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LED grams per watt

doctor green

On Vacation
Dropout-

Why would you forget HPS? I use HPS, I love the heat for winter and they produce more product per square foot

I like LED too I have lots good to say about it

Oh and thanks I laughed out loud at this " i am new generation of master led growers...."
Hahaha me too, I like to picture Borat saying that last "I am new generation of master led grower " quote hahaha Borat or Yoda LOL!
 

uptheholler2

New Member
I have to chime in here on the master grower thing... I have been a farmer of produce sine I was 10 like 49 years now. I have been growing weed for 40 years this year. For the last thirty years I have grown in excess of 30 acres of produce a year, I say excess because on many crops I get at least 2 crops a year. I spend 8 to 12 hours a day seven days a week doing nothing but tending ...caring for... or planning next years crops. But never....ever..... would I consider myself a master grower of anything. I sincerely feel sorry for those folks who think that they have " Mastered" any part of mother natures greatest art form. It's just impossible... I learn every year... from both experienced growers, as well as, from watching and helping new growers as they discover hurdles that I have never seen. I am surrounded by nature on a daily basis. It is absolutely impossible to say that you are a " master" at any thing to do with gardening. I have been encouraged to become a state appointed " Master Gardener" in every state that I have lived in ( Including the one I just moved to 8 weeks ago ) Won't do it because it's not true. But I do believe this... if I am not a master grower.... then no one is. Let me assure you that I am not one! If I was I would be bored to death. But I do know that there is a lot of crap on the internet and there are a lot of Wiki-experts out there. I'm sorry to be so windy. Best of luck in all you grow!
 

Dropout

New Member
I have to chime in here on the master grower thing... I have been a farmer of produce sine I was 10 like 49 years now. I have been growing weed for 40 years this year. For the last thirty years I have grown in excess of 30 acres of produce a year, I say excess because on many crops I get at least 2 crops a year. I spend 8 to 12 hours a day seven days a week doing nothing but tending ...caring for... or planning next years crops. But never....ever..... would I consider myself a master grower of anything. I sincerely feel sorry for those folks who think that they have " Mastered" any part of mother natures greatest art form. It's just impossible... I learn every year... from both experienced growers, as well as, from watching and helping new growers as they discover hurdles that I have never seen. I am surrounded by nature on a daily basis. It is absolutely impossible to say that you are a " master" at any thing to do with gardening. I have been encouraged to become a state appointed " Master Gardener" in every state that I have lived in ( Including the one I just moved to 8 weeks ago ) Won't do it because it's not true. But I do believe this... if I am not a master grower.... then no one is. Let me assure you that I am not one! If I was I would be bored to death. But I do know that there is a lot of crap on the internet and there are a lot of Wiki-experts out there. I'm sorry to be so windy. Best of luck in all you grow!
Sorry I hurt your feelings, I wish I had fields to work with you are very lucky. But all I ment was that I mastered the way to use leds and exposed the true potential of them.... thru my 5 years of testing and experimenting.... I just find it very wrong to say wiki when i talk about my experience... u are right most read and read... but me i just buy the led and learn with them.... so please recognize the difference of my information. i know alot of growers are more skilled and have more experience then me with the plants... i know some other have more knowledge about leds then me... because me i dont read much so i am clueless about alot this my first time on the forum since 2006... but leds i know because of my experience.... i only come on forum to read strain reviews... because i like sativa and where i live mostly indica clones... i dont want to be vegetable feeling like im gonna die i want to be active feeling good.... indica is for hiv positive and sativa is for everyday people... i dont want to smoke indica unless im dying.... but gdp is good... cut i have make u feel relaxed and unstresses you out... does anyone know any good indica like gdp thats not drug like og kush pink kush diamond kush diamond og king kush etc... all these strains make me feel like im dead... i wake up next morning still feeling dead... take away my energy... sativa give me energy.... and make me talk alot loll..... but anyways with 50 years experience i know you can tell me something... u are my master ahah!!!
 

Dropout

New Member
Dropout-

Why would you forget HPS? I use HPS, I love the heat for winter and they produce more product per square foot

I like LED too I have lots good to say about it

Oh and thanks I laughed out loud at this " i am new generation of master led growers...."
hps absolete.... atleast use cmh.... all about full spectrum and they have both hps + mh.... cut 1 week faster like leds because of full spectrum... with no full spectrum u dont get that effect ever...

lolll yeah tryna pitch a joke in there... so i wouldnt bore you to much.... master led grower i am!!!
 

uptheholler2

New Member
Sorry I hurt your feelings, I wish I had fields to work with you are very lucky. But all I ment was that I mastered the way to use leds and exposed the true potential of them.... thru my 5 years of testing and experimenting.... I just find it very wrong to say wiki when i talk about my experience... u are right most read and read... but me i just buy the led and learn with them.... so please recognize the difference of my information. i know alot of growers are more skilled and have more experience then me with the plants... i know some other have more knowledge about leds then me... because me i dont read much so i am clueless about alot this my first time on the forum since 2006... but leds i know because of my experience.... i only come on forum to read strain reviews... because i like sativa and where i live mostly indica clones... i dont want to be vegetable feeling like im gonna die i want to be active feeling good.... indica is for hiv positive and sativa is for everyday people... i dont want to smoke indica unless im dying.... but gdp is good... cut i have make u feel relaxed and unstresses you out... does anyone know any good indica like gdp thats not drug like og kush pink kush diamond kush diamond og king kush etc... all these strains make me feel like im dead... i wake up next morning still feeling dead... take away my energy... sativa give me energy.... and make me talk alot loll..... but anyways with 50 years experience i know you can tell me something... u are my master ahah!!!
What feelings hurt? You didn't personally hurt my feelings at all. I have a lot more life's scar tissue than that. You are simply putting way to much emphasis upon light and light sources with regard to yield. Photosynthesis and the ability for any plant to reach it's genetic potential has much , much more to do with it than just light or wavelengths. I am going to sound like a broken record here, but here I go any how. Within any seed is life's genetic building blocks. There are very few.. if any...true hybrid weed varieties out there. That's why breeders talk about phenotypes that you might see in ant seed they offer, because it is not a true hybrid. If you drive by a corn field every plant looks exactly the same if they are all exposed to all of the variables that effect growth. Weed isn't there yet. And that's what we are speaking about.......Variables. Genetics are just the beginning. You make it sound as if light and light sources are the end all deciding factor in harvests. It simply is not. There are so many variables in any grow that it is a fool's errand to claim that anyone can predict with any amount of certainty what you are going to harvest on any crop. Much less so when you are not starting with a genetic hybrid. That's what stimulated folks to try to feed us with hybrid lines. Other variable are almost endless but the biggest has to do with the timing of your cultural practices, irrigation, the amounts and quality of the water applied, nutrients..again the amount and quality of those that are applied, temperatures and when those temperature occur. Wind and wind speeds and their relative effect upon transpiration and respiration rates and how these are effected by the temperature that I just mentioned. The effects both positive and negative of relative dry spells upon the plant and it's root growth and it's ultimate potency and resin production. I mean the list just goes on and on. Plus then you have to consider the synergistic , interrelationship of all of these factors one upon another. So I hope now you see that it is so much more than just lights or light sources. I have been asked by new growers of tomatoes or melons or any produce crop how much they can expect to yield. I always tell them that for the most part that is up to them and their stewardship of the crop and the involvement of God himself in that crops ultimate success or failure. I have watched as 15 acres or muskmelons that I had babied for months float away under 7 inches of rain in 3 hours. But guess what? If I cannot predict a harvest total when I am dealing with true hybrid genetics...then ......there is absolutely no way to accurately predict what a person can average using simply one light source or another when it comes to a non hybrid crop like weed. Lastly even if you or anyone has grown
a hundred crops with specific seeds source of a non hybrid weed variety all anyone can do is give a rough average. No one can say that absolutely that they will pull down x amount every crop. There are just too many variables especially when it comes to the timing of applications and it's relationship to the entire grow. I wish you well! Best of luck in all you grow!
 

uptheholler2

New Member
Hey Doc! Thanks. Even though I was rambling a little my point is that you can't focus upon any one single input to any grow and predict harvest totals with any degree of certainty. Especially when our starting point in any grow is a genetic grab bag of individual plant traits. Even if you start with clones from the exact same mothers they are not equal. Clones taken from different locations on a plant or different stem diameters are not identical. I have witnessed wildly variable plant results in a single room with clones all from one mother plant. Any how I've taken enough of everyone's time on this subject. I sincerely appreciate your kind words. Best of luck in all you grow!
 

ZARBU

On Vacation
Everyone wants LEDS to be great, Truth is, they need to be used in a way that suits them.

They are not cost effective due to poor coverage and poor penetration.

It is simply the nature of the beast, sure there are work arounds in technology for leds, but they will never be good enough to light a street.


one day we will see led sheets and grow tents made from them, till them use HPS.

What people dont understand is HPS and Halides are only cheap and cost effective because they light our streets and roads.

scale and volume.... this is why plasma will never take off.

Lights are not produced for growing solely, look at the number of HPS bulbs run by city councils and the price today and reflect on that.
 

Buckshot

Member of the Month: Nov 2013 - Nug of the Month: Mar 2013, Dec 2014 - Plant of the Month: Mar 2018
Everyone wants LEDS to be great, Truth is, they need to be used in a way that suits them.

They are not cost effective due to poor coverage and poor penetration.

It is simply the nature of the beast, sure there are work arounds in technology for leds, but they will never be good enough to light a street.


one day we will see led sheets and grow tents made from them, till them use HPS.

What people dont understand is HPS and Halides are only cheap and cost effective because they light our streets and roads.

scale and volume.... this is why plasma will never take off.

Lights are not produced for growing solely, look at the number of HPS bulbs run by city councils and the price today and reflect on that.
Prices are coming down... but there are many considerations.

For instance in a warm environment LED prevails and is much cheaper to run. If you have shaky or over used electrical source LED prevails. If you want denser more fragrant buds LED prevails. And so HPS prevails in a cooler environment with good electrical sources and will yield more.
 

OttawaGreen

Well-Known Member
I disagree. I believe they are cost-effective. My $300 lights produce more you then my H PS 400s did. Plus I don't have to replace the bulbs every two years like I did with the HPS. And I save money on electricity, and have no issues with heat.
Also I don't know about where you are, but they sure do use LEDs or streetlights here in Canada and in other places in the world. They look so much nicer than those yellow HPS streetlights
 

Buckshot

Member of the Month: Nov 2013 - Nug of the Month: Mar 2013, Dec 2014 - Plant of the Month: Mar 2018
hps absolete.... atleast use cmh.... all about full spectrum and they have both hps + mh.... cut 1 week faster like leds because of full spectrum... with no full spectrum u dont get that effect ever...

lolll yeah tryna pitch a joke in there... so i wouldnt bore you to much.... master led grower i am!!!
I think you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar
 

Icemud

Member of the Month: July 2012, July 2014 - Nug of the Month: July 2012
It is simply the nature of the beast, sure there are work arounds in technology for leds, but they will never be good enough to light a street.
Here in southern california at least in my city and many around they already use LED for streetlights, and our Interstate. They actually are very bright and cover extremely well, and also cost much less on yearly maintenance and electricity.
 

Dropout

New Member
What feelings hurt? You didn't personally hurt my feelings at all. I have a lot more life's scar tissue than that. You are simply putting way to much emphasis upon light and light sources with regard to yield. Photosynthesis and the ability for any plant to reach it's genetic potential has much , much more to do with it than just light or wavelengths. I am going to sound like a broken record here, but here I go any how. Within any seed is life's genetic building blocks. There are very few.. if any...true hybrid weed varieties out there. That's why breeders talk about phenotypes that you might see in ant seed they offer, because it is not a true hybrid. If you drive by a corn field every plant looks exactly the same if they are all exposed to all of the variables that effect growth. Weed isn't there yet. And that's what we are speaking about.......Variables. Genetics are just the beginning. You make it sound as if light and light sources are the end all deciding factor in harvests. It simply is not. There are so many variables in any grow that it is a fool's errand to claim that anyone can predict with any amount of certainty what you are going to harvest on any crop. Much less so when you are not starting with a genetic hybrid. That's what stimulated folks to try to feed us with hybrid lines. Other variable are almost endless but the biggest has to do with the timing of your cultural practices, irrigation, the amounts and quality of the water applied, nutrients..again the amount and quality of those that are applied, temperatures and when those temperature occur. Wind and wind speeds and their relative effect upon transpiration and respiration rates and how these are effected by the temperature that I just mentioned. The effects both positive and negative of relative dry spells upon the plant and it's root growth and it's ultimate potency and resin production. I mean the list just goes on and on. Plus then you have to consider the synergistic , interrelationship of all of these factors one upon another. So I hope now you see that it is so much more than just lights or light sources. I have been asked by new growers of tomatoes or melons or any produce crop how much they can expect to yield. I always tell them that for the most part that is up to them and their stewardship of the crop and the involvement of God himself in that crops ultimate success or failure. I have watched as 15 acres or muskmelons that I had babied for months float away under 7 inches of rain in 3 hours. But guess what? If I cannot predict a harvest total when I am dealing with true hybrid genetics...then ......there is absolutely no way to accurately predict what a person can average using simply one light source or another when it comes to a non hybrid crop like weed. Lastly even if you or anyone has grown
a hundred crops with specific seeds source of a non hybrid weed variety all anyone can do is give a rough average. No one can say that absolutely that they will pull down x amount every crop. There are just too many variables especially when it comes to the timing of applications and it's relationship to the entire grow. I wish you well! Best of luck in all you grow!
I know you did not read anything I previously wrote because you are just repeating everything i said in a different with bigger english words... if you actually read you will see i not talk about light... because wattage the lease of my issue... if i have good par i will grow well... and from begining i mention how strain is important serious seeds chronic and devil harvest casey jones is high yielding strains to get those results..... and i am not gonna continue repeat myself so if u want to talk please read what i said first.... before you keep repeating me like a parrot...
 

Dropout

New Member
hey the new generation of "master" led growers gotta get taught a lesson by somebody hahahaha good work mate.
doctor did you read anything i said... because he not teach no one a lesson he only repeat all i said... i think out of anyone you should know i mention 2 strains chronic and casey jones.... did i mention other strains i grow... no.... but growing not about yield for me just something that happened i didnt even know how much yield to expect from these 2 strains... i also did mention between 1.7 and 2.0gpw ofcourse it can vary lol.... uptheholler need to read before talking cause he judging instead of reading first.... for someone with so much experience thats big mistake to jump the guns without reading first.... he would realize everything he said as been answered... other then how i take clones and i will answer that now...
 

Dropout

New Member
Hey Doc! Thanks. Even though I was rambling a little my point is that you can't focus upon any one single input to any grow and predict harvest totals with any degree of certainty. Especially when our starting point in any grow is a genetic grab bag of individual plant traits. Even if you start with clones from the exact same mothers they are not equal. Clones taken from different locations on a plant or different stem diameters are not identical. I have witnessed wildly variable plant results in a single room with clones all from one mother plant. Any how I've taken enough of everyone's time on this subject. I sincerely appreciate your kind words. Best of luck in all you grow!
I am dissappointed in you I think you would be more realistic person but you pass more judgement then knowledge..... anyways.... for clones i know what u mean.... i take clones like this \/
|

been doing this since 2008... where i top the new growth on mom and 2 branch come back... i clip cuttings with two point of growth.... this way i have 2x bud from same clone... when i grow bubblegum long time ago... i took 2 clones like that randomly and i see they both grow like 1 clone each.... so i realize this way reduce plant number and get 2x bud so i always top mom to enough clones with 2 heads... nobody else does this????
 

Dropout

New Member
Everyone wants LEDS to be great, Truth is, they need to be used in a way that suits them.

They are not cost effective due to poor coverage and poor penetration.

It is simply the nature of the beast, sure there are work arounds in technology for leds, but they will never be good enough to light a street.


one day we will see led sheets and grow tents made from them, till them use HPS.

What people dont understand is HPS and Halides are only cheap and cost effective because they light our streets and roads.

scale and volume.... this is why plasma will never take off.

Lights are not produced for growing solely, look at the number of HPS bulbs run by city councils and the price today and reflect on that.
this used to be true.... but no longer is... leds is officially better then hps now... much easier to achieve 1gram per watt with leds then with hps....
 

Dropout

New Member
I will say it for last time very simple.... by most important to less important...

1. strain high yielding like chronic or casey jones
2. even light coverage with multiple leds one single led doesnt maximize
3. bridgelux osram cree leds are best epistar epiled works for scrog but big difference in penetration when no scrog.
4. plant number vs veg time must me optimized more plants good veg time will give better results
5. medium... hydroponic and coco will yield more then soil... dont even think you can get these results in soil...
6. nutrients is more for keeping plant healthy boosters and all is good additive is good but most important is to keep plant healthy and never stunt growth.
7. proper curing... too dry u lose weight... too wet u get fake higher weight..

for 2x4 2x3 2x2 3x3 expect to spend 300$ in chinese led epistar epiled or 400-600$ for cree bridgelux osram...
for 4x4 5x5 expect to spend 1000$ to 1200$ dont go cheap...

in 4x4 space you can harvest 2lbs easy with leds 600-700. true watt ... so it will cover the cost on first harvest... and save on electricity....

PS. If you dont do multiple led setup u will waste your time.... 2x2 space is only time u need only 1 led....
 

uptheholler2

New Member
Hey Dropout! Boy you really seem to take this stuff personally. Chillax a second and listen to yourself. You think I repeated what you said but I in no way parroted your thoughts. You continue to talk about "strains" as if they are true breeding hybrids. They simply are not you need to go to an actual library...not the internet and do some hard studying on the difference. It starts with the genetic stability and ends with the consistency of harvest expectations. You keep falling back on the PAR argument. Why? What gain have LED's made in par over the old time method of dropping cool tubes into the canopy. Sir I must say that you are nothing but a broken record now constantly taking jabs at peoples comments and then saying that " you said that" when they make a point. Listen I can tell that you have a great passion and love for growing weed. For that I commend you and wish you well. But your constant assertion of harvest totals shows me that your experience from a practical standpoint is limited at best. I believe that you could be and may be, a very good grower but your single mindedness on this one issue will limit your abilities in the future. By the way I just purchased a 1200 watt LED panel to begin experimenting with in my new room. I will be comparing this with the HPS/MH 1000 watt units that I always run with. You need to go get actually educated in the basics of plant physiology and botany. Then I would suggest some practical study and experience in the field of horticulture. This needs to be done outside just the world of weed plants and encompass other crops. What you will learn will allow you to understand the difference between what you have been repeating over and over and the absolute undisputable points that I have been trying to put across. In closing, I believe that you have been making your point quite well in English.....fully understandable...just not fully believable in any language....because it starts with the difference between a Hybrid and a Strain! Best of luck in all you grow!
 
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