LED vs HID - did both - here's what I know

[Kusharella]

I invested in a nice LED light from a well known popular company (sponsor here). I was able to benefit from this light for 18 months and was totally and completely SOLD on LED.

Till half the panel died and I learned the REALITY of LED.

No matter how great the company, or how boastful they are of their product and reputation, the truth is, if you spend LED $$$$$$$$ and lose - you'd better be in a position to spend more LED $$$$$$$$ to stay in the game. Chances are, your reputable LED dealer will not honor the warranty. There WILL be a reason they can blame you and use that allegation to nullify your warranty, but offer you a discount on a NEWER BETTER THAN EVER unit that cost over 600.00.

This is fine when you are a commercial grower. Cost of business right? You can work hundreds into your budget, knowing these LEDs do not actually last beyond a couple of years use. You can afford to replace your LED every couple of years.

If you aren't this type of grower - and fall anywhere below the financial threshold of (no big deal) buying new LED lights when your not yet old panel dies ............. then you're better to stick with HID.

BOTH create fabulous product, but only the growers with cash to spare (most likely from commercial sales of their product) can afford to get into the LED game. Those who have to "save up" for LEDs are better off sticking with the less expensive alternative of HID until these overpriced LEDs come down.

Like the 1980s when VCRs could not be had for under 750.00 a unit ............... LEDs will one day, follow suit.

Make no mistake. LEDs will grow you kickass nugs. As kickass as an HID system. They cost less in electricity, up to 30%, but they cost 300% more to replace if something fails in the unit. Those numbers price personal growers, not selling their product, out of the LED game. I got into the game, after saving up for over a year, and enjoyed over a year of LED results. I don't regret it. I would not have known the truth unless I did it this way. Nobody would have told me, and certainly NO LED COMPANY will admit their business plan regarding warranties. Some secrets you just can't learn unless you get screwed. I can't blame the LED companies. I'm a capitalist at heart too, so why the hell NOT make as much $$$$$$$$$ as you can while the price of your product remains over 100% above the alternative? I get it. Really. Make as much as you can. In five years, you'll need a new strategy.

Till then - I'm happy to remain in the pauper pool - creating fat nugs under HPS.

 

[Gushers]

Wow id really like to know which LED company this is and whats the easy reason for nulling the warranty? Def not gonna buy from them.

 

[Dave Groomer]

I am not sure I agree. For example, you can get a Mars-Hydro LED for as little as $100. They grow great plants. I had an issue with one of my lights and they have taken care of it under warranty. I am very happy with my LEDs in fact I just invested in another one. The savings on electricity and the fact that I have no heat issues were the main reason I went with LED. There are many people on this site that are using "Less expensive" LEDs with great success!! Just my humble opinion.

 

[iamcyclopseat]

Based on his previous posts, it seems he had an Advanced LED but dont take that as fact. Just assuming based on his previous post about the 180w ALED.

 

[wizgrow]

Wow - I agree with everyone

If the warranty is needed and holds true; good stuff! Realistically I don't count on long term warranties from recently developed businesses though. One of the main reasons I went the cheaper end for my original purchases and luckily all still holding up. Damn shame though if you get a better warranty from China than the USA though.

 

[Antics]

I'm using almost the cheapest LED available among all the sponsors, and it's been great so far. Not even a hiccup.

$105 spent, cheaper than a good CFL setup, uses way less power, produces less heat, and produces more growth. I have no regrets, and no complaints.

 

[zero244]

I think at this point we are talking unknowns. I own several LED lamps and I haven’t owned any of them past their warranty period. So I have no idea what the life span is on these lights, since none of them even existed 5 years ago. We’ve been using HID for decades, but virtually all of these LED lights have only been available 3 years. Depending on how long my lights last I may not replace them.
As far as pricing they are very expensive, but I am not sure they will ever be as cheap as HID.

 

[lushgreen]

I'm using almost the cheapest LED available among all the sponsors, and it's been great so far. Not even a hiccup.

$105 spent, cheaper than a good CFL setup, uses way less power, produces less heat, and produces more growth. I have no regrets, and no complaints.

Seriously? You haven't even completed one grow (1 tiny plant) with your new LED panel.

 

[Antics]

Seriously? You haven't even completed one grow (1 tiny plant) with your new LED panel.

I am comparing results observed so far. I'm not comparing estimated yield of my current grow, to what my previous yield was. That comparison will obviously come later once I harvest and dry the plant from my current grow.

I don't need to see a grow all the way to harvest, to see a difference in Veg growth, node distance, root growth, or bud size at the same length of time in flower.

I also don't need to complete this grow to compare the total power used by the different types of lights, cost of the LED panel vs. what I spent on CFLs, or a difference in temperature either.

The comparisons I've made so far are fair, and based on my experiences and observations. Nothing was guessed or estimated.

 

[ibaba]

LEDs are cheap, especially with a DIY option. My light costs me next to nothing and if any part goes it can be replaced easily

FULL SPECTRUM LED COB 100w (64x3w) $40
ARTIC COOLER CPU heatsink + fan $10
LED Driver 100w (20-40v 3.0A) $25

so per 75$ per 100w draw, not bad and very easy to put together without any soldering. Should any part break its easy to replace. Easy to add more light if you need.

 

[Kusharella]

Dang people. Only one response that even came close to the tone of (I hear ya). Everyone else took this as a challenge. Eeew.

There was no challenge intended. I know you're better. I know you can build cheaper. I know you think my opinions on this are small, unfounded, arrogant and cause to poke fun. And now that you have ................

Just wanted some relating from others who (might) feel like I do. Now they're afraid to speak up. Thanks. I owe ya

 

[Kusharella]

I am not really enamored with the idea of singling out LED companies here, either. The larger point is I'm not alone in having a warranty disqualified for erroneous reasons, and among the more popular companies, no one seems to engage in this more than another. Similar experiences happen with all the big LED companies, as I learned (after the fact) reading their stories.

In the beginning, LED companies had to struggle just to prove their product is as good or better than conventional grow lighting.

Now they have.

When their (retail - plug em in out of the box because I am not an LED DIYer) products that cost $ 600.00 today come down to half that price, I'll be back. But I can't afford to stay in the LED game right now. I know there has to be others who feel exactly the same about this.

In the end, today's LED technology is KICKASS. It's just too pricey for a chick who lives on tips.

 

[ibaba]

Dang people. Only one response that even came close to the tone of (I hear ya). Everyone else took this as a challenge. Eeew.

There was no challenge intended. I know you're better. I know you can build cheaper. I know you think my opinions on this are small, unfounded, arrogant and cause to poke fun. And now that you have ................

Just wanted some relating from others who (might) feel like I do. Now they're afraid to speak up. Thanks. I owe ya

Just differing opinions dependent on ones own experience. No one is challenging your point of view or experience, nor negating it! I totally understand how your experience of LED was somewhat negative; my point is that there are other ways to do it where you are much more in control, somewhat similar to bulbs, ballasts and hoods of HID light, where you are not a slave to a complete unit that could fail with a unknown warranty... for example I use a desktop pc after several laptops because I found it much easier to fix or upgrade if anything goes wrong. Peace

 

[zero244]

I haven’t run LED's long enough to tell if they are worth the money. I still use HID for certain things. The nice thing about HID is we know it works and if handled right they last a very long time. I don’t have to do closet grows so the heat advantage of LED's is not that important. The LED company's also know that if they fall short on quality and customer service that we growers can drop them and go back to HID. At this point I am not getting rid of my HID stuff.
Also I am not convinced that the LED lamps I have now will even last past the warranty period.
Time will tell!

 

[CoNerd]

I invested in a nice LED light from a well known popular company (sponsor here). I was able to benefit from this light for 18 months and was totally and completely SOLD on LED.

Till half the panel died and I learned the REALITY of LED.

[...] Chances are, your reputable LED dealer will not honor the warranty. There WILL be a reason they can blame you and use that allegation to nullify your warranty, but offer you a discount on a NEWER BETTER THAN EVER unit that cost over 600.00.
.

It's a bummer they won't help you get a fully working light for minimal cost, even if it was an act of god or you were to blame. Have they offered to help you figure out which part has gone bad and send replacement parts? The LED lights I purchased have connectors between the parts so some of them can easily be replaced in the field. If the problem is a bad circuit card, it's not as easy to repair.

Hopefully it's just a bad power supply which can easily be replaced, so I advise you to get what you can out of your investment and try to repair the light.

Unfortunately, most people get to experience your pain, especially if they buy the latest, high performance stuff.
It's pretty easy for companies to weasel out of a warranty by claiming a summer storm that caused your power to blink off and back on was the cause of the fault. I've never had much luck with warranties on electronics after the initial 90 day period. That's why all the retailers want to sell you additional coverage.

 

[epsilon]

As a recent victim to an LED light dieing right outside of its warranty, I have to agree that you need to be careful. That said, I really enjoyed that light while it lasted and since it provided effortless quality light for as long as it did I will probably go that route again in the future. That said, there is something to be said about DIYing a quality light panel as you'll have the ability to customize it for your use and it shouldn't be difficult to repair if something does go bad. My lightfor example, both drivers are still good, one string of LEDs is still good while the other one is bad. Unfortunately, because it's a pre-bought(built) production model, it's difficult to pinpoint the exact point of failure and hence repair.

Note I'm new around here and my light was used on a salt water fish tank. Simply doing my homework before I embark in this new hobby. As such I can't say I know nearly enough about LEDs in regards to cultivation...

 

[xtrchessreal]

I am researching to build a unit myself. I am using the same caution I use when considering and upgrade from MS(Win-all) I don't accept being a guinea pig for the research and development benefits to go to a corporation. These are diodes plain and simple with the exception of temp considerations.

 

[Pantar]

Im trying to make my own LED too, maybe we can help each other.

 

[epsilon]

Hey guys, was doing some digging and found a newer company that had some pretty incredibly looking diy led pucks aimed at full spectrum use. Plus, each channel is completely controllable so we would easily be able to modify the spectrum if needed from veg to flower. They are a bit pricy but anything of value or quality usually is. Google reef LED LAB and check them out. I especially like the little spectrum simulator they have on the product description page that allows you to manipulate the output spectrum. Probably not for the casual grower but then again you could probably build a pendent large enough to cover a tent for maybe $500? Idk I'm just throwing out numbers...

 

[xtrchessreal]

From my research so far CREE makes perhaps the most reliable high power LEDs. The problem for me is going to be building a constant current power supply. I have found some info on this. Most systems that are failing out there are blowing the power supply and they are using some pre-manufactured LED driver aka (constant current) power source. I am also not sure on the 50,000 hr claim for the LED yet. All of these brands are making claims that none can actually do as far as the life expectancy. The key will be designing high power LEDs to run at their lowest power output and put a bunch of them together with a heavy duty power driver running very low output as well. In other words over-size the power source and under use the LED output. Its too early in my opinion to trust a word from any claim about life expectancy. The science concerning the spectrum is sound and people are getting good grows. The price is too high for me right now.