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leaf color during flowering cycle (also budding site "pods" and pH management)

snack420

Well-Known Member
Hi! I'm a little over a month into flowering with my first grow, a single plant, and have a few questions for the community. First, let me share the info mentioned in the FAQ for requesting support.

What Strain is it? Blue Dream
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid: Hybrid, Sativa Dominant
How Many Plants? 1 (tried to germinate 2, but only one popped)
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? Flowering
If in Flowering Stage... How Long? 5 weeks
Indoor or Outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil-less mix, coco coir (used a buffered coco called Slacker)
What Size Pot? 16qt (4g)
Size (Wattage) of Light? 600W HPS x 1
Is it Air Cooled? Yes
Temperature of Tent? 60 - 82 F
RH of Tent? 39 - 56%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 5.8-6.1
Any Pests? None currently. I had an issue with fungus gnats, but it seems resolved. Haven't seen one in weeks.
How Often are you Watering? 3-4 times weekly
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? General Hydroponic FloraDuo Expert Drain to Waste plan, 1/2 strength (nutrients are from FloraDuo A&B, CALiMAGic, LiquidKoolBloom, Floralicious Plus)
Size or Square Footage of Room? 4' wide x 4' deep x 6' high

Here are a couple of photos.





My first question is about the leaf color. I've noticed in the last couple of weeks that the leaves seem to be a lighter shade of green than when they were in the veg state. Is this normal? I didn't see it mentioned in what I've read so far. The perceived color of the plant itself is definitely altered when I changed from the (blueish) MH light to the (orangy) HPS light, but when I cut a couple of lower leaves (still green) and looked at them under whiteish light and they are still definitely lighter than when in veg. I just don't know if this is normal or indicative of some sort of problem.

Second question is that when I was looking closely at the budding sites, especially at the ones near the bottom of the plant, I noticed what looked light little seed pods. I believe my plant is definitely a female, but are those really seed pods or something else? There is no way I can think that this plant ever came in contact with male pollen, but I have read that a plant can "turn hermie" if stressed and I just want to know if that's what might be happening? Here's a picture of what I'm referring to...



Finally, a question about the feeding solution and pH. This question isn't specifically about flowering, but it is regarding pH management, which I understand is quite important. I noticed that after mixing up my water and nutrients and leaving it open (and somewhat aerated in a bucket) the pH will rise over time. So, when I check the pH a few days later, it might've gone up from 6.0 to 6.3. Is this expected and what causes that? I assume I should just add a bit more pH down to get it back to 6.0 (or whatever the target is)?

Thanks in advance for any help!

:peace: :Namaste: :volcano-smiley:
 
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PeytonManning

New Member
As the plant gets closer to harvest, it will change colors because it's using up its natural resources. Pretty normal so don't stress over it. Have you been adding cal/mag to it? I know coco is supposed to be lacking in that respect.

That could just be a false seed pod. I would check the plant very closely for nanners. Stress during flower can cause it to hermi, so look for pollen sacks. You can always pull one of the pods and see if anything is in it.

PH is important as you already know. You can adjust it accordingly each time, but if it is within your pH range I wouldn't worry. a little drift is good for them, helps absorb all the nutrients. So pH it to the lowest you can for your medium, and let it drift within its range.
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
As the plant gets closer to harvest, it will change colors because it's using up its natural resources. Pretty normal so don't stress over it. Have you been adding cal/mag to it? I know coco is supposed to be lacking in that respect.

That could just be a false seed pod. I would check the plant very closely for nanners. Stress during flower can cause it to hermi, so look for pollen sacks. You can always pull one of the pods and see if anything is in it.

PH is important as you already know. You can adjust it accordingly each time, but if it is within your pH range I wouldn't worry. a little drift is good for them, helps absorb all the nutrients. So pH it to the lowest you can for your medium, and let it drift within its range.

Thanks for the feedback Peyton. I won't stress over the changing colors of the leaves and it's nice to know this is normal. I have been adding Cal/Mag regularly since I started feeding with nutrients early in the veg cycle.

Also, good to know that a little pH drift is alright and beneficial for absorption over time. I won't worry about that either and will just keep an eye on the pH levels over time. In the last couple of weeks I've started keeping track of this more closely.

I'll have to look into the whole nanners thing and read about hermies and inspect the sacks on the plant. Whatever is going on, I hope it's not something that will significantly impact the potency of the buds!
 

PeytonManning

New Member
You're welcome. It might not impact the potency per say, but the plant will stop trying to make huge buds and put all its energy into seed production. You'll get some seeds and still have some smoke, just not that sweet sensemilla that we all strive for. So just do the nanner search and remember, any damage done can't be changed, so don't stress.
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
OK, I'm going to search for the nanners tomorrow and inspect the pods more closely too. If they appear to be pollen sacs, should I try to remove them all? If this is (becoming) a hermie from stress, I don't understand why, because the environment has been very stable in terms of light, air, and water (+feed), really throughout the entire grow. There was a time when I was getting things setup and the temps were a little erratic during veg, so maybe that was damaging?

Anyway, I'll post back what I find after I do a more extensive check tomorrow.
 

PeytonManning

New Member
Usually you'd want to find the nanners immediately so they do no further damage. Even if veg is a little erratic, it's usually not enough to hermi them, but I could be wrong. I do a lot of harsh training to my plants in veg, crazy temps, light leaks the whole nine yards and never had a problem yet
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
So, these are what I'm seeing, especially in the smaller buds toward the bottom of the plant, but even in some toward the middle and top. Should these all be clipped? I'm not really sure if these are normal looking female buds or some sort of hermie situation. What do you think?



 

snack420

Well-Known Member
OK, so I looked a little closer at the plant and read a bunch about hermies and nanners. First off, I don't see any small yellow banana looking things in or around the buds, or anywhere for that matter. I also looked at some pictures of male plants, and a few hermies, and none of the pictures seemed to match what I'm seeing. That said, it's a little hard to tell because there is definitely a lack of highly detailed photos of what I'm trying to describe.

Also, the pods I'm seeing are actually part of the buds themselves and the hermie and male pollen sacs that I've seen in other pictures always seem to be at the node or amongst a bunch of male pollen sacs, but not mixed in with the female buds themselves as I'm seeing with my plant.

I guess overall, I'm still confused by what appear to be seed pods in the lower buds on my plant - specifically in the buds that are not getting as much direct light because they are shielded by the buds and leaves closer to the light. Are these really developing seeds or is this a normal part of bud development I wonder? If they are developing seeds, then I'm trying to figure out how they got pollenated, because I don't see a source of pollen anywhere.

I did snip some of the small buds with those seed pods and cracked a couple open. There appeared to be a soft yellowish ovular structure inside which I could imagine is the beginnings of a seed, but I'm really not sure.

In some bud I got from a friend, I looked closely at the buds and also see pod-like things, but when they are crushed between my fingers, there is just bud dust inside. They definitely are not seeds. I wonder if what I'm seeing on my plant is just destined to develop into the same thing or whether these are actual seeds forming, which will be disappointing because I understand seed creation takes a lot of volume and energy away from bud development.

If anyone can shed further light on this, that would be awesome. In the meantime, I think my plan is to just carry on and not change things. The strain I'm growing (blue dream) is expected to have an 11 week flower cycle (approximately) and I'm just starting week 6 now, so they are not even close to harvest time. I'm very reluctant to harvest early without knowing for sure what those pod like sacs are in the lower buds.
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
Here is a relatively decent photo, considering that this is just a phone camera and not great at closeups. One can make out the pods I'm seeing in the bud itself. Are those seed pods or just part of normal bud development and won't become seeds? Also, is that horizontal elongated thing toward the top of the bud a nanner? Darn, I think they may actually be seed formations after all. :-( I suppose altering the light cycle by an hour recently might have stressed it out. Ugh!



Thanks so much for any further help understanding this!

:thanks:
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
Well, after a bunch more research I believe my plant did hermie :-( I've noticed that it hasn't been growing any taller or bigger so I suspect its been putting all its energy into seed production. This sucks, but as you said Peyton, nothing I can do to change it now, so might as well just accept it. What I am doing though is snipping off the small lower buds that have the majority of the seeds forming. I don't know if this will help, but I'm hoping that by removing those, the plant will start redirecting some of its energy back to bud production. I guess time will tell.
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
Ok, man. So you got seeds and that means your female has hermied on you. You've been growing from S1 seed, am I right? If you have, that's pretty common.
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
Ok, man. So you got seeds and that means your female has hermied on you. You've been growing from S1 seed, am I right? If you have, that's pretty common.

Oh, this is interesting! I got the seed from one of the reputable seed banks, and it's a blue dream feminized seed, but I really don't know anything else about it. I've seen the term F1 mentioned, but not S1. What does that mean?

For my next try, which seeds are best to get to prevent a hermie from coming up? I'd like a buy a few different strains but I only have space for around 4 plants, so feminized seeds sound appealing, at least in theory, because I feel like then I won't want to remove one that might be a male - but a hermie isn't great either I suppose.

A guy I knew a while back who was a very experienced grower advised against getting feminized seeds because he said the genetics are not as pure, but I didn't really understand that at the time and everyone else was saying it's much easier if you get feminized seeds. Are feminized more likely to hermie?

Thanks for the help!
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
Ok, I'll break it down fr ya. Feminized seeds are created by reversing female flowers to form male pods. Usually done with a good quality clone. This plant will be technically pollinating herself. Sometimes two clones are used and only one gets pollinated. This seed is called S1 as in self 1. Blue Dream is a clone-only variety, so yo cannot produce F1 seeds, but only F2 as S1, because that's what it is basically and it has some potential to herming, but mostly if a given strain has had these tendencies beforehand. Trainwreck is famous for that for example due to Thai genes. If it's not S1 it's not probably even close to original Blue Dream :)

Hope that helps :Hookah:
 

snack420

Well-Known Member
Ok, I'll break it down fr ya. Feminized seeds are created by reversing female flowers to form male pods. Usually done with a good quality clone. This plant will be technically pollinating herself. Sometimes two clones are used and only one gets pollinated. This seed is called S1 as in self 1. Blue Dream is a clone-only variety, so yo cannot produce F1 seeds, but only F2 as S1, because that's what it is basically and it has some potential to herming, but mostly if a given strain has had these tendencies beforehand. Trainwreck is famous for that for example due to Thai genes. If it's not S1 it's not probably even close to original Blue Dream :)

Hope that helps :Hookah:

Hey conradino23, thanks for that info! (I've been away for a while but just getting back) It sounds like to prevent hermies it's better overall to use non-fem seeds. Would you agree with that or are there certain strains that will still have a good chance of being pure female even when using fem seeds? For my next grow I'd really like to get a couple of great sativa-dominant hybrids, but minimize the chance of them going hermie (of course). I realize one technique to check for gender is to take clones during veg and flower those clones in a separate area thereby determining the sex of the individual parent plants. However, in my case, I really don't have the setup for a separate veg and flower area so fem seeds are very appealing for me.

Are there certain fem seed strains that are less likely to turn into hermie plants? :thanks:
 
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