420 Magazine Background

Leaves turned white after transplant

Filter52

New Member
Hi

I just transplanted different strains that are 4 weeks old and were previously on very low amount of sun for whole 4 weeks, also indoors. I`we transplanted em to place where plants get sun for whole day long now. Problem is that about 5 days after transplant lower leaves started to discolor yellow, white patches started to show, that are silky on touch and completely white, no veins visible. Some lower (1st) leaves are now completely white (dead). All this happened really quick, in few days. New growing does not seem to be affected yet. Ph of soil is 6.4-6.8 and soil differs. With differs i mean that somewhere i had soil for years and just added some fertilizer every spring or autumn and some places have "fresh" bought soil mixed with sand. First i was thinking its some kind of deficiency. But on different soil, different strains that are planted miles apart? I dunno must be one in a million shot that same symptoms occur. Also one soil was added garden lime this year and same problems or symptoms.
I watered plants with mile NPK including micronutrients like Mg yesterday.
Also bought foliar Mg today to put on leaves along with some NPK that includes micronutrients and some bioactivator for the roots and should also make plant more disease resistant. Says on the box it should be used after transplanting. Will i do any harm when i spray Mg on leaf even tho plant might not have any deficiency but is only in shock after transplant and excessive sun its getting now?
Anyway symptoms are that bottom leaves on 5 weeks old plants are coloring completely white. And these white spots do not start on edges but inside the leaf. Also leafs are coloring yellow at first following these white silky alike spots.
I m going to check on plants later on do some pics to post here and i intend to spray Mg on leaves.
Or should i wait with Mg and any other nutrients for now ? in case plants are in heat/sun shock after transplant. Must mention that nights are still cold. For few days after transplant night temps were going down to about 5 celsius. Not so cold anymore tho.
I still lean toward the shock thing regarding that plants suddenly got so much more sun than before.
Also must mention that i placed plants bit deeper into soil than usual cuz the stems were bit long.
Any ideas or experience with specific problem?

any help appreciated
 

Retired One

420 Member
First, Filter, let me welcome you to 420, you have come to the right place for help. The best (only) way to diagnose health issues with your plants is to provide pictures. Have you searched all the way through 420 Magazine ®? I hopped over there and found several potential answers to your problem, the most likely answer seems to be an Iron def, but without pictures to compare with, it's impossible to be sure. Search through the link slowly and carefully, since you know what they look like. Hopefully you will find an answer to this problem there. Good luck!
 

Filter52

New Member
Ok i m back with some photos. Situation did not get much worse from yesterday.


IMG_3329.jpg


This is still in early stages, leaves tend to get all white.
Must mention that any black tiny dots on pics are actually dirt cuz i got hands dirty, also i put some bio insecticide , some natural made stuff on my hands to try prevent any disease spreading among plants in case of parasites. So hands were bit sticky.


IMG_3331.jpg


Gets completely white as you can see. This is 1 week after transplant. This soil was treated with just a little garden lime this year.
Each pic here is from different location and each soil has different history and years in usage. Here the soil has been used for many years and fertilizer was added every year.



IMG_33341.jpg


First year used soil here, mixed with some sand. Normal soil for flowers with ph 6.5 when measured last. On the bag said ph 5.5 -6.5 tho.
And the plant does not seem to be yet that affected with white color parts.
But must mention that this one got less sun last week after transplant than the above two.



IMG_33371.jpg


The circled dot actually is not dirt. But this is a really tiny thing as leaf has about 1.5 cm. I also noticed white dandruff alike tiny white spots on top of leaf and below. Actually it looks like thc does. Anyway i have noticed some tiny animal like this dot there. Not many, just a few on some plants. But i guess there is lots of tiny animals in the woods anyway. On right side of circle again the white burn.


IMG_3340.jpg



IMG_3342.jpg


This is back side of the above right side leaf.





IMG_3343.jpg


As seen here the left leaf is wrinkled upwards greatly. The circled white stuff is 1st leaf on plant and already got completely white and died. Fells like silk on touch.





IMG_33461.jpg


This one is in a big 80 l jar. Also first year used soil. Bottom leaves again at its end. Left side started with yellow dots, on the right side white already present.




IMG_3352.jpg


This one is specially weird. I already transplanted this one, but than moved it to another location the next day. And transplanted again. It was a bit weak to start with, but got the purple color and also strange sick leaves after. Is not getting white colored yet.
Dont believe it was over watered, tho it might look so. Top youngest leaves look strangely deformed. But this one might got some roots hurt on 2nd transplant, cuz leaves looked like in need for water in about 10 min after pulling it out. Actually this is the same strain as the 1st pic.




IMG_3355.jpg


This one lies beside the above one. Different strain tho. On the right side you can see small holes in leaves. Not made from rain as it was sunny all days.




Untitled-112.jpg


This is the dandruff alike tiny white dust thingy i was talking about earlier.
I`we chosen this leaf cuz it has alot of this "dust" thingy on compared to other ones.




DSC001112.jpg


This is where batteries went dead and had to use cell phone camera.
Looks like early stage on some of the other further gone plants. Its how all those dead white leaves started to discolor. Also plant is in a bit more shady position atm. Surrounding bushes not cut down yet.



This is it. Any suggestions on what i m dealing here? Is it drastic environment change with transplanting it to much higher altitude, plants get so much more sun now and they were not slowly adjusted to the outside world.




Nutrients thing? But have in mind the soil history differs on almost every place. I m pretty sure that its not below ph 6 and not above 6.8. Might differ a bit depending on soil moisture. But just like 0.2 ph.

By this chart here no nutrients should be locked out looing at ph of soil.
420 Magazine ®



Think its some parasite? I`we noticed plants going like this 2 days after transplant. Before that their color looked normal. No spots or anything alike.
Young healthy plants, tho they were pretty fragile looking cuz four weeks they were sitting on a window shelf, indoor. But i did notice some possible animals, mostly on bottom side. But those things were microscopic, one was maybe 0,5 at most. Mostly smaller tho, like 0,1mm. Might even be dirt form transplanting. But that white dandruff stuff is present on almost every plant. Noticed it on other plants too.



thats all i can think off so far


thnx for all he help till now
 

Retired One

420 Member
420 Magazine ®

Check this out, then repost the pics. All pics must be uploaded through the site. It's quite easy. As soon as those pics come up, I'll take a close look and if I can't figure out the problem, I'll find someone who can.
 

Filter52

New Member
Looking at the link with diseases you gave me it could be copper deficiency that looks pretty much as my plants(also copper is suppose to be locked out at soil ph 6.5 and over.
Might be spider mites, also looks like thrip lava. One of my plants with holes in leaves looks like damage from caterpillars. Heat stress pics also look similar to my plants. Just that some of mine are more white colored.
I dunno but i m leaning to parasites or heat stress, possibly copper def. But actually i got no clue what it might be. Never had any disease or pest problems till now.

Would it be wrong to do preventive insecticide treatment with some bio-natural made stuff ? Can such young plants even take this?

Should i add some mild NPK with micronutrients?

Or should i wait few days and see if illness progresses. Sun is not so strong these days, so if heat stress was the problem it should recover slowly right? or at least not progress any more?


btw
plants did get stronger in last week altho something is wrong.


I found this pic that is in stress cuz of ph fluctuation White spots look a bit like on my plants. Do minor changes in ph also do that? for example if i watered with ph 6.8 first time and in few days with ph 6.3, would that also consider as ph fluctuation stress?

13023.jpg



The next one shows heat stress symptoms , somehow similar to mine plants , atleast that white part, but dunno
heat-stress-rd.jpg
 

Retired One

420 Member
you do have spidermites/thrips...neem oil treatment is required.

copper/iron difficiency also evident

couple quick questions here:

1-what type of light were they germed under...what wattage?
2-how much of an altitude change
3-what type of soil are you using to ammend the soil you have planted in?

plants should have been hardened off before moving them into full sun, however, I don't think this is the root cause of your problem. Need to know what the soil ph is exactly, as well as the ph of the rainwater in your area. This appears to be severe lock-out, the red in the stalk also indicates a possible mg/sulphur def.

a .5 ph fluctuation is sort of borderline with your water...they do like it to be consistent. My gut feeling is you ph is not what you think it is, and while the ph chart you referenced is an excellent guidline, some strains are more sensitve to ph fluctuations than others, and since this is a bagseed grow, we're not real sure of the genetics.

Now having said all of that, the elevation/direct sun change all at one time, may have literally shocked the plants to death. If the elevation changed much more than 1500 ft, the change in sunlight intesity may have been to much for them.

Just my opinion here, start over. Get an absolute grip on the ph issue and properly germ/harden off the plants. This looks like one of the most severe cases of lockout I have ever seen...many issues are presenting themselves and they are doing it all at once.

get me answers to the three questions I posted and we will go from there.
 

Filter52

New Member
1. Seeds were not germinated under any light. I soaked them in destiled water for 8 hours than put em on a plate and some paper towels that were both washed with boiled water. Strains were Big bud, hawaiian x skunk and full moon all bought at nirvana-shop.com. Most seeds germinated in 12-24 hours.
2. Altitude changed for about 600m . They re somewhere on 1000m now.
3. For new places i used normal packed soil for flowers with ph 5.5-6.5. When i measured it was 6.5. I also mixed it with some sand. But some places have soil that is mainly brought there from gardens year by year. Some fertilizer is applied every spring or autumn. History of soil really differs form place to place.

No idea what ph of rain is tho. Must measure next time it rains. I only bought devices to measure soil and water ph this year. But to be sure that soil ph meter is working properly i can mix that soil with some destilled water than get rid of the dirt and measure ph.

Neem oill for spider mites? no idea what that is. What is it made from , can i mix something alike at home? I got some bio-natural stuff for pests tho.
I m a bit late to start all over. To order and wait for seeds, than germinate and plant again.
Think i got any chance to get rid of pests? Anywa i m gonna go and spray one or two plants with this bio pesticide i got here to see what it does.
 

McBudz

Nug of the Month: Oct 2008
Put the soil in a 5 gallon bucket with holes in the bottom. pass about 1-2 gallons of rain water through it, collect the runoff in a celan container. Measure that runoff and you'll now the pH of the soil.

Looks like you have pests and transplant shock. Possibly root damage in the process. Clones leafs go white like that if they dont root quick enough. Thats the plant living off of its self since it has no roots to feed with. Try foliar feeding and start treating for mites. Azatrol is a good long term solution. Pyrethrum / neem are better in the short term. Both require repeat applications.
 

Filter52

New Member
Thanks for all the help. I ll got get some soil samples now and will spray that bio-pesticide thingy i got. Just on one or two plants to see what happens.
Roots tho were not damaged during transplant. It was the best transplant i made so far. Very clean.
 

Retired One

420 Member
My bad on the bagseed, I made a wrong notation in my notebook...D'OH!!!

You can find neem oil at any hydro shop, and it was brought to my attention yesterday that the Lowes in my town carries it as well.

That's a pretty extreme altitude change and with plants that weren't hardened off the direct light is going to be tough on them.

Root damage may not be visually evident...and even the most careful gardener can damage them without knowing it.

I am starting to believe, after careful thought, that McBudz is right...root damage will mimic nute lockout simply because the roots aren't functioning properly. If everything you say is true, and I'm in no way implying that you are lying, then root damage is a very logical conclusion. I'd really like to know for absolute sure what the ph of the soil/water is, but when ph issues are ruled out, then root problems are what we are left with.
 

Filter52

New Member
heh like not enough troubles, 2 plants were eaten by snail. Traces were seen and it did seem to mind the white stuff. Tho plants will prolly survive, little was left on those 2. Only green healthy parts remained now hehe.

Anyway some plants show quick growth, like the one on 1st pic. But half of them still looked stunned and start to look like the 2nd pic where older leaves get bit purple also new growing leaves along with the upper part of stem.
I will do the ph soil test with water tomorrow but again i measured soil with ground ph tester on 2 locations and ph did rise a bit. On the parts i watered ph was 6.8-7. And the part of same soil that was not watered showed ph 6.5 or 6.6. That was the soil i bought this year. Ph on that part was prolly gone a bit up cuz 1st watering was of ph 6.8. Also sand may have contributed a bit, not sure about that tho.
Ph did not go up much but it did. And closely to neutral or even basic.

What i we also noticed is that almost every single leaf in the woods has that white dandruff stuff on it and all looked pretty healthy.
Theres also less sun past days and some rain in store for next days. So little ones can take a break from all that burning, heh never thought i`d be wishing less sun.

Also sprayed that Plantella bio stuff on most affected plant to see if it kills the plant, pests, neither or both.
I once more inspected all the plants and really did not see any animals below or on top. Tho the plant sprayed had 2 little black patches or dots on top of leaf and would not come off. It looked like fly poop and was not there yesterday. I mentioning this cuz i remember reading something about one kind of pest leaving those black little patches.

Can roots be damaged after transplant? i m mean when they re already in soil, Cuz transplanting really went smooth. I had plants in little plastic drinking cups where you just scissor a bit like 1 mm on top. I did that on every 1.5 cm so half of cup did just peel of. Before that i watered the cup so soil stayed together, also roots were holding it together at same time. Everything stayed in one piece. I did ruin some roots in the past and had no such problems tho.

So if root problem i should add some root stimulator?
Was planning to apply some foliar feeding if not raining. Also i probably should not use spraying for pests and foliar feeding together right?

One more thing, as plants show this many deficiencies, should plants than be foliar feed with npk+miconutrients or gotta apply every single element separate?
But than again if its the roots, should i also foliar feed with that or rather apply some root stimulator?
Or should i add some root stimulator in soil and at same time foilar feed npk+micronutrients?
Mixing things probably isn`t good idea.

P.S.

i was just thinking. before transplant plants were in normal bought flower soil wich ph is not know to me. But probably was somewhere 5.5-6.5. So i watered plants still in cup alot before transplanting with water ph 6.8. Also than watered soil with same water just after transplant. So what i m thinking here is that the ph could rise alsot just with 1st watering than the 2nd right after transplant and soil they were transplanted in could in start have different ph than the one in cups. The soil in cups was also bought but not the same company produced the soil. So there could be significant ph change for the plants, combined with heat stress. Also on the way some root damage occurred and the current state of plants is the result.
Does this make any sense?

One last thing .... with foliar feeding , do i also need to regulate ph for the mix? and is ph 6.5 ok for watering plants outdoors? i guess water ph must not differ much from soils ph. But than again i`we been watering plants with ph 8 for last decade and more, not knowing its actual ph.
 

Filter52

New Member
Ok, some time passed, so let me share some info on whats been goin on with the plants and what was messing em up.
Bout 10 days ago i watered em with some mild npk that had all miconutrients and some root stimulator in it. At that point plants still looked sick but some improvement was shown. Came back in about a week and plants grew big time. No more white leaves, all new leaves are healthy, plants in general look strong and healthy.
Even the one that was all twisted and purple is now completely healthy.Leaves that were sick before still look the same. But those are at very bottom and now represent bout 5% of whole plant. This one , actually had damaged roots so it looked like it needed some nutrients. But this one had a 2nd transplant that did not go so well and i destroyed fair amount of roots taking it out of soil, placing it in a flower pot, transported it and planted one more time on new spot. Yea that one did emulate nutrient problems. But its all fine now, healthy :slide:

Anyway my conclusion is that it was all because of heat stress or stress in general.. Plants were not slowly introduced to new enviroment and it was just their response to all the extra sun, new altitude ....

Tho this plant now had parts of leaves missing and it looks like a snail work but i doubt it cuz ends of "eaten" leaves are dried brownish looking, no snail trail also. I suspect some pests on this one so i applied stuff for that yesterday, just to be safe. But its separated from the others so no worries.

Yea it was all about the stress, things looking well for now (will post a pic or 2 in future)


Thanks for all the instant help and suggestions, very useful page and helpful people standing in the back
 

rach530

New Member
My bad on the bagseed, I made a wrong notation in my notebook...D'OH!!!

That's a pretty extreme altitude change and with plants that weren't hardened off the direct light is going to be tough on them.

Hi, this is my second year growing and i just joined this site so kinda new but im having kinda the same issue where i just moved some of my babies outside to transplant into the ground. For now they are still in their gallon pots and some of of their leaves are turning white and silky to the touch. From what ive read it sounds like shock, but my question is what do you mean when you say "hardened off"? is there a step that you should make to prep them for outside? if so, then how should one go about doing so?
Thanks...
 

Bapple

New Member
Plants which are going to be moved outdoors are hardened off by a gradual process where you leave them out for 4 - 6 hours in indirect sunlight for the first day in late afternoon sun the next, and basically increase the exposure over 4 or 5 days before finally leaving them to the outdoor elements.
 
Top Bottom