Landrace Genetics 101

I dont believe the current corporate system of so called "free market" is going to produce quality sativa, its much too easy and fast to create a fast maturing self flowering indica with generic stone. Imagine what kind of weed you would buy at WalMart....
Recent events have produced opportunities for custom growers in southern latitude states like Oklahoma (or Arkansas, New Mexico) to produce small amounts of outdoor grown landrace "recreations" that will never be exactly the same as the originals but maybe...as good or on occasion even better.? Optimistic any way..
 
to ImOne:
I Believe in other things myselve too, not in that wat i lay out here. no , we can assume, and occasionaly out of Assumtion, there grows proven fact. I actually see already possible indications of what say. Mostly in when i said inbreeding between two regions would create Basic Material/Wild Landrace: People say by inbreeding all becomes very unstable. Doesent this Sound like the reapearing of something like :Basic wild Landrdrace Material? Like something quiet diffrent Comes out of it. the Gap between northern and southern Thai wasent briged/clustered, no it dissolved/filled..
Not to Sound stupid. I mean crossing south. Thai x North. Thai, this(F1) i cross to noth. Thai, this (F2) i cross to south. Thai and .and .and .. zigzag inbreeding. Still some Kind of inbreeding after multiple Generations.
Also, if the one People say ONLY Landrace are good, but some say they where dissapointed of it , it doesent seem that easy. So i just hear around with open ears and soonly the others say: ONLY strong Outcrossing creates our daily Foodhybrids, they grow at leas one third bigger(same like in Cannabis). But hold on.. they are all are much less resistent. I then didnt know better . So i just thought what if the truth lies somehow in the middle... that would explain why much Thaiweeds and co. high ranges from normal Insane. This is a slight Indication too, the rapid rise in potency of some rare Thai examples. . .wich Looks same like the rapid rise in strong Outcrosses.
thank you for the info on this Preservation -Projects you said. Could you provideus with a link?

And here i made some Illustration, of what ive told in my last four Posts:
 

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Weaselcracker said:
Ok I have a little more time to answer this.
Basically my opinion of that Thai Stick strain hasn’t changed since I posted about it. It just seems like a low grade Thai ditchweed. Ace dropped the strain and I’m sure they wouldn’t have done that if they hadn’t come to the same conclusion.

As I’m sure I’ve blathered about before on this thread I spent a few years in Thailand and a lot of the weed there was weak. Occasionally you’d get some that was a mile above the rest. But to me Thai weed seemed like a pretty homogenous strain. There wasn’t all the variety you see in our lives now. It was all Thai and the same basic type of high. Just some was stronger than the rest. It’s still my favourite type of high.


I think whoever in Thailand originally sold the ‘Thai Stick’ seeds as ‘the stuff we used to make the sticks from’ - wasn’t lying. It’s reasonably typical Thai weed. They just must not have put any effort into selecting the best stuff.


Here are pics of a couple Thai Stick x G. Tiger crosses I harvested fairly recently.

I grew out three of these crosses in total and they were all interesting plants. Hard to control the height though and they took about 18 weeks to finish. The Thai Stick genetics really watered down the strength of the GT. Smoked up the first one. Busy curing the last two. (I almost forgot about that first GTx till now. I guess because I smoked it all, lol)

GTx2. The most Thai, or Thai Stick leaning pheno. Long pointy skinny buds.
GTx2

GTx2


GTx2

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GTx2

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GTx2

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GTx3. More of the GT in this one. Very sticky with smaller rounder buds. Looks like bit of a mess because she wanted to be twelve feet tall and I kept mangling her to keep her around six.

GTx3

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GTx3

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GTx3

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GTx3

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Re the brown bud thing I’ll seize the chance to mention that. Not that you asked :) ha ha but I saw it in your quote and can’t resist updating.
Someone figured out that you can ferment the bud by vacuum sealing it moist and keeping it warm. There’s a thread here that SweetSue started.

Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

Basically everything you need to know is in the first post of the thread. Even that’s probably more info than you need. Just vac seal it when it’s still moist, stick it somewhere warm for a while, and it will give a nice fermented cure.

:passitleft:
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BEAUTY!
You can see the love in those plants.
 
Romano...i only suggest that we may see a growth in these preservation breeders based on the people i have met here on 420...i think your thai beeeding project sounds like a good idea. Remember though in breeding or close line breeding requires a strong phenotype with no genetic weaknesses.
Waht you describe actually sounds like a close outcross, and hoping the strains have a common ancestor. Assuming that is risky since you have no idea what that ancestor smoked like???
 
Yes imone
Thank you for chatting about that thema.
it is just assumtion, since i have no Reference. since i have yet to see a plant that someone can say 100 Prozent for shure : this is 100 Prozent landrace. But people actually mostly agree that left alone wild Landraces are the most stable Thing ever. So it is a assumption with an possible Indiz. And once i would be about to aprove that Idea, (Stability of my created Inbreed-Genes is the same like Stability ofeventual wild ones) it would become a Possibility.
Actually we would have to call many of our examples of Landraces IBL`s, but everyone calls them landraces thats why i also do. Landrace means it is basically untouched by man.
Would be fascinating to see one Exemplar that can be proofen to be unaltered. Did actually Literatur apear to Landraces of other plants? There is a totally same Thema going on about Food-Hybrids versus older Food Plants. Now they just start crossing the new Hybrids with the oldest Genes they can find, probably just create a simple Hybrid out of it and thats it. i dont think that is very intresting. probably a tiny bit, but may lead to nowhere.
These modern Breeders mostly only teach what we can do with our Hand. CAUSE they often calculate/predict what could emerge out of Genes they are holding right now. Im so much more intrested in what might be out there. And i think we should something like SEE what happend there only by Nature, and what may has happend trough human Hands in earlyer Stages.
It is the first time in hitory that we accept that with to strong mixup of genes we are coming into a Misery. I think we Need more Breedingtechniks. and in Cannabis we couple of Canna-Trip Experienced Freaks have a strong clue that there was a better time before (time of IBL`s), so we have some Indiz that worldwide crosses are bader. So in the first time in History we are dislead, but we are Aware of our Situation . So what more Theories are out there? Do you have some..
 
My contacts say there are, but who am i to know? I wouldnt recognize a landrace from a modern hybrid. Even with that knowledge persons can be fooled since a landrace phenotype can emerge as a 'cropout' from generations of modern breeding. I would think breeding landrace to landrace would provide a stable platform and certainly someone needs to preserve as much of this genetic material as possible. In the end though, if it doesnt do something unique the variety will die out.
My history and back ground is in livestock. Certain breeds of cattle do certain things well. Texas longhorn cattle are the closest thing we have to a landrace breed. They are actually feral cattle but reverted to a primitive form that does well in hostile and forbidding conditions. They dont produce marbled meat, or much milk but can survive with little attention and in conditions that herds of angus or herford cattle could not. Keeping strains of landrace marijuana pure is a noble goal but strains that have a certain high or a genetic resilience are more likely to be chosen for continued cultivation.
I remember quite distinctly the high from Columbian Red, for instance from my teen years in the 70s. I would love to reproduce that. If i can find a strain that does that, or better a couple of strains that do, i would like to cross them to reach a stable hybrid.
In the end strains that do certain things in a unique way...will be chosen for the future.
 
I'mOne said:
In the end though, if it doesnt do something unique the variety will die out.
My history and back ground is in livestock. Certain breeds of cattle do certain things well.
Click to expand...

Don't think cattle - think dogs. All the little SOBs eat, bark and sh!t, lol - but there are hundreds of different breeds (and crosses of same) out there, thanks to everybody and their brother having their own idea of what's "best."

There are few "landraces" left. The Irish wolfhound - mighty cú faoi, the reason there are no more wolves in Ireland - nearly vanished into the mists of time. The breed was preserved, and now they are still present. But perhaps not exactly the same as cú faoi, eh?

I'mOne said:
Texas longhorn cattle are the closest thing we have to a landrace breed.
Click to expand...

...but certainly not aurochs (which hasn't been seen on this plane since 1627).

Or maybe cattle is not a bad "frame of mind," here. I have heard Pineywoods described as a landrace breed. Although historically non-native, they adapted to their environment through natural selection. And I don't think there are many left.
 
to imone: very intresting things you say about cattles. Can you help me: what did you mean with "they are actually feral cattle but reverted"? how could they be reverted if they already was wild? was they now wilder or less wild than before? thanks, sounds amazing, if they was reverted, probably i will read a bit

and to tort... did you mean the:the reinforcment of the cú faoi competed with the wild wolfhound and made the last ones disapear? Thanks, if so . for shure we probably shouldnt just implant anything touched by man into nature just like that. I also wouldnt. But the recreation of wild Races is still intresting and could be done separatly.
 
Texas Longhorns were cattle that descended from the domestics brought by the spanish and english but evolved into a different breed that could survive in the wild.
I used cattle dor an example because mj is not a pet, its a useful herb and will be propagated for certain uses. Nigerian sunshine is known as a ptsd strain, northern lights for insomnia, durban as a wake me up....etc
 
I think we need to be aware of the dangers of domestication...that is allowing marijuana to become a"hothouse flower" that cannot survive outside of domestication. The dna creep from industrial hemp is a concern as well. If corporate america has its way and they seize control of the supply, renegade and preservation breeders will be looked at as a problem. I plan to buy landrace seeds while i can and they are relatively inexpensive.
 
conradino23 I saw your smoke report on the m2 strain. I was looking at that close as it was recommended by another. If you say it is crossed with indica I will not get it.

That Nanan Bouclou really ripped me up the last time I smoked. 3 hits and I was frying. Very intense stuff. Takes me back to LSD days a bit. hehe The closest I have now as far as trip weed. It has a indica structure and very strong odor and taste but a clean soaring high. The taste is some of the best I have had. If you like fruity tastes you will love it. I read the indica looking pheno is Haitian but red stems are New Guinea. Mine has both so not sure what I have. It fries me like a egg on a skillet though.

The Swami Guerrero is so pleasant a high. I think it is actually a Lebanese hash plant that was grown in Guerrero. I can sleep pretty soon after smoking it. Taste is kind of garlic as they say, not sure exactly but it is distinctive.
 
The pistils are much more orange than the flash lets on. 14 weeks 11/13 from seed fed Maxibloom at 1 tsp per gallon for the full grow. I pooch screwed the pH for about 6 weeks early on and she still turned out frosty.

These are just the 4 tops, everything below the supercrop knuckles still needs more time
20181128_084851.jpg

20181128_084851.jpg

Columbian Red Point x Unknown Swami genetics.
 
Purple Zacatecas, eh? Must have been stored in the freezer a long time :)
 
conradino23 said:
Purple Zacatecas, eh? Must have been stored in the freezer a long time :)
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I have never seen anyone else growing Zac Purple myself. Lots of people sell it as Big Sur Holy Weed, a derisive of Zacatecas Purple, but to date what was sold as BSHW has always turned out to be some dubious line, or more commonly a strain of SAGE, a later indica cross with BSHW which is more common. The name SAGE was dubbed locally in the coastal Santa Lucia Mountains where it was bred as being the Sativa Afghani Genetic Equilibrium. Sage is commonly mis-quoted as being a cross of Haze and Afghani, but it is definitely not a Haze cross. Zac Purple was in Big Sur in the 1960s long before Haze was bred, if Haze was bred in California at all. Big Sur Holy was more of a joke name locally. The name was later penned by Jerry Kamstra in the book, Weed published in 1972/3. Lots of stories about who brought Zac Purple to Big Sur, and they are mostly stories. Zac Purple was grown in the Big Sur area for about a decade though, in small plots as seeded standard weed. It was just called Big Sur Purple in the later 1970s and in the early 1980s it was grown as sinsemilla. Then it was displaced locally by SAGE and indica hybrids.
 
One thing to note about the latest overbred OG-whatever strains vs landraces like Lebanese. Many strains are related to OG Kush.

Compare that to a Lebanese landrace which has nothing closely related to it. Seemingly Lebanese has not been used in any other strains tested by Phylos. Obviously the market is crazy for OG crosses and not Lebanese.
 

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