couch and pass out' bricked brown weed to pleasantly uplifting green, red and gold Santa Marta tops. I also have some seeds from Colombia green what was dubbed 'wacky weed'. A half joint would absolutely put you in another state of mind. That stuff I sold with a warning. Then I have seeds of Punta Roja that is truly hallucinogenic psycho weed.
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
Hey BigSur, that's some great info :thumb:
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
Hey BigSur, that's some great info :thumb:
De nada. I have been trying to wade through the myths and legends and sorting through my notes taken back in the 1970s when I stored these seeds. I have several older books on pot that are pretty good and they cover the early trade sources for weed in California. I had not thought to include the fact that Columbia is near the Panama Canal and thus there would have been an ample supply of MJ and hemp seeds pouring through that region since the canal was opened in 1914.

Unlike Hawaii. BTW, I take exception to your first post here by Rick Pfrommer on several counts. I have seen that essay posted a lot on the web. The author claims that the marijuana scene in Hawaii was way ahead of NorCal and the mainland, and that we were behind the times when it came to weed in the 1970s. My experience was the exact opposite. I sent weed from Morelos to my brother when he was living on Maui in the late 1970s and it blew everyone there away. No one believed it was from the mainland. No one. Except it was. He finally gave up and told people it was from Lanai. Anyway, the only really good stuff from Hawaii that I toked was from an ex-roommate of mine that had sailed back to California from Hawaii. That was Kona Gold hash, and that was good stuff. But overall? The stuff I smoked from Hawaii was not as good as what I was getting on the mainland. I was a chef at that time and I had a dishwasher working for me from Hawaii that brought in some Maui Waui for me to try. So I gave him some 'Mexican' to try. The next day he wanted to trade me the Maui Waui for the Mexican. I said no. The weed from Hawaii that I smoked was just not all that legendary. *shrug* Ganja was legendary. Blonde Lebanese hashish was legendary. Panama Red was legendary.
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
Another thing I do not agree with in the original post is that we hippies 'travelled the earth' looking for pot strains. I do not know anyone that did that. I knew people that went travelling abroad looking for weed and hashish to bring back, but it was not the seeds that they were after. I never went looking for seeds abroad myself. All I did was buy weed locally in NorCal and save the seeds. The seeds came to me. No travel required. Though I have traveled extensively around western and southern Mexico and the Banana Republics. I ate a lot of bananas in Mexico (more stories to tell about that, with another Hawaii twist). All the mota that I smoked in Mexico I took with me from California though. I never brought any weed or seeds back from south of the border. MJ was not legal in Mexico and I was pulled off of busses and trains by the Federales at gunpoint several times because I was a gringo with long hair. I was guilty until proven poor, and then they let me go. They always looked for drugs, but they never found any. Same with the border patrol and immigration getting back into the states. I came very close once to getting busted for hashish at the border though (another story). Too close.
 

Growlow

Well-Known Member
I love this post. I have a handful of landrace genetics in my vault the most special of these is Papua New Guinea Gold. The real mccoy of this strain is in the depths of the Highlands of PNG, where if AID's doesn't kill you some tribe will! I grew up with a native to PNG who gifted me many bags of PNG Gold all filled with seed :) I find it intriguing how many Landrace strains are marked with the Gold Stamp ;)
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
I love this post. I have a handful of landrace genetics in my vault the most special of these is Papua New Guinea Gold. The real mccoy of this strain is in the depths of the Highlands of PNG, where if AID's doesn't kill you some tribe will! I grew up with a native to PNG who gifted me many bags of PNG Gold all filled with seed :) I find it intriguing how many Landrace strains are marked with the Gold Stamp ;)
I hope that your seed vault is in the freezer. They will last up to 5 years or so in a sealed jar, but they will last forever if kept dry and frozen. I have seeds that are well over 35 years old now that are #all# germinating after being kept in the freezer. The seed coats have to be nicked or filed before germinating though, as they get harder as they age.
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
And speaking of gold, I have never found out where Kona Gold came from. Word and general agreement is that the Maui strains were all from seeds from Thai sticks. The only story about Kona Gold that I have read is about a Hawaiian that came back from Colombia with some Colombian Gold and he threw the seeds on the ground when he was rolling a joint. More likely they just planted seeds from lids of Colombian gold pot, and that was that. There are also lots of stories of why Colombian Gold was gold, and how they girdled the plants after flowering to force the green chloroplasts in the leaves to die, leaving the golden colored carotene in the leaves. However, I have planted and grown several strains of Colombian gold in NorCal, and it was all naturally gold in color. No fancy processing was required. The damn things never fully matured though.
 

Growlow

Well-Known Member
I hope that your seed vault is in the freezer. They will last up to 5 years or so in a sealed jar, but they will last forever if kept dry and frozen. I have seeds that are well over 35 years old now that are #all# germinating after being kept in the freezer. The seed coats have to be nicked or filed before germinating though, as they get harder as they age.
In my lab, I have cryo freezers and regular stand alone freezers. It's refreshing to have someone who shares the same knowledge. The same principle of cold and dry applies to pollen with an emphasis on the dry!
 

Malvedes

Well-Known Member
In my lab, I have cryo freezers and regular stand alone freezers. It's refreshing to have someone who shares the same knowledge. The same principle of cold and dry applies to pollen with an emphasis on the dry!
Agreed. I have several strains of pollen in the freezer here in half dram vials as well. Supposedly it will last for up to 2 years? This is the first year I have frozen pollen. Pollen is really hard to dry. Sativa pollen is finer, drier and easier to freeze than indica IME. My indica pollen tended to clump unless I dried it for an entire afternoon. I processed several ounces of 'male' flowers and it is actually quite good smoke, with reasonable THC and CBD. I will grow females from the same landrace/heirloom seeds next year and use the pollen to seed them up heavily in self fertilization and indica x sativa and sativa x indica trials.

I also picked up an heirloom clone teen of for really cheap at a local MJ store last week to over winter indoors here. Ghost: AKA Ghost OG, and Ghost OG Kush. Supposedly it is the mother of all OG strains from the early 90s in South Florida. It is already deep purple (genetics and fall temps), and is already reeks with barely 20 leaves on it. Talk about an heirloom that no one really knows anything concrete about. That is one. No seeds available for it, I presume that the seeds from it are too variable or unstable?

BTW: I was at the Hemp convention this weekend in Portland and saw that they already have sterile fem seeds out there that will bloom but not produce any seeds. Maybe great for making sinsemillia, but terrible for breeders. I can smell Monsanto or ADM out there already mucking around with hemp genetics. Buy seeds, every year, from us!
 

Growlow

Well-Known Member
Agreed. I have several strains of pollen in the freezer here in half dram vials as well. Supposedly it will last for up to 2 years? This is the first year I have frozen pollen. Pollen is really hard to dry. Sativa pollen is finer, drier and easier to freeze than indica IME. My indica pollen tended to clump unless I dried it for an entire afternoon. I processed several ounces of 'male' flowers and it is actually quite good smoke, with reasonable THC and CBD. I will grow females from the same landrace/heirloom seeds next year and use the pollen to seed them up heavily in self fertilization and indica x sativa and sativa x indica trials.

I also picked up an heirloom clone teen of for really cheap at a local MJ store last week to over winter indoors here. Ghost: AKA Ghost OG, and Ghost OG Kush. Supposedly it is the mother of all OG strains from the early 90s in South Florida. It is already deep purple (genetics and fall temps), and is already reeks with barely 20 leaves on it. Talk about an heirloom that no one really knows anything concrete about. That is one. No seeds available for it, I presume that the seeds from it are too variable or unstable?

BTW: I was at the Hemp convention this weekend in Portland and saw that they already have sterile fem seeds out there that will bloom but not produce any seeds. Maybe great for making sinsemillia, but terrible for breeders. I can smell Monsanto or ADM out there already mucking around with hemp genetics. Buy seeds, every year, from us!
I've heard from reliable sources the Ghost was an F1 from the original OG Kush breeding, and with it came the F1 hybrid vigour. Being a Paki Kush x Thai lemon crossed to a cutting of Chemdog supposedly. With all that said they can't ascertain whether OG stands for Ocean Grown as quoted by none other than Harold (Putz) OR.. if it came from the infamous Cypress Hill in their song K.U.S.H (I may have the wrong song) referencing Original Gangster when saying OG KUSH. I've never had it in my garden I know people with it and I've seen it at different stages. Awesome plant... I would take a cut but I just don't have room right now. My mate that has it wants me to Tissue culture it for him. Which I will do and in the process make a culture for myself also. I'm sitting on about 1100 Tissue cultures currently. So you could call me somewhat of a collector.

On the topic of Pollen there are some old school tricks that will do wonder for you. The first of these is rice. Depending on the size of the jar. It sounds silly but it works. The other is expanded polystyrene pellets. Both absorb water over time and if sealed correctly they both work sufficiently. I have pollen 4 years old that still worked so I'm not sure on the shelf life as I've never collected pollen that I keep longer than that. When I do I'll be sure to let you know mate ;)

I'm so anti GMO I almost made my name Nonsanto on here though my grow buddies have always called me Growlow so here we are. The genetics company I know up here is in the works with an ex Monsanto geneticist. They are working on making cuts that die after there growth cycle.. so that they cannot not be put into veg again or cuts taken from it die like a time bomb went off. It has led me to a crossroad where I have to cut ties. I can't be associated on someone who is so greedy they are ready to go to the darkside... My avatar is for kicks I'm a Jedi at heart!
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
De nada. I have been trying to wade through the myths and legends and sorting through my notes taken back in the 1970s when I stored these seeds. I have several older books on pot that are pretty good and they cover the early trade sources for weed in California. I had not thought to include the fact that Columbia is near the Panama Canal and thus there would have been an ample supply of MJ and hemp seeds pouring through that region since the canal was opened in 1914.

Unlike Hawaii. BTW, I take exception to your first post here by Rick Pfrommer on several counts. I have seen that essay posted a lot on the web. The author claims that the marijuana scene in Hawaii was way ahead of NorCal and the mainland, and that we were behind the times when it came to weed in the 1970s. My experience was the exact opposite. I sent weed from Morelos to my brother when he was living on Maui in the late 1970s and it blew everyone there away. No one believed it was from the mainland. No one. Except it was. He finally gave up and told people it was from Lanai. Anyway, the only really good stuff from Hawaii that I toked was from an ex-roommate of mine that had sailed back to California from Hawaii. That was Kona Gold hash, and that was good stuff. But overall? The stuff I smoked from Hawaii was not as good as what I was getting on the mainland. I was a chef at that time and I had a dishwasher working for me from Hawaii that brought in some Maui Waui for me to try. So I gave him some 'Mexican' to try. The next day he wanted to trade me the Maui Waui for the Mexican. I said no. The weed from Hawaii that I smoked was just not all that legendary. *shrug* Ganja was legendary. Blonde Lebanese hashish was legendary. Panama Red was legendary.
And that's why we need oldtimers with real life experience to contribute here and abolish the myths! Unfortunately I cannot say anything about 60's or 70's smoke myself cause I wasn't there and handful of landraces I've grown in the last few years doesn't make me the expert on the subject. My Mexican bud is in curing now, but I made some hash and will let you know what it does. This pheno has slightly pissy lollipop lemongrass smell and seems much better than the one I grew earlier this season which produced nice upbeat high but just wasn't very potent. This is one of the problems with landraces actually, different phenos will vary a lot in THC, THCV and CBD production. Long flowering time is another myth, depending on the pheno they can finish very quickly or can take ages, you need to grow a lot to pick the best suited phenos for your climate.

My Mexican:



:Namaste:
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
I've heard from reliable sources the Ghost was an F1 from the original OG Kush breeding, and with it came the F1 hybrid vigour. Being a Paki Kush x Thai lemon crossed to a cutting of Chemdog supposedly. With all that said they can't ascertain whether OG stands for Ocean Grown as quoted by none other than Harold (Putz) OR.. if it came from the infamous Cypress Hill in their song K.U.S.H (I may have the wrong song) referencing Original Gangster when saying OG KUSH. I've never had it in my garden I know people with it and I've seen it at different stages. Awesome plant... I would take a cut but I just don't have room right now. My mate that has it wants me to Tissue culture it for him. Which I will do and in the process make a culture for myself also. I'm sitting on about 1100 Tissue cultures currently. So you could call me somewhat of a collector.

On the topic of Pollen there are some old school tricks that will do wonder for you. The first of these is rice. Depending on the size of the jar. It sounds silly but it works. The other is expanded polystyrene pellets. Both absorb water over time and if sealed correctly they both work sufficiently. I have pollen 4 years old that still worked so I'm not sure on the shelf life as I've never collected pollen that I keep longer than that. When I do I'll be sure to let you know mate ;)

I'm so anti GMO I almost made my name Nonsanto on here though my grow buddies have always called me Growlow so here we are. The genetics company I know up here is in the works with an ex Monsanto geneticist. They are working on making cuts that die after there growth cycle.. so that they cannot not be put into veg again or cuts taken from it die like a time bomb went off. It has led me to a crossroad where I have to cut ties. I can't be associated on someone who is so greedy they are ready to go to the darkside... My avatar is for kicks I'm a Jedi at heart!
I pollinated this season actually a strain I have called Ultra Dog, I made F2 seeds to grow for the next couple of years and eventually find suitable penos to come up with F3. I'm storing pollen in a fridge in a small metal box filled with rice taped from all sides. Hopefully it will be still viable next season.
 
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