LED grams per watt

Dropout said:
simple, all about skill levels and technics use in the space you have once u dial it in to maximize production thats what will happen... like growers pulling 1lbs from 2x3 with 400 hps and other grower pulling 8oz from 4x4 600 hps.... dont ever compare growers setup each grower skill level is different... in more details...

its simple plant count vs veg time... its not my fault if he doesnt use his space properly... 15 plants 8oz each = 6-7 weeks of veg but you end up with plants that take 3 times the space as a 3oz plant me i do 16 plants vegged 3-4 weeks... so 8oz plant is way bigger then 3oz plant.... no topping = less yield one big top looks good but many tops weight more... taller the plant = less yield because penetration not as good... not trimiming undergrowth that gets no light = less yield because draining energy that can be focus where buds get more light... tying down each plant into a loose bouquet for better spacing and light penetration... raising shorter plants to match canopy... everything counts and help you yield more... and biggest most important is strain... u can do best setup be best grower have best nutrients etc... but if strain not in top yielding category it will never happen.... i bet if he did same setup with chronic he would get 10-12oz per plant... to compare the way u want to compare grows makes no sense... theres to many differences in way it was grown...and grower skills... hps growers will never achieve what led growers can achieve with the same wattage... he get 4lbs with hps 1800 watt right.... if u just change the lighing to 1800 true watt leds... same setup he would yield 7-8lbs easy by only changing hps watts to led true watts... double the yield same electricity draw bill.... thats why led cost more... its not bullshit its true they really replace hps by 2x.... newer light i have suppose to be able to replace hps by 4x we will see... i will share this grow with yall but big grow 8x8 space.. 880watts only... and i will use my same proven formula and adapt to double the space using only 180watts more because i dont think wattage matters for led lights its more about how much ppfd by 4x4 space that matters and full spectrum.... because i notice with leds even if not much power plant grows nice and big bud anyways... and even better when u overlap lighting... u can achieve stronger par with leds which makes hps absolete... hps used to be the bread and butter.... now leds is the bread and butter but most of you haven't catched up yet... i be using leds since 2009-2010 ufo's and california works since 2011.... i seen the potential early.. ufo for veg california works for flowering... only problem was coverage... led wasnt able to have footprint of hps.... so i understand you cannot use led light hps... better sale california works... and buy many smaller watt leds... then to not overbuy more watt power then i truly need... and to make sure led as a good 2x2 ppfd footprint so i dont over buy leds either and keep price manageable in cost of leds vs amount of watts... i will break it down for you how i arrived to this result... very quick or i be writing a book... i start with 600 watt hps... 4x4 ebb n flow... i veg for 1 week and flower and get 8oz.... hmmm i said ok next time 2 weeks veg.... get 14oz.... hmmm ok... so i start veg in in veg room and it end up 4 weeks veg so i can flip 12/12 right away cause i hate waiting for veg... i get 23oz.... so then i understand i have to veg longer to get more buds from same setup.... everything same only veg time change.... i switch to led california works... i didnt care for wattage i was new to leds didnt pay much attention to details then it said it replace 600 hps so i got that.. i got 12 oz... i think led suxs for yield but damnnnnn buds looking so good and frosty smelling so much stronger and i sucked at curing but led made me think i can cure good because taste is awesome... so i wanted to use leds but need to figure out how to yield more so i notice alot of shade on the sides... so i said maybe if theres no shade i get better yield... and i notice that so i sell california works and buy smaller chinese leds cause now i read more and start understand more... and i place them different... wow what a difference in yield.... 46oz but i use more watts then what solarstorm was... i didnt understand the wattage thing for leds yet... i just wanted to be first to use this technology... but after checking solarstorm details and understanding that the light they sell as 600 hps replacement is really 320 watts draw... i realize leds did very good... 336grams from 320watts is over 1gpw.... so by doubling the wattage to 700watts and also making my canopy more even with even lighting everywhere.....i was able to double my gpw....for 200$ less and 380watts more... mutiple led lights changed the game for me.... 700watts at 1gpw is good... but with leds anyone can do that or very close if you scrog u get that for sure... but plant number veg time and even lighting the canopy with leds makes you a super winner and 1.7 to 2gpw is my new average because leds quality got better.... i think new leds that focus more on par now will get 3-4gpw for people like me who are already at peak of grow developement... and understand leds for growing marijuana... alot as changed since 2011... 5 years later im ready to try this new light that should make my new average even more unbelievable... i dont think it stops here.... but these new lights might bring it to its peak.... im excited to try them because i know ppfd is way better then chinese led im currently using so i can use 4 instead of 5 in larger space because ppfd footprint is for 3x3 with overlerlap... so knowlegeable grow would get 4 for a 6x6 area pro grower will get 4 for 8x8 area.. and the foot missing will be overlap twice to have strong ppfd also...

please understand u cannot compare led to hps grows... leds make hps a thing of the past.... hps no longer have any business in a grow room.... but until u understand you can never just use one led to rip the most benefits and u must always overlap lighting to rip the most benefits and u must stretch the space by 1ft of strong par limit to rip the most benefits and u must top supercrop lst wtv style u like and keep it under 4ft after flowering stretch to rip most benefits... and u must grow 1 plant per sqft to rip the most benefits.... and u must veg but not veg too long to rip the most benefits.... u will never look back at hps.... i hope this helps explain all your concerns.... i am not crazy or liar.... i am new generation of master led growers.... welcome to the new era.... i cannot promise these results with mars light since they dont have full spectrum and par reading is very weak i never bothered to try them.... but i can confirm platinum led would give you those results but led is overpriced....better go on amazon and get apollo or galaxyhydro.... for now... but better wait 1 month or 2 until new lights for 2016 comes out... the few i looked into all look promising.... like most manifacturers understand ppfd and full spectrum is needed for medical plants uv for trichomes deep red to shorten flowering by 1 week.... the knowledge is there so they all make better lights this year.... and it will revolutionize the grow room lighting we use... i think hydroponic stores wont carry hps anymore if they do it will become the cheap alternative.... they will be the cfl's of the new era lots of heat lower production in watt and in general over powered waste of electricity. my mindstate about hps have very much changed... i now look down to it.... but i wasnt only ever fan of the 600 watt cause it was best configured for higher lumens and wattage draw.. i now dont care for it at all... it maximize out at 1.5 gpw a 430hps maximize out at 1.2 gpw so not much difference... 1000watt hps also maximize at 1.5 - 1.6 gpw.... so to say me averaging 1.7gpw to 2.1gpw is unbelievable just tells me you know nothing about leds and how much better they are then hps for growing stuff... remember the first time u probable tried an ufo urself and notice how awesome it was to veg with and how better they grew under it and how much faster they grew then a mh light.... well now flowering is the same it flower alot better seen some big buds just as big as hps but more dense so heavier much more resin production and shortens flowering by 1 week and it gives stronger smell better taste and produce way more thc then hps if u take it to the lab same strain one under led one under hps the one under led will test at 22% the one under hps will test at 16-17%... after 5 years of everyone studying the subject techs like growers... before everybody notice all the extra perks that come with led lights.... but only problem was yield... that problem has been fixed and can yield a better gpw then any hps lights... so if max gpw for hps is 1.6 and right now i can do 2.1gpw with leds... i imagine new lights will be able to do 3.0gpw to 4.0gpw.... but this i cannot confirm just my guess.... but i believe leds will get to that point for sure one day.... i think this year is the year but only those who understand how to grow and maximize efficienty with leds will rip the benefits for now.... then everyone will catch up.... aslong as u understand how to maximize your grow room setup and how to maximize your plants yield and use good yielding strain you will soon rip the benefits of led lights... remember i said it first... or i think lolll.... i havent looked at an hps light in 4 years..... i forget they exist already.... u will never find me using hps again... just no point... veg with led much better and now budding with led much better in every way even in yield and density. i could get same results of 50oz with casey jone and chronic in 4x4 with 1000w hps... but with led i only need 700 watts or maybe even 600watt or less like bml leds or with new technology coming out who.... i never read much about them because they too expensive but i hear it uses very low watt for big big big yield... this is what i do just not at their extent very affordable way a bit more what not as energy efficient but unless u are commercial grower its a waste of money.... so i think i cover everything about leds and how to get 2gpw and its not a myth is just led is better then hps and when all in synch to maximize u can get 2gpw or more.... dont forget hps can do 1.6 gpw when all in synch to maximize... so nothing hard to believe here....
Click to expand...

Wow this is the biggest sentence I've ever read...must have been grown under led.
Ok I might have skimmed a little...
 
OK dropout


You hate indica (I could not believe the HIV comment) yet you grow it? (I personally think you are all bullshit and most likely an LED salesman having fun) You are growing hybrids with Chronic a dominant indica and Casey Jones is 1/3 indica.

Let's look at these magic strains. Look at yield x grow area ... and read about the plant characteristics.

Chronic

Recommended vegetative growth time clones: 7 - 10 days
Recommended number of clones per squaremeter: 12-15
Recommended vegetative growth time seedlings: 4-5 weeks
Recommended number of seedlings per squaremeter: 9
Indoor flowering time: 56 - 63 Days
Indoor yield: 350 - 600 gr/m2
Outdoor/Greenhouse harvest time: mid/late October

If grown well, Casey Jones can produce a very high yield with enormous top buds the size of your forearm. Growers are advised to allow plenty of room for these amazing plants. Our Casey is not shy to take over the room! Make sure to leave ample space between each plant in order to give them the chance to flourish. Casey Jones will grow fairly high if allowed.

Hmmm I call bullshit (If either seed company wishes to sponsor me I have a wide variety of lighting to experiment with) If I am sponsored I will call your BS

What kind of lights are you selling?
 
Hey Buckshot! Thanks for giving both barrels there. I was starting to think that this guy is waaay too single issue focused so I'm with you. But what the heck do I know? I'm an old guy I have been growing indoors under 12 candle candelabras for like 150 years.......which by the way.... beeswax candles far out perform plain old wax candles as far as lumens produced...... red blue balanced wavelengths and PAR. The best part about them is that after you grow your weed they also light your joint for you. Let's see those new fangled LEDs do that!
 
You scare me Buck.. To many times I've come to say and you've already written it...
 
:rofl: Weasel :high-five:......:passitleft:
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey Buckshot! Thanks for giving both barrels there. I was starting to think that this guy is waaay too single issue focused so I'm with you. But what the heck do I know? I'm an old guy I have been growing indoors under 12 candle candelabras for like 150 years.......which by the way.... beeswax candles far out perform plain old wax candles as far as lumens produced...... red blue balanced wavelengths and PAR. The best part about them is that after you grow your weed they also light your joint for you. Let's see those new fangled LEDs do that!
Click to expand...

I still use some of those candelabras. I have to disagree though. I have used some of the newest wax candles and can grow a pound under each one. I am the wax master of the universe you know :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
GrizzWald said:
You scare me Buck.. To many times I've come to say and you've already written it...
Click to expand...

:cheesygrinsmiley: I call people when they think about me too :cheesygrinsmiley:

OttawaGreen said:
Alright I think we've all joked enough right? Let's just let him show us or not in the upcoming journal. I will check it out to see what happens.

Good luck to everyone increasing yield regardless of technology.
Click to expand...

Nah, I might just be getting started...

uptheholler2 said:
Hey Buck! With those wax candles do you have to mix the red ones and blue ones different when you are vegging and flowering?
Click to expand...

You want the secrets? They really are obsolete but if you put a 1:1 red, blue you will harvest one week earlier. It will cost you double in candles but it is well worth it... Wax Master of the Universe (I stood up and made a superhero pose after I wrote that)
 
I had a picture of you between turntables with cape and tights....
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey Buckshot! Thanks for giving both barrels there. I was starting to think that this guy is waaay too single issue focused so I'm with you. But what the heck do I know? I'm an old guy I have been growing indoors under 12 candle candelabras for like 150 years.......which by the way.... beeswax candles far out perform plain old wax candles as far as lumens produced...... red blue balanced wavelengths and PAR. The best part about them is that after you grow your weed they also light your joint for you. Let's see those new fangled LEDs do that!
Click to expand...
What you use the candles too ,"nobody else does this" (thinks he invented topping) Lmfao
 
uptheholler2 said:
Hey Dropout! Boy you really seem to take this stuff personally. Chillax a second and listen to yourself. You think I repeated what you said but I in no way parroted your thoughts. You continue to talk about "strains" as if they are true breeding hybrids. They simply are not you need to go to an actual library...not the internet and do some hard studying on the difference. It starts with the genetic stability and ends with the consistency of harvest expectations. You keep falling back on the PAR argument. Why? What gain have LED's made in par over the old time method of dropping cool tubes into the canopy. Sir I must say that you are nothing but a broken record now constantly taking jabs at peoples comments and then saying that " you said that" when they make a point. Listen I can tell that you have a great passion and love for growing weed. For that I commend you and wish you well. But your constant assertion of harvest totals shows me that your experience from a practical standpoint is limited at best. I believe that you could be and may be, a very good grower but your single mindedness on this one issue will limit your abilities in the future. By the way I just purchased a 1200 watt LED panel to begin experimenting with in my new room. I will be comparing this with the HPS/MH 1000 watt units that I always run with. You need to go get actually educated in the basics of plant physiology and botany. Then I would suggest some practical study and experience in the field of horticulture. This needs to be done outside just the world of weed plants and encompass other crops. What you will learn will allow you to understand the difference between what you have been repeating over and over and the absolute undisputable points that I have been trying to put across. In closing, I believe that you have been making your point quite well in English.....fully understandable...just not fully believable in any language....because it starts with the difference between a Hybrid and a Strain! Best of luck in all you grow!
Click to expand...

Cool but understand 1200watt led is not what it draws from the wall... you should of grabbed 3 400w leds or 2 600watt leds... one led light dont have good coverage.... when i talk about par i talk about ppfd photons received to the plants in miliseconds in 4x4 footprint... this is what matters with leds not lumens... im not gonna sit here and defend anything just bring you information so you can think what you want about me.. but my only goal is to help people understand growing with leds is easier... the chance of harvesting 1gpw is better with leds then with hps... and 2.0 gpw as been done... any beginner with proper setup can do 1gpw now with leds... and pro grower can do 2.0gpw or very close.... im not here to argue im here to share my awesome experience with leds and certain strains... back then i didnt know much about strains and still know vaguely... i only grow c99 strawberry cough and grand daddy purple... i know grand daddy is indica... but it dont feel like crack... make me very relaxed take away the stress and goes away clean no downer like hard drugs.... all these kush give me downer like hard drugs... or wake up feeling lazy.... gdp dont do that... c99 and sc is my favorites... i dont go for highest yield i go for what is good for me main reason why i grow... too much indica in street stuff....
 
Buckshot said:
OK dropout


You hate indica (I could not believe the HIV comment) yet you grow it? (I personally think you are all bullshit and most likely an LED salesman having fun) You are growing hybrids with Chronic a dominant indica and Casey Jones is 1/3 indica.

Let's look at these magic strains. Look at yield x grow area ... and read about the plant characteristics.

Chronic

Recommended vegetative growth time clones: 7 - 10 days
Recommended number of clones per squaremeter: 12-15
Recommended vegetative growth time seedlings: 4-5 weeks
Recommended number of seedlings per squaremeter: 9
Indoor flowering time: 56 - 63 Days
Indoor yield: 350 - 600 gr/m2
Outdoor/Greenhouse harvest time: mid/late October

If grown well, Casey Jones can produce a very high yield with enormous top buds the size of your forearm. Growers are advised to allow plenty of room for these amazing plants. Our Casey is not shy to take over the room! Make sure to leave ample space between each plant in order to give them the chance to flourish. Casey Jones will grow fairly high if allowed.

Hmmm I call bullshit (If either seed company wishes to sponsor me I have a wide variety of lighting to experiment with) If I am sponsored I will call your BS

What kind of lights are you selling?
Click to expand...

uptheholler said i read about strains but i never read this before... its not bullshit i grow the strain in yield the most... but i never pay attention to what breeder say they lie so much... i try to go by peoples experience.. if best pheno is 1:3 1:4 then i buy those seeds... if not they can keep there bullshit 1:8 1:12.... only stable strains are worth it... casey jones is pretty stable in phenotypes... btw i dont sell lights and only grow for me and my friends... im letting you know whats the best out there... thinks its funny... good laugh loll.... i bet i laugh last..
 
Dropout said:
uptheholler said i read about strains but i never read this before... its not bullshit i grow the strain in yield the most... but i never pay attention to what breeder say they lie so much... i try to go by peoples experience.. if best pheno is 1:3 1:4 then i buy those seeds... if not they can keep there bullshit 1:8 1:12.... only stable strains are worth it... casey jones is pretty stable in phenotypes... btw i dont sell lights and only grow for me and my friends... im letting you know whats the best out there... thinks its funny... good laugh loll.... i bet i laugh last..
Click to expand...

Look I have been wrong before... I thought James the Green was a bullshit artist and he showed me some of the best outdoor plants I have ever seen. I could be wrong about you too. I don't have those strains and I don't grow in water so you are going to have to show us. If I don't see and join your journal please invite me.

You are right that seed folks usually embellish on their product. The Chronic folks say that on the high side you might expect 22 oz per square meter, so if you add another foot you should be able to pull 30 oz. That is 1.8 oz per sq ft. I find this reasonable to expect. You claim to be able to almost double the vendors highest suggested expectations with an additional 1.2 oz per sq ft. If can do this and prove it, you will get a public apology from me.
 
I hope someday everyone realizes that 99% of the LED panels people buy are made in... that's right. PRC!
Then some classy local business jacks you up at %400 cost so you can take home some "new tech".

People buy 1200 "watt" LEDs but it's just a panel that consumes 600 real at the socket and they paid something outright crazy like... 1200$ for one panel.
I run LED 5000K, it's a full spectrum light. But I haven't thrown away my CMH, that is coming out this week as I go to 1212.
Nothing wrong with 150W of CMH to go with some "full spectrum" LED.
:bongrip:
This debate will continue for another year at least I believe...

Vlad
 
Buckshot said:
Look I have been wrong before... I thought James the Green was a bullshit artist and he showed me some of the best outdoor plants I have ever seen. I could be wrong about you too. I don't have those strains and I don't grow in water so you are going to have to show us. If I don't see and join your journal please invite me.

You are right that seed folks usually embellish on their product. The Chronic folks say that on the high side you might expect 22 oz per square meter, so if you add another foot you should be able to pull 30 oz. That is 1.8 oz per sq ft. I find this reasonable to expect. You claim to be able to almost double the vendors highest suggested expectations with an additional 1.2 oz per sq ft. If can do this and prove it, you will get a public apology from me.
Click to expand...

I dont need apology i completely understand your doubts.... when you dont try something you dont know until everyone makes it obvious... i get that.... and dont listen to breeders pack listen to your phenos you grow... breeder pack talks about 1 pheno in many lol.... so breeder pack means nothing read reviews of strain from peoples grow... when they talk about few phenos out of 10 pack go for those seeds.... this is much better way to actually grow what u want to grow... all breeders not equal so find out which breeder pack is most stable.... and btw nature and mathematics is 2 different things.... i always wrong in my maths... never do my maths equate to nature always fail...
 
Dropout:
If you can't produce any pictures, whatever you say you did, never happened... Bottom line, it's all talk and no show... It's not a whole damned journal i'm saying you should do, just a few pics of the grow space and your lights, and a little information on the grow... I'll try to imagine it's filled with what you say you can produce......
I can imagine 2 ozs per sq. ft. of screen.. Wait a minute, i don't have to imagine that, that's whats i got on my last grow... Admittedly it was only 3 sq. feet of screen..... One clone, 4 weeks veg, 70 days flower... It wasn't totally led for the entire grow... I switched to a 315 lec the last month... I don't think changing lights helped that much... The point is, if i hadn't posted the pics in the journal to back that up, hell everyone here would consider me some kind of, well some kind of dropout, or worse...
Every thing you claim may be possible.. Maybe.. But it would take someone more skilled than you or i... And probably the blessing of some unknown, benevolent God...
 

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